New rimfire cartridge is coming out, Hornady .17 HM2.

[His lordship.]

There was an article in the May 2004 American Rifleman magazine about a new and improved cartridge to appeal to the traditional .22 customer/user.

It is a .22 LR hypervelocity case necked down to accept the .17 cal. 17-gr. Hornady bullet.  The cartridge already has a dozen gun makers gearing up to chamber for this improved new way to shoot.  It will use the normal .22 rimfire gun, but with a different bore size, ammo is expected to be around $6.00 a box when it becomes available this September.  

The velocity on this new hot round is 2100 fps versus 1280 fps on the 38 gr .22 LR.  The .17 HM2 has a flatter trajectory, less likelyhood of a ricochet, and like the excellent .17 HMR, more accurate.  Just when I recently bought 2 new .22 LR rifles, and a revolver, there is an even better cartridge coming out.  It would be expensive to rebarrel all of them.

I have 2 of the .17 HMR rifles and they are noticably more accurate and with greater hitting power than the .22's.  It seems you can't keep up with the changing technology anymore.

[quickdtoo]

The July issue of Petersen's Hunting has an article on the 17M2,  quite impressive little round compared to the 22lr, but if you already have a 17hmr, no need to be want it, the 17hmr still shoots more accurate and flatter over a much longer range.  There's a lot of info at RFC, which is still alive and well, btw, if you want more on the 17M2. Varmint Al has comparitive ballistic charts on his site, also. Midsouth is taking orders for the ammo which sells for less than $6 a box, which to me isn't enough less than the $7 or $8 I'm paying for the 17hmr ammo to warrant another 17.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/17mach2.asp

[Lawdog]

As Midsouth put it “Only $5.23 a box!" says enough.  You got a few kids you want to take to the range or out plinking(as I have grandchildren that I take) and they can/do go thru a brick(500 rounds) of .22lr ammo in a day.  Lets see, .22 lr ammo at a $1.00 a box come to $10.00 per child per day.  Now use .17 HM2 in that same formula, $5.23 x 10 = $52.30 per child per day.  I don’t foresee the .17 HM2 replacing the .22 lr anytime soon.  I do believe that the new .17 caliber rimfires will force the ammo manufactures to start using better bullets in their .22 rimfire ammo.  As far as I am concerned there are to many drawbacks to the .17’s to be used for small game hunting.  Small groups and tight lines to all.  Lawdog
 

[quickdtoo]

As far as I am concerned there are to many drawbacks to the .17’s to be used for small game hunting.  Small groups and tight lines to all.  Lawdog
 

Would I be correct in assuming you don't own a .17hmr? If you like small groups, the 17hmr is the ticket in a rimfire. Not my best 100yd group but common for a 17hmr.

[Lawdog]

quickdtoo,

Would I be correct in assuming you don't own a .17hmr?

You are right, I do not own one.  I did, however, spend three days shooting one(a Ruger M77/17) and comparing it to my Ruger 77/22M.  I never said they weren’t accurate.  I said they had drawbacks.  I tested the .17 HMR at the range and on Ground Squirrels, Brush Bunnies not to mention a bunch of plastic bottles filled with water.  After shooting 200 rounds of Remington ammo(the only kind available at the time around here) I came to the following conclusion that the drawbacks were,

1.]  bullets fragmented on squirrels so that there was little meat left for the pot
2.]  heart/lung hits on Brush Bunnies ruined both front quarters leaving you with just the hind legs for the pot
3.]  current available bullets would not hold up well enough to give reliable one shot kills on larger game such as coyotes
4.]  the cost of the ammo is prohibitive for plinking and just having fun

These are the drawbacks I am talking about.  For taking out pest that you are not going to eat then the .17’s should be great but if you are hunting for the pot grab you .22.  Will I ever own one of the new .17's?  Not until the cost of ammo drops to compete with current prices of .22 ammo.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
 

[quickdtoo]

I have to agree with you on most counts, but there is an alternative to the meat loss problem. I've shot several with the CCI or Federal speer hp bullets, it's constructed with a thicker jacket and doesn't expand violently(explode) like the Vmax bullet. It leaves holes pretty much like a 22Lr in squirrels. My longest kill was at 158yds through the boiler room, the exit wound looked just a bit larger than the entrance hole. I haven't shot anything bigger so I don't know their performance on rabbit size critters, although I have seen posts by several varmint hunters "claiming" one shot kills on yotes at well over 100yds. I also saw a dead bobcat killed by 1 shot from 40 yds, cat was hit broadside just behind the shoulder with a Vmax 17hmr. It died on the spot, which I thought was pretty impressive considering cats tend to be pretty tough to kill. As far as cost, I shop and get the ammo on sale, usually pay $7 to $7.50 a box of 50 out the door. From what I understand, premium 22mag ammo is not much cheaper, but I've never owned a 22mag, either. I guess it all boils down to what you'll do with the rimfire. For over a year I was a skeptic concerning the 17hmr, but after my hunting partner of 35 yrs talked my into buying a 17hmr and shooting it, I now own 3 of em! a Marlin 917V with a Mueller 8.5-25x50, a 917VS with a S&W 4-18x42 and a CZ452 American with a Bushy Elite 4200 4-16x40, and I love em all. I bought the 917V first, liked it, wanted another so my son and grandson could shoot with me so I looked for a CZ452, no one had one so I bought the 917VS. A couple weeks later I was shopping at Sportsman's Warehouse, they had just received 3 CZs and I had to have one after handling it. So I ended up with 3 of em, can't convince myself to sell one, so I kept em all! Shoot straight and keep em in the 10 ring.   Tim

[Lawdog]

quickdtoo,

You very well may be right about CCI ammo, I don't know as I said the only .17 HMR ammo available was the Remington.  Not even Wally World had any .17 HMR ammo and the Sporting Goods Manager siad they didn't carry it and wouldn't until they had more call for it.

although I have seen posts by several varmint hunters "claiming" one shot kills on yotes at well over 100yds.

I have seen these too.  I have also seen the .17 HMR used on a two called in coyotes(range under 100 yards) by my friend and ended up killing both for him with my .22 Hornet.  Both were chest hit(on entry one had a rib hit and the other the bullet went between the ribs) and both took off after being so shot.  We ended up tracking one over three hundred yards before finding him and finishing him off.  The other stopped to bite at the entry wound which proved his undoing.  I can only go by what I have seen and the .17 HMR hasn't proved it a consistent killer game the size of coyotes.  I have taken coyotes with my .22 WMR and don't consider it a consistent killer on coyotes either.  I do think the .17 rim fires will force the ammo manufactures to start offering better bullets in the .22 rim fires(both the long rifle and WMR) or suffer the wrath of the buying public.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
 

[quickdtoo]

Hornady and CCI will have 20gr controlled expansion rounds out this fall. Hornady will use their XTP bullet and CCI will use what they call a gamepoint bullet.

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=53

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/default.asp?s1=1&s2=3&id=52&brand=2&year=2004

[His lordship.]

After reading some of your results of the different .17 HMRs, it is interesting.  I tested the Remington, the Hornady, and the CCI brands in .17 HMR 2 weeks ago in my Ruger 77/17 and my CZ 452.  With both rifles the ammo result was the same, accuracy wise.  The Remington was the worst, the Hornady was better, and the CCI was the best in the groups and point of aim.  

So, I figured I would just buy the CCI, now after you guys have pointed out that the V-Max bullet on the Hornady and Remington are more explosive, well I guess I will use the Hornady for hunting crows, and the CCI for bench and meat hunting.  So far, I have only hit one crow and it was done with the Hornady bullet, yes the exit hole on the bird was pretty spectacular!

As far as coyotes go, I am apprehensive about using the .17 HMR for them.  I have a 30-06 in my CZ 550, or .223 in my CZ 527 that I would rather use.

[Lawdog]

Chris D.,

The use of the .223 Remington for coyotes is an EXCELLENT choice.   :wink:   Stay with it.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
 

[quickdtoo]

If anyone is interested in the Petersen's Hunting review of the 17M2, pm me and I'll email the scanned 225kb .pdf file to you. Tim

[1911crazy]

Now that I have a rifle in .17HMR I may wait for a handgun in .17HM2  a  semi-auto handgun would be nice.  The price of ammo isn't too bad since I feed the 22mag too and that hasn't been cheap either.                                                             BigBill

But for varmits I ain't gonna eat I may just bang them with some cheap FMJ 8mm @ 70rds for $4??  I don't think the chucks will make it back to the hole.