Author Topic: TC-H&R comparison  (Read 3793 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ratherbefishin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 680
TC-H&R comparison
« on: May 14, 2004, 09:42:29 AM »
I don't own a H&R[yet] I do have an old single shot break open Savage 30-30 with a peep site- and a very nice little gun it is.I also own a Ruger single shot falling block as well as a  Hawkin muzzleloader- so I'm a fan of single shot- they tend to be simpler.
 So- could anyone descibe the basic diference between the TC  rifle action and the H&R action?Are they similar to my old Savage single?

Offline Winter Hawk

  • Trade Count: (47)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1947
  • Gender: Male
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2004, 11:27:29 AM »
The NEF/H&R is a break open action, probably similar in appearance to your Savage.  It has a hammer with a transfer bar safety.  To buy extra barrels (and there are a bunch of different calibers/gauges available) you have to send the action in to the company to get them fitted.  Check out the web site at http://www.hr1871.com/ and order the catalog.

Hope this helps.
-WH-
"All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse and a good wife." - D. Boone

Offline mitchell

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2067
  • Gender: Male
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2004, 12:18:14 PM »
IMHO there is and only two things better with the Tc's you can get magnums and you don't have to send the action back to get a barrel other then that they are praticly the same . there is really no difference in action , both are break open , both have hammers , both are great shooters, H&R's just cost a lot less.

my believe that a H&R will work just as fine as a Tc and be just as good of a shooter. if i need a magnum i'll get a savage , IMO there is no need for TC's. (but i'm also a H&R fan so look at both sides of the coin)
curiosity killed the cat , but i was lead suspect for a while

Offline ratherbefishin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 680
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2004, 01:02:09 PM »
well, if they ever got their actions so the barrels could be quickly changed that would be a real asset.I know my savage can accomodate a shotgun barrel, but I don't have one.
 I'm not so sure these rifles need magnums-the kick would be considerable.I simply shoot better with lighter recoil rifles-don't flinch

Offline Wlscott

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 987
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2004, 01:20:18 PM »
It's been touched on, but i'm going to mention it again.  The price difference between a TC and an H&R/NEF is probably the biggest difference.

A TC is going to run you between 500 and 600 dollars, while an H&R/NEF will set you back all of 200-250 bucks.

And, I really don't think you're any more likely to get a tack driver if you buy a TC than you are if you buy a H&R.
You haven't hunted......Until you've hunted the hunters

Offline ratherbefishin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 680
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2004, 01:38:02 PM »
Are you basically saying  a deer you killed with it wouldn't know if you paid $200  for an H&R, or $600 for a TC? I keep getting these memory flashbacks of my long departed dad who I once walked beside, telling me it didn't much matter how much I paid for the rifle,if I didn't hold it straight...

Offline Mitch in MI

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 748
    • http://www.sportsmenforkerryedwards.com/
Re: TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2004, 02:22:16 PM »
Quote from: ratherbefishin
well, if they ever got their actions so the barrels could be quickly changed that would be a real asset.


On the other hand, you could get an extra barrel for an Encore for $200+, while the same money would get you an entire extra handi-rifle with no waiting for the barrel to be fitted. As for the $600 original cost, I'd rather have three handis, or one handi with five barrels, than one Encore with one barrel.

Mitch

Offline JPH45

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1145
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2004, 02:46:19 PM »
That is why I traded my Encore off, a barrel cost as much as an NEF rifle. The Encore is a better feeling rifle in my opinion, but not $400.00 worth of better. The TC's have a great image, and a lot of recognition. Most folks can look at one and know what it is. The NEF however has a somewhat shaded image, probably because it is seen as a cheap entry level rifle. But few will argue with the groups the rifles are capable of. I do think the TC barrel and chambering dimensions are probably of a bit better quality than the the NEF, but again, $400.00 Worth????? I don't think so. I have had several Contender pistol and carbines over the years, and I had the Encore. Worked with and fed well the NEF's will shoot just as well as the TC's. Now, a set up from SSK or Bullberry would be an entirely different story, but at that point we are not talking stock rifles are we.

By the by, a barrel change on the NEF is as simple as removing the forearm screw, open the action, lift off the barrel, set the other barrel into the action, close the action, replace the forearm and screw. It is actually a little simplier than the TC, no silly cross pin to drift out or line up to drifle back in.
Boycott Natchez Shooters Supplies, Inc

Offline handirifle

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3570
    • http://www.handirifle.com
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2004, 03:00:16 PM »
No one seems to have mentioned one big factor.  It's kinda a cool one.  I don't own a TC but the fact that the hammer can be rotated to fire rimfire or centerfire from the same receiver is a big issue.  True, one can easily buy an H&R rimfire for a low price, but nicer to just have one receiver for all.

Other than that, I do not know.  I like the H&R and honestly do not hear all that much better comments on the TC as far as the accuracy dept. goes.
God, Family, and guns, in that order!

Offline Thomas Krupinski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2004, 03:24:57 PM »
I don't own any of the NEF/HR stuff, only T/C so I can't offer any comparison.

However I am wondering if you would be getting any different types of comments if you had posted this question over on either the Thompson Center Rifles or Thompson Center Handgun forums on this site?

Offline jeff223

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1284
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2004, 04:27:16 PM »
the lock up is nice and tight on the TC.the blueing is nicer and looks lots deeper.no pallet wood on the TC for a stock.good fit and finish on the TC.the inside of the frame is nice and clean when you get it.they are great guns for sure.i just got a new G2 Contender pistol and love it.

would i get rid of my NEFs?no way in H@!! would i do that.they are less money and do the job.i have quite a few of them now,rifles and shotguns and i hunt with them too.the NEFs are great guns too.you might have to tinker with them sometimes but they can be outstanding shooters.it seems like you must tinker with all brands of guns to make them shot good.thats the way it is

good luck

Offline Wlscott

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 987
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2004, 05:38:08 PM »
Hey, don't get me wrong.  I wanted an Encore really bad for a long time.  But owning and shooting my Ultra in .223 and 45-70 has pretty much tamped that down :grin:
You haven't hunted......Until you've hunted the hunters

Offline oneshotonekill

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 503
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2004, 12:52:19 AM »
T/C has better fit/finish, uses better materials and is built using CNC machines allowing for much tighter tolerances and interchangable barrels through out a model (no fitting of each barrel).  The firing pin selector that was mentioned is available on the contender and G2 but not on the encore.  Overall the T/C's look and feel like a higher quality firearm (IMO) but they are considerably more expensive.  I like the H&R's because they are inexpensive and I can tinker with them.  If I screw something up I'll send the action in for another barrel.  Some of the H&R barrels I have are real shooters, others are not.  All of my T/C's have been shooters right out of the box so the "tinker factor" has been eliminated since they shoot as good as I can there's no reason to tinker with them.  Both companies stand behind their product so if you have problems it should be corrected under warranty.  For the $$ you could set up an H&R and a couple extra barrels for what you would pay for the T/C.

Offline Mitch in MI

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 748
    • http://www.sportsmenforkerryedwards.com/
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2004, 10:24:59 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Krupinski
I am wondering if you would be getting any different types of comments if you had posted this question over on either the Thompson Center Rifles or Thompson Center Handgun forums on this site?


That might be interesting, as there is always a hint of "mine is better" even when we try to be unbiased. Sometimes it is best to do some reading on both forums and make note of the problems mentioned there. T/C is not without its problems, there seem to be a few barrels with excessive headspace and/or poor crowns:
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=32646
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=33145

Offline Thomas Krupinski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2004, 12:00:16 PM »
I am not trying to put down any products.  But it just seems that when you ask for a comparison on a location that is named for one of the items being compared, you may be receiving slightly biased comments.  

Maybe the moderator of this forum would consider moving it over to the others just to see what is said.  You might get replies from a different frame of reference.

Offline Maine Woods

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 105
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2004, 12:25:21 PM »
I own both and enjoy both equally. The T/C is allot easyer on the eyes but they both shoot great . The trigger on my handy is very good, my T/C trigger is the envey of many. ( I am sure both have been tuned but not by me ) The handy rifle ejects cases sometimes that important. everything else has been covered. Good luck have fun.

Offline Mac11700

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6875
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2004, 05:23:07 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Krupinski
I am not trying to put down any products.  But it just seems that when you ask for a comparison on a location that is named for one of the items being compared, you may be receiving slightly biased comments.  

Maybe the moderator of this forum would consider moving it over to the others just to see what is said.  You might get replies from a different frame of reference.


I don't see the need to move the thread to the TC forum as yet..Ratherbefishin ask for a comparison of the 2 differnt rifles here and he is getting some overviews from people that have owned them and shot them...if he wants to he can always ask for the same there,for their veiwpoints....

For the money spent...you can't really get a more versital rifle than the Handi...howevever one of the main detractions of it is that you cannot readily get custom barrels for it as you can for the TC or Encore...there are a few who supposedly can make custom barrels for the Handi...but as of yet I haven't seen any first hand...and as others have already said here...you can get a complete rifle in another caliber for the price of the custom TC or Encore barrel..The other detraction to the Handi for some...is the lack of magnum calibers...or NEF's lack of concern for putting out normal calibers or continuing producing some of  the more popular calibers...

All in all...they are great little rifles capable of outstanding accuracy (in some cases) and give good value for the money spent...what's not to like about that?

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Thomas Krupinski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2004, 05:46:57 AM »
Quote
All in all...they are great little rifles capable of outstanding accuracy (in some cases) and give good value for the money spent...what's not to like about that?


I don't doubt that, but what I am wondering is just from what perspective the replies are coming from.  Over on the T/C handgun and handgun forums there are lots of threads knocking various percieved deficenies on those products as well as praises.  

If someone moved up to the Thompson Center Encore or Contender and were no longer interested in the NEF/H&R product line to look on this forum, would their comments be any different or cover other aspects not mentioned here?  

Now I am happy with the T/C products that I have and don't have a need to try the NEF/H&R products, but I don't have anything either positive or negative to comment about them.

Offline Mac11700

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6875
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2004, 08:08:55 AM »
Again...he ask for and has recieved various comments...wouldn't it be up to him as to ask the same there,it is after all... his post... and it is ok to ask what he has here.He or you are free to ask that question  on that forum...with out the need to move this one from here there.

As far as what perspective the replies are coming from...I think that is pretty self evident since several have owned or shot both...and as to it being biased...welll...I suppose that may be true to a small degree...for personal preference is always subjective to the person giving the opinion...but not nessasaraly here on this forum...we all try to give honest opinions based on facts...now don't we guys....:grin:

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Thomas Krupinski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2004, 09:44:32 AM »
I am not about to put one out over there requesting such a comparison because I really don't care that much about that product.  There are people who enjoy high end firearms and there are people who enjoy utility guns.  Same for lots of things, an each has it's role.

My only point is that if it makes you boys happy to point out the virtues of that system, I think that's good for you.  Now everyone enjoys positive reinforcement for their purchasing decisions.  If the fellow was looking for balance comparisons, I was suggesting he could also be looking elsewhere.  We have no shortage of forums here on this site, and much of what is said can easily go into more than one.

Offline ratherbefishin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 680
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2004, 02:06:38 PM »
I asked mainly because I wanted to know if there was any significant diferance in the action.I have an old  Savage 219 30-30 and am looking for something similar.It handles and carries nicely.Sure I;d like a TC, it looks classy- but I'm looking for a hunting rifle , not a show piece.I already own a Ruger single shot in 270- with a very nice  stock[ I take thatout on nice sunny days] But on rainy days it stays in the case- and I shoot my deer the utility guns- stuff I don;t worry about geting the odd ding in.That's the sort of gun I'm looking for- a functional rifle ,reasonably accurate, not a show piece.
And- I appreciate all the feedback

Offline Mac11700

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6875
Re: TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2004, 06:37:53 PM »
Quote from: ratherbefishin
I asked mainly because I wanted to know if there was any significant diferance in the action.I have an old  Savage 219 30-30 and am looking for something similar.It handles and carries nicely.Sure I;d like a TC, it looks classy- but I'm looking for a hunting rifle , not a show piece.I already own a Ruger single shot in 270- with a very nice  stock[ I take thatout on nice sunny days] But on rainy days it stays in the case- and I shoot my deer the utility guns- stuff I don;t worry about geting the odd ding in.That's the sort of gun I'm looking for- a functional rifle ,reasonably accurate, not a show piece.
And- I appreciate all the feedback


Don't get me wrong...as far as the TC's...they are great ...and you don't have to get a high end walnut stock to take out on those nasty days either...it has a lot of add -ons from different stocks and some awsome cartridges to shoot with it,with all the different barrels you can get...as far as shooting utility guns.....well they do in fact have their place..and as you can see by the traffic on this forum...a significant place at that..

Thomas...since you don't have anything positive or negative to say about them...
Quote
Now I am happy with the T/C products that I have and don't have a need to try the NEF/H&R products, but I don't have anything either positive or negative to comment about them
then you say this......
Quote
I am not about to put one out over there requesting such a comparison because I really don't care that much about that product.
...what is it that you don't care about them...since you apparently haven't tried one of them?????????


Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Thomas Krupinski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2004, 03:17:01 AM »
Quote
Quote:
I am not about to put one out over there requesting such a comparison because I really don't care that much about that product.
...what is it that you don't care about them...since you apparently haven't tried one of them?????????

Mac,  

It seems to me that there isn't any need that I have that could be potentially filled by them that I don't already have covered in spades by Contenders, Encores, Hawkens, Renegades and a bunch of other models by other manufactures.  

I am not trying to knock them, I was a little curious but just not that interested.  Now if I didn't already have them, I would be looking with greater interest.

If their nitch is a low investment tool for hard use and less regret when damaged, I have picked up used Thompson Center products that already have the exterior scratches and rust pitting, but good bores.  They make excellent canidates for rugged use situations and the additional scratches and exterior badges don't show the new arrivals with much pain.

But the big thing I like is the easily changed frames.  I like my triggers on the light side and crisp.  After the trigger jobs are done it is easier to stay used to a couple of triggers than try to get a whole bunch the same.  Same goes for stocks and grips, but I guess those are also easily interchangable on the H&R products.

It just seem that the logic of the location of the original questions was a leading question.  If someone was to take a step down in cost of a product, their comments, reasons and considerations may be different than someone who takes a step up in product.

Offline ratherbefishin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 680
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2004, 04:02:46 AM »
My original question was''could anyone describe the basic diferance in the action between the TC and H&R''
 I am trying to decide what is the best value for my requirements- a utility hunting weapon.For that my criteria will be probably include a simple and reliable action[ no point in being way out in the bush and have a malfunction]reasonable accuracy[ I don't need 1'' groups at 100 yards- matter fact, 3'' would be just fine-under  hunting situations] a stainless or other such alloy barrel and action[ it rains a lot in the Pacific North west] and a synthetic stock[my wood stocked ruger satisfies my ego]
 So- that's it-reliable, reasonable accuracy,functional,and if I had one more- carryability-it must balance nicely in my hand for walking.That was the reaon for the original question

Offline scruffy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 526
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2004, 04:37:18 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Krupinski

If their nitch is a low investment tool for hard use and less regret when damaged, I have picked up used Thompson Center products that already have the exterior scratches and rust pitting, but good bores.  They make excellent canidates for rugged use situations and the additional scratches and exterior badges don't show the new arrivals with much pain.


Thomas, I've never seen a $200 TC Encore, but I bet it would be really beat up.  I also don't agree with your comments on a step down verses a step up in a firearms purchase.  Would I take my expensive 4x4 suv out to ram through the brush and mud.  It'll do it, but why???  I've paid alot of money to get it, why beat it up?  I use my old truck for ramming around through the mud and leave the expensive suv at home.

Quote from: Thomas Krupinski

But the big thing I like is the easily changed frames.  I like my triggers on the light side and crisp.  After the trigger jobs are done it is easier to stay used to a couple of triggers than try to get a whole bunch the same.  Same goes for stocks and grips, but I guess those are also easily interchangable on the H&R products.


Incase you didn't know, you can have as many barrels fitted to the nef rifle frame as you want.  Yes, you have to send the rifle back to NEF, but postage is cheaper than the markup TC charges on their stuff.  Shotgun barrels range $39 to $93, rifles range from $82 to $109.

Quote from: Thomas Krupinski

It just seem that the logic of the location of the original questions was a leading question.  If someone was to take a step down in cost of a product, their comments, reasons and considerations may be different than someone who takes a step up in product.


As far as a step up, my first centerfire rifle was a Weatherby, so in your eyes every rifle I've bought since then is a step down.  A rifle being a "step up" doen't make it better.  If so I never would have bought, nor will buy, another rifle and that's just not the case.  In reality I've spend more time hunting per year with my nef's, both rifle and shotgun, than I do with the remingtons, ruger, browning, winchester, weatherby, and savage rifles and shotguns combined.  

And most people that own NEF's don't own just NEF's (actually I don't know anyone who just owns NEF's).  So posting a question on this forum is not "leading".  Since every make of gun made is owned by people on this forum there are many that can speak to the comparison of one make to another.  NEF vs REM 700, NEF vs Browning Abolt, etc.

Ultimately, if you want to hunt with an expensive suv, that's your choice.  Same goes with firearms.  If you want to hunt with a $200, $400, $600, $800, $1000+ rifle, that's your choice.  But in reality, the game you are pursuing won't know the difference.  It's between you and your wallet.

later,
scruffy
Hunting is 99% brain, 1% gun

Offline marv

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 575
The best for perpose
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2004, 04:44:29 AM »
I will give you my opinion, On the difference, I have never tried but
one T,C, I had nothing butm h--l with it. I have H&R-NEF's. Just got my first synthetic stock.  shoot it one time, I like it for knock about gun, think be very good in wet weather. I have had very good luck with H&R - NEF's.
If i was in your place i would got with NEf in the caliber I wanted. Try to get stainless barrel, action to if I could get it in thr right caliber.
Just my 2 1/2cents.  Marv.

Offline Thomas Krupinski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2004, 05:05:14 AM »
Quote
Thomas, I've never seen a $200 TC Encore, but I bet it would be really beat up. I also don't agree with your comments on a step down verses a step up in a firearms purchase. Would I take my expensive 4x4 suv out to ram through the brush and mud. It'll do it, but why??? I've paid alot of money to get it, why beat it up? I use my old truck for ramming around through the mud and leave the expensive suv at home.


You need to get out more on the different forums on this site.  I bought an really nice blue Encore in 209x50 muzzleloader configuration within the past few months from a fellow on the T/C classifieds section on this site.  I think I paid him $260 for that.  It already had a nice trigger job, finish was excellent.  The deals are there if you look.

Quote
Incase you didn't know, you can have as many barrels fitted to the nef rifle frame as you want. Yes, you have to send the rifle back to NEF, but postage is cheaper than the markup TC charges on their stuff. Shotgun barrels range $39 to $93, rifles range from $82 to $109.


Actually I had heard that, but why should you have to.  If you have more than one frame, would you have to fit each frame to each barrel, or fit each barrel to each frame?  

The Encore and Contender barrels are interchangable between between all the frames.  I have three Contender frames and about a dozen or so barrels that I mix and match.  I have two Encore frames and about four barrels that also do the same.   They hold their value and you can swap them off for others and not have to go through the fitting nonsense each time you want to try a new barrel.  

Quote
Ultimately, if you want to hunt with an expensive suv, that's your choice. Same goes with firearms. If you want to hunt with a $200, $400, $600, $800, $1000+ rifle, that's your choice. But in reality, the game you are pursuing won't know the difference. It's between you and your wallet.


Exactly, but what is it that you are really buying?  There was an old oil filter comerical where the guy in the shop says something like "pay me now or pay me later".  Well you can buy the interchangability up front or you can pay for it later in shipping charges and loss of flexability when purchasing additional components.  

Agreed the game won't know the difference if the shot placement is correct, but you really should do everyting within your control to make sure it is.  As long as you can achieve that with the tool you are using it makes no difference.

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2004, 05:14:58 AM »
OK for a comparison, I own a TCR, Encore, Contender Carbine, and several NEFs.  The NEFs shoot great out to 200 yards, they handle good in the woods and ride on ATVs and snowmachines well.  I don't get upset if I ding or scratch one.  Mine really take a beating.  And for just general everyday carry I usually carry an NEF.  Now if I am going out where my shots are likely to be greater than 200 yards I carry my TCR, the set trigger is a real benifit.  Also the TCR can reach out and touch things better at 500 and 600 yards.  The TCR has much better fit and finish, it also feels better resting against my shoulder.  The craftsmanship is far better than NEF.  Also I shoot .338 win mag very well with my TCR, the heavest I can shoot with NEF is .35 Whelen.  The Contender Carbine is limited to low pressure cartridges, but it shoots them well for a short barrel carbine.  I don't like the Encore, I own several barrels but find it uncomfortable to shoot anything but muzzleloader.  

All the TCs have better fit and finish over the NEFs.  The owners of TCs also have the ability to purchase differant barrels with out sending the gun back to the factory for fitting.  We can also change barrels between ourselves with out wondering if the barrel will fit my reciever.  The downside for me is that the TCs cost so much and are so beautiful that I hate it when I scratch or ding one.  That's why I bought the NEFs to beat up in everyday use.  I'm retired and usually go into the woods four or five days a week.  My NEF 30-06 sees a lot of use.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline scruffy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 526
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2004, 06:22:38 AM »
Tom, $260 for a used TC muzzleloader, hmmmm, I have seen a used NEF muzzleloader for $100 and under.  And a new huntsman for $150.  What do used TC rifle barrels typically run???  Based on the classifieds here more than a new complete NEF rifle....  And a new NEF barrel fitted costs under half what a typical used TC barrel costs.  

In regards to fitting barrels -
Quote
Actually I had heard that, but why should you have to. If you have more than one frame, would you have to fit each frame to each barrel, or fit each barrel to each frame?
 
The Encore and Contender barrels are interchangable between between all the frames. I have three Contender frames and about a dozen or so barrels that I mix and match. I have two Encore frames and about four barrels that also do the same. They hold their value and you can swap them off for others and not have to go through the fitting nonsense each time you want to try a new barrel.
 


Why should you have to?  Easy, TC and NEF have taken different approaches to making their rifles.  TC uses a more expensive tooling process (read computes, robots, etc) that turns out receivers and barrels that are very close in tolerances.  Then they take any barrel and receiver, put them together, and into the box they go.  Of course with the sticker price reflecting the higher cost of manufacture.  NEF uses lower technology to make their recievers and barrels which are much wider in tolerances.  Then they take a reciever, measure, select the mate barrel (a receiver -.010 needs barrel +.010...), put in the box, and charge less because the technology to make these guns is much cheaper.  For additional barrels you send in the reciever, they measure, select the mate barrel, rebox and ship back to you.  They've been doing this for decades, many many many decades.

NEF could make their recievers/barrels tighter in tollerances but then prices of manufacture would go up and then so would the sticker price.  They'd be the same as TC.

Pay me now or pay me later???  Well, lets say I buy a NEF Handi rifle bull barrel 223 for varmints for $200.  Send it into NEF and get a 30-06 for $82, a 12 gauge turkey barrel for $59, a muzzy barrel for $79, plus shipping.  So for $420 and shipping I can have a 223, 30-06, 12 gauge turkey, and muzzleloader.  Add $58 and you can have an open sighted rifled slug barrel or $93 for bull barreled scope mount slug barrel.  Oh, and have a free trigger job while it's there.

How much would a TC with bull barrel 223, 30-06 sportster barrel, 12 gauge turkey, 50 cal muzzy, and a slug barrel cost?  

And that is why the nonsense of fitting barrels, it's cheaper, much cheaper as you add up a bunch of barrels.  But if you need to be able to fit any barrel on any frame (never personally needed to) then you need to get a TC.  Or if you like buying used barrels then you need to get a TC.

So, pay me now or pay me later..., it's going to take a long time before my old hunting truck is going to cost me as much as my SUV...  :wink:

And Thomas, I think you need to go buy a new NEF.  I think you'll enjoy entering a whole fun new addicting world we all know and love!  Don't fight it any longer.  Come to the dark side Luke, I mean Tom.   :wink:

later,
scruffy
Hunting is 99% brain, 1% gun

Offline Thomas Krupinski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
TC-H&R comparison
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2004, 07:02:46 AM »
Quote
And Thomas, I think you need to go buy a new NEF. I think you'll enjoy entering a whole fun new addicting world we all know and love! Don't fight it any longer. Come to the dark side Luke, I mean Tom.


Probably will at some point, but not a new one.  Too many other projects ongoing right now.  Can't rember but I think I may even  have one stashed away somewhere out in the barn.

Quote
Why should you have to? Easy, TC and NEF have taken different approaches to making their rifles.  .........................


Although different approaches they do not come to the same ends.  You still have the time and trouble of sending your frame back and it's absence while it is being fitted.  But again what is being fitted?  Is it the barrel to your frame or your frame to the barrel?  I would imagine it is the barrel and then what do you do if you have more than one frame?  Only use barrels specifically fitted to each of your individaul frames.  

Say you have a problem in the field with the trigger mechanism (just for arguement sake) on your NEF.  Can you take that barrel that is dedicated to that frame that is specalized for the type of hunting that you are doing, and just place it on one of your other frames to continue your hunt?   If you are out for a couple of weeks on a hunt and you can't and have to send your frame in for repair that could cause from other problems.  But again as you would say, you can buy two or more for the price of one as a solution.

Those approaches have advantages and drawbacks, compatability and cost (No free lunch there).  They are not right or wrong, just different.