Reloading Military Surplus Calibers "Buying Dies"

[1911crazy]

With my boxer primer cases starting to add up I decieded to start looking at new dies in military surplus calibers.  I was first looking at the French MAS 7.5x54 in the RCBS dies to go with my rock chucker.  I found out their priced at $49 so it wasn't really cost effective to start buying all the dies needed to reload them all.  But them I found out that LEE Dies fit the RCBS press and the LEE Dies at MIDWAY in 7.5 x 54 French was $20.53 w/shell holder & powder measure cup too.  Thats a far cry from $49?  Then i found other calibers in Lee Dies like the 8x57 mauser($9.89),  6.5x55 swede($9.89),  308win. ($9.89) and 7x57 mauser the more expensive die set $19.97 w/powder measure cup & shell holder.  I wasn't planning on reloading but with the cheap cost of dies i'm not pushed too. So I even bought dies for my 338win mag too and i'm still under $100.
I'll still buy cheap new ammo and reload it if its boxer primed.
                                                              Frugal    BigBill

[Robert357]

Bill

Slow down a little.  I think you may not have read things carefully enough.   Yes the Lee dies fit other presses (I have a Lyman Orange Crush and Turret press and lots of Lee Dies).

The Lee die sets that Midway sells for about $10 are the 2-die sets with no shell holder, no reloading information, no powder dipper and NO FACTORY CRIMP DIE.

Considering that many shell holders will be similar among military surplus rounds, (7x57, 8x57, 30-06, 7.7 japanese) you might or might not need a shell holder, depending upon what you already own.

Similarly, the powder dipper and load data aren't a big deal for the reduced price.

Now the question comes, is it worth the money for the Factory Crimp Die.

Personally I like the Factory Crimp die and find it darn near mandatory for semi-auto & lever action rifles.

Since most of what you rattled off are probably bolt actions, that don't really require a crimp, the Lee 2-die set could be a good deal.  If any are semi-auto, I would opt for the 3-die rifle set with shell holder.

Actually, I will give you one final thing to consider for some that have really really expensive or hard to get boxer brass.

Also get a Classic Lee Loader (yes, the hammer reloading thing) for about $15 with your two-die set (and a shell holder if you need it).  

Lately to reload for my MN 7.62x54 I have used a Lee Loader neck sizer (with a hammer) for the 7.62x54R along with a Lee universal depriming die and then my Lee bullet seating die.   After enough loads and a neck anealing, then it is time to do a full length resizing with a Lee sizing die.  This use of both the two die set and the Classic Lee Loader for bolt action military rifles should help extend brass life and work pretty slick for neck sizing.

I have been using the Classic Lee Loader for an MN1891/30 along with a set of Lee Dies and it is working out well.  It also speeds up the reloading process quite a bit.

I got the idea from .303 British at

 http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/Lee1.htm

Good luck and have fun!

[1911crazy]

The Die set came with the reloading guide and no specs but the 3 die set come with all the goodies.  It also said the bullet seating die will crimp if the bullet has a crimping groove by lowering the die 1/4 turn but won't crimp a bullet without the groove where the factory crimp die will.  My RCBS dies work the same way first you adjust the bullet depth then set the crimp where you want it to and it done then you run them.  If i don't like the way it works I'll just buy the factory crimp die too.                                                   BigBill

[1911crazy]

I just used my $10 dollar LEE 6.5x55 swede dies (2 die set) tonight and it does crimp like the rcbs dies do but it also depends on what brand of bullet cases your using too.  At first I was using Sellier & Bellot cases and the seem brittle and needed a harder crimp but my new remington cases needed less crimp and they went perfect.  So the softness of the brass matters too.  Its funny because all my Sellier & Bellot 7mm mauser cases went fine lastnite with no crimp problems at all with just using the seater die that crimps too I never had to use the third factory crimp die which crimps bullets with no groove too.                             BigBill

[Robert357]

I am glad it worked out for you.

I just purchased some new Lee dies from Midway, yesterday to go with a gun show purchase from Sunday..... Hopefully they will arrive in time so I can load some stuff up and go to the range next weekend.

Your post caused me to think hard about which die set to order, ....I really do like that Lee Factor Crimp die (even when it isn't required).....but the savings with the two die set were impressive.   It was a hard decision, and for a different firearm I might have opted for the 2 dies set.  Actually I have a couple of rifle loads that a 2 die set would have been better as I don't really use my crimp die anymore on them.

Thank you for sharing.

[1911crazy]

Why is the RCBS stuff so expensive???  Buying their stuff isn't so affordable like reload was many years ago when I started out.  Their higher prices kept me away from buy dies for surplups.  Now with the Lee 2 dis sets I bought every caliber I could wether I need it or not that was $9+.   I did buy a few 3 die sets because they had no 2 die sets but the cost still out weighs what the RCBS stuff would of cost me.   We all can be FRUGAL I like being FRUGAL because I have more cash to spend on other important things like surplups and ammo too.   I have probably reloaded more ammo in the past 3 weeks than I have done in many years of my stuff sitting idle.   I'm glad I helped others to be FRUGAL too!!!
                                                                         BigBill

[Robert357]

I have some RCBS dies, but like you say they are pretty pricey.  Where I try to buy RCBS dies, is where bullet seating is somehow magical.  For example in reloading target 357 Mag ammo, I prefer RCBS because they have special bullet seating stems for round nose, semi-wad cutter, and wadcutter.  The Lee die has a "one size fits all" bullet seating stem.  The Lee Bullet seater works well "most" of the time, but if I really am fussy, then I feel I get better depth control with the RCBS.

I also have RCBS dies for my 30-06 as I like to really load it like a tack driver.

My milsurp is "hunting accurate +" and so the Lee is more than good enough.

But I agree with you on price.  I have a guy I work with that has two Japanese WWII rifles (7.7 & 6.5mm).  I have thought about reloading for him but the price on those dies from anybody but Lee, makes Norma loaded ammo seem reasonable.  Go figure!

[1911crazy]

I have a RBCS rockchucker with all RCBS dies, 30-06, 444 marlin, 45acp, 44mag, 357mag & 38spec. all of which i purchased in the early 70's when it was a lot cheaper.   But some of these prices of their dies I would need a loan to buy.  I just bought quite a bit of LEE stuff and I'm happy with the performance of them so far.  If the bullet has the crimping groove the two die set will crimp it and if the bullet doesn't have the crimping groove the LEE factory crimp die will crimp it without a groove too.  The best thing I just bout is those little LEE measuring cups.  I just ordered a set of them from Midway #943305  LEE Improved Powder Measure Kit for $5.  I use it for loading rifles close to the charge i want then use the powder trickler to bring it up to exactly where i want it to be.  Its faster than using the RCBS powder dispenser plus i don't like the crunch of the powder it does.  The measuring cups are faster when loading rifles.   Its a kit you have to have once you use one out of the 3 die set.   Trust me.           BigBill

Each one of my rifle rounds is exactly the same so exact you can call them sniper rounds.  If you want accuracy we have to be fussy on the powder charge.  And if the gun still isn't accurate or shooting tight groups like you want it to just drop back on the powder charge a little one grain at a time and it will tighten up groups without loosing much performance.  By dropping my charge in my '06 by 2 grains it tightened up the group from a silver dollar to a nickle sized group.

[1911crazy]

Some  more FRUGAL stuff!!!!  I found a LEE Auto Primer Pocket Cleaner #874770 for $1 each,  small primer pocket you turn with your finger # 305810  for $.50 each and the NRA mauser book that I heard has reloading specs for military rifles in it too # 807870 for $4.95 at Numrich Gun Parts.    I also found a TT30 Tokarev book there too.      BigBill

[ajj]

I'll share a couple of tips for those who don't get their kicks playing with brass. (I know a lot of people enjoy prepping and cleaning and fiddling with brass, just for its own sake, but it can get tiresome and most of what we do doesn't improve accuracy one bit, especially in iron sighted milsurps.)
Get the Lee collet die which squeezes the neck around a collet. Makes loading HP rifle rounds as easy as .38 special with carbide dies. No more lubing or de-lubing cases. Few bolt actions require crimping. I've loaded thousands of rounds this way for HP silhouette and if it gave up any accuracy I wouldn't do it.
The best approach to cleaning primer pockets is to not do it. I cleaned a lot of them before I saw the light. One of the famous benchresters quit cleaning primer pockets for a whole season and saw absolutely no effect on the (very high) accuracy of his rifle. If you enjoy these steps, great. I prefer shooting.

[S.S.]

I may have to get you to do my Christmas shopping next year Bill!
I might save a bunch of money by letting you do it!!!

[1911crazy]

I may have to get you to do my Christmas shopping next year Bill!
I might save a bunch of money by letting you do it!!!

S.Sumner  I was against reloading for quite sometime mainly because of cheap ammo but while some is berdan primed but some are box primed and reloadable and their piling up here too.  But when I found out that the cheaper LEE RGB Reloading Dies($9.89) fit my RCBS rock chucker instead of paying $25 up to $50+ for RCBS dies that sure made me look twice at reloading again.  Hey we can all save a buck right??  I'm on a fixed income and I have to get the most bang for my buck now.  BigBill

I'm also worried if  Kerry gets in he talked about a $50 handgun ammo tax but my feeling he may not stop there??  So its stock up time to be safe and this stuff maybe not so cheap again too!!!

My '93 7mm  chilean mauser varmit/deer rifle is finally done so what a better way to sight it in than with my very accurate reloads.  I loaded 140gr.  PSP  bullets for it.    I'm sure the 29" barrel will do it job if I do my part.  Now i have two guns to sight my 8mm 98k project gun too.

[Robert357]

While the Lee Collet die is a pretty nifty thing for just neck spacing, they don't make it for all mil-surp cartridges.  For example, they don't make it for my MN 1891/30 7.62x54R cartridge!  Lee does, make a $15 classic Lee Loader (yes, the hammer thing) for the 7.62x54R .

They also don't make the Collet die for the M1 Carbine or the 45/70 trapdoor, but there is a Lee Classic Loader for those cartridges.

As I discussed in an earlier thread on this post, the Lee Classic Loader can be used for headspacing when combined with a Lee 2 die set for just neck sizing.  It is an interesting approach proposed by .303 British at his website.  I have found that the price of necksizing dies by RCBS, Redding, etc are so much more in 7.62x54R than the Lee Classic Loader.  I have been necksizing my 7.62x54R to help lengthen brass life.

[1911crazy]

I just ordered the Lee Dies for 7.62x54($19.99) 3 die set,  303 Britt RGB($9.89) 2 dies set and the 7.62x25 Tokarev 3 die set($18.98)  the RCBS Tokarev Die set was over $100?? Go figure.                 BigBill

[1911crazy]

If you reload for 38spec or 357mag and use JHP's check this out;
 Midway has "mag tech"  bullets  158gr.  JHP  100 for $6.

And mag-tech bullets in  44cal  240gr  "JSP"  100 for $6 too.  (444 marlin) So why shoot your 44mag. JHP at paper targets when you can shoot this stuff and carry JHP's??

I just recieved them and they look great, I waited to see them before I post about them because the price just don't sound right but they are awesome!!!     Lets all get the most bang for our buck!!!!!

Also at "northwest loading" checkout their prices on 38cal & 44cal SWC lead bullets and 30cal  150 FMJ pulled bullets from military rounds I just recieved them too and there awesome too.  They have great prices on other bullets too.

                       GOOD SHOOTING  &  RELOADING TOO YA!!!!

                              VERY, VERY  FRUGAL  BIGBILL

With my remington 338win.mag.  using winchester ammo and putting two bullets thru the same hole I was wondering if the winchester bullets would be more accurate in my swede & 7mm mauser than remington bullets since remington ammo isn't good for my 30-06 or 338 maybe the winchester bullets are better quality(balanced or concentric) there has to be a reason why my 338 shoots so good with it??  Midway sells both remington and winchester bullets for reloading all the other bullets are just out of sight just like the RCBS stuff and my 338 bullets some are $50 for 50???  I'm shooting some GOOD eaten steaks out my barrel??? I just can't do that??   I'll go $20 for 100 bullets for my 338 thats most I'll spend.
I have my limits remember I'm frugal!!! (kidding)

[1911crazy]

I may have to get you to do my Christmas shopping next year Bill!
I might save a bunch of money by letting you do it!!!

So what are you looking for??  Lets Christmas shop early and beat the rush??                                                      BigBill

I'm getting nothing for christmas so the misses tells me!!!