Author Topic: BC 45/70 Pussycat  (Read 1417 times)

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Offline Big Blue

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BC 45/70 Pussycat
« on: May 23, 2004, 02:48:40 PM »
I threw tradition out the window today, and surrendered to recoil. My BC has made my shoulder turn colors for the last time. I had added an 8" piece of 3/4" copper pipe, filled with lead, to the stock. That helped a bit, but heavy loads, especially off the bench still left my shoulder bruised and once even cut. I had contemplated adding a slip on, or lace on recoil pad, but couldn't find one that fit right. I thought of switching to another NEF stock that had a factory recoil pad, but the BC stock just fits the rifle better. I finally took a saw to the stock, cut the stock straight, and added a recoil pad. Again I couldn't buy one pre-fit, so I ended up getting one and fitting it to the stock. It's an X-Coil pad made by Hi-Viz. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! No more getting kicked by this mule, now I can shoot this thing till the cows come home.
Don

Offline handirifle

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BC 45/70 Pussycat
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2004, 03:31:51 PM »
Big Blue
Well getting to shoot it is what it's all about.  I think it would have been better to get the shotgun straight stock with the pad on it instead of cutting that one, but hey, too late now.  Just enjoy the thing.  That's what you bought it for, right?
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Offline ogo

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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2004, 04:18:27 PM »
Big Blue, glad to here you got things figured out. I got a few big boomers myself T/C in 45/70,BC 45/70 and 458 Win Mag, anytime I do range work with these puppy's I use a ''sissy'' bag,small shot bag filled with sand or # 9 shot,allways tell my friend's,want to try a shot with out the bag, go right ahead. When shooting at game I never feel the recoil.***************Ogo

Offline Cottonwood

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BC 45/70 Pussycat
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2004, 02:32:41 AM »
Quote from: handirifle

I think it would have been better to get the shotgun straight stock with the pad on it instead.


Many a Black Powder Cartridge Rifle (BPCR) has a buttstock designed just like this with the "Shotgun Buttstock"  C. Sharps, Shiloh Sharps, Rolling Blocks etc... hey why not the Buffalo Classic as well.  It is very historicly correct anyways.  Most BPCR shooters prefer the shotgun buttstock over the cresent design, and yes, you can shoot till the cows come home that way.

Even though I don't supercharge my 45-70 loads, I do shoot 500-gr and sometimes 520-gr bullets for distance, in the Buffalo Classic when using black powder cartridge loads.  The old 500-gr 1881 Gov Round Nose design is a favorite of mine.  But the 500-gr bullet that I use now is called an "Elk Buster" with a pretty flat nose which makes one heck of a hunting bullet for Elk, Bear, Moose and if I get lucky enough this year to... even a nice bison from the Sand Hills of Neb.  Now using a heavier bullet does bring on more felt recoil as well, but what you feel in the field is much less than what you feel if shooting from a bench leaning into your Buffalo Classic.

Now just have fun shooting it  :D

Offline Wlscott

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BC 45/70 Pussycat
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2004, 03:33:20 AM »
Blue, anyone who tells you that you wussed out by trying to take some of the kick out of a 45-70 hasn't EVER shot a 45-70 :shock:

I did the exact same thing with my Ultra 22" barrelled 45-70.  It helped a lot, but I still have to use a giant kitchen sponge against the shoulder :wink:
You haven't hunted......Until you've hunted the hunters

Offline safetysheriff

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« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2004, 07:04:24 AM »
I know this will draw fire from some, some who get pretty exasperated by it, but by filling the brass full of a Slow powder, like a '4350' or '4831' speed, you will decrease the pressure and the velocity, and therefore the recoil -- even if the ejecta is somewhat increased.    It's all because of the velocity.

And, the higher loading density may bring better accuracy as well.

Take care, all.

SS'
Yet a little while and the wicked man shall be no more.   Though you mark his place he will not be there.   Ps. 37.

Offline handirifle

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BC 45/70 Pussycat
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2004, 08:59:47 AM »
SS
I have heard of others having success with what you mention.  Never tried it myself.
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Offline sureshot2040

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BC 45/70 Pussycat
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2004, 02:35:45 PM »
hey try using 38.5 grains of imr3031 behind a rem. jsp 405
i spent this past saturday busting 12 inch balloons with this load at 400 yrds
not bad on the shoulder either i dont use anything for recoil.
shot it 40 times to.
montanan where do you get those elk busters??
let me know
thanks,
sureshot

Offline safetysheriff

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« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2004, 01:46:44 PM »
Handi,

The idea of going to such relatively slow powders applies to bottle-necked cartridges as well.    I've read where a .30-06 using a 4831-type powder is slow, but can be very accurate with the heavier bullets.    I think that '06 application -- specifically as regards accuracy -- would depend upon the rifle.    The slower velocity from such a powder reducing recoil makes good sense, however.

Some powders just need more constriction, and more turbulence as is created by a bottle-necked cartridge, in order to really produce power.    That's another reason why the .45-70 can be tamed by using them.

Take care, Handi'

SS'
Yet a little while and the wicked man shall be no more.   Though you mark his place he will not be there.   Ps. 37.

Offline rmtaylor

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BC 45/70 Pussycat
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2004, 05:29:52 PM »
I still have not gotten to shoot my 45-70 since I put in the Mercury recoil suppressor. But I expect it to be much better. Will post when I do.

I am still either to new or to jumpy to load without verified data from manufacturers. How can you be sure that things like full cases of slow powder are safe. I guess some adventurous must have had to try it.

Richard
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Living in Michigan but  "MY Home's in ALABAMA"

Offline Big Blue

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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2004, 04:38:08 PM »
Quote from: rmtaylor


I am still either to new or to jumpy to load without verified data from manufacturers. How can you be sure that things like full cases of slow powder are safe. I guess some adventurous must have had to try it.

Richard

Richard,
You can't go wrong if you keep checking the published load info, the life you save may be your own. When someone has enough experience with a type of powder, and cartridge capacity, they may know enough to make these kinds of calls. I've seen enough unsafe loads posted in various gun forums, to know I need to check everything before I use it. I'm not saying that is the case with safetysherrif's loads, but it's a good policy to adhere to. I look forward to hear about your success with the mercury recoil reducer.
Don

Offline Deadeye47

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« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2004, 04:32:23 AM »
:-D  :-D "use a giant kitchen sponge against the shoulder "   :-D  :-D  and I thought I got ribbed about wearing my Past Mag.Pad at the range......but your right about they haven't ever shot a light weight 45-70  before.....and I always say..."hey! come on over here and take a shot"...as I (smilingly) pull out a 300 gr.Rem. factory load from the box..... there now just hold it snug... you don't have to pull it in tight...shoot a 5 shot group if you want to.... :-D  :-D  :-D
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Offline JPH45

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BC 45/70 Pussycat
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2004, 04:59:44 AM »
rmtaylor, What safteysheriff suggests is actually quite common practice in the world of cast bullet shooting. If you go to IMR powders or to Accurate Arms either one, you will find loads listed that are using powders normally considered far to slow for the case. Both show reduced velocity loads using compressed charges of slow powders. Speer #13  shows reduced velocity loads using this same approach for cartridges like 30-06. It is actually a very common practice. Most people remain unaware of the use of these powders in these applications because the mainstream of reloading is aimed at geting the most of a rifle, not less.

I quite often burn 22 grains of R-7 in my 44 mag pushing a 200 grain bullet to about 1200 fps. The load is quite accurate. I also entered a 44 load in the postal match using WC 846, a powder of about the same burning rate as BL-C2.

Folks get upset with SS for bringing up this load, not because it is unsafe, but because it DOES NOT REDUCE THE FELT RECOIL. If he would stop reading, get a 45-70 and try what he suggests, he would find that his idea leaks like a sieve. That he continues to post this nonsense does not raise his standing amoung the truely informed (those who have been there and done it) but rather serves to leave him looking foolish. Apparently he must like the look as he has been posting this nonsense for over a year.

There are only three ways to reduce recoil: reduce velocity, reduce bullet weight or add weight to the gun. All else does not reduce recoil, but changes the perception of the recoil impulse. (this is what SS says this load does), note that he dug it out of some NRA literature, this is nothing he has done himself, and once again, if he would just go and shoot this load, he would find it does nothing to reduce recoil or change the impression of it.

Sorry to hijack your thread guys.
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Offline safetysheriff

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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2004, 11:10:31 AM »
Quote from: JPH45
rmtaylor, What safteysheriff suggests is actually quite common practice in the world of cast bullet shooting. If you go to IMR powders or to Accurate Arms either one, you will find loads listed that are using powders normally considered far to slow for the case.

Most people remain unaware of the use of these powders in these applications because the mainstream of reloading is aimed at geting the most of a rifle, not less.

Folks get upset with SS for bringing up this load, not because it is unsafe, but because it DOES NOT REDUCE THE FELT RECOIL. If he would stop reading, get a 45-70 and try what he suggests, he would find that his idea leaks like a sieve. That he continues to post this nonsense does not raise his standing amoung the truely informed (those who have been there and done it) but rather serves to leave him looking foolish. Apparently he must like the look as he has been posting this nonsense for over a year.

There are only three ways to reduce recoil: reduce velocity, reduce bullet weight or add weight to the gun. All else does not reduce recoil, (this is what SS says this load does), note that he dug it out of some NRA literature, this is nothing he has done himself,
Sorry to hijack your thread guys.


jph'

typical lonnnnng-winded, simplistic, (and contradictory) post  :eek:

I took out some of your post to make it more obvious that you're double speak is in the mix once again!  

The NRA literature has nothing to do with this, just the same IMR powder booklet that you've mentioned above  :lol:     Is it somehow more instructive when a less-well-versed poster like yourself uses the same reference that I do? :)

I'd guess that my lightweight '870' shooting Brenneke magnums has shown me plenty about recoil.....    8)   But, I find it manageable.     Not that I'm a better man, just that my holding the weapon properly and not leaning into it at a bench is a fair amount of help in the recoil department.     :lol:     I'd like to tell you that recoil from shooting my buddies 7 mm Rem' mag' can be tamed, too, by proper bench technique......     8)

Co-conspirators,

Yeah, I've thought about reduced recoil loads for my .30-06.    But why bother?     It's velocity that gives us good trajectories and more humane killing power.    

I guess that's the difference between some of us on these forums.    We all have a right to participate, but the insults...........JPH45 ought to save them for his kin!   :)  

I recommend that we learn from each other, and spare the insults -- even if they are easy.

Take care.  

 :D
Yet a little while and the wicked man shall be no more.   Though you mark his place he will not be there.   Ps. 37.