Pizza Hut Driver Fired for Defending Self!

[NYH1]

In that story that was presented there is insufficient information to make a determination if use of deadly force was warranted.  From the wording there a number of possibilities could be offered, including some really unlikely, but possible.  It did not say what type of gun, how the person was holding the gun (by the barrel, around the frame, or around the grip with his finger on the trigger, or a long gun slung over his shoulder), was he offering to trade the gun for pizza's or who knows, stranger things have happened.  From the information presented it was unclear.

I know what your saying and your right, but I think the police that were/are investigating the incident probably would have taken all that into account. As far as what my dad told me, I was using that as an example. I've also read and have been told that a when a "deadly force" situation happens it can be harder to deal with and act through when it happens "here" (home in the USA) then when it happens in a "combat' situation. You go to "combat" expecting bad things to happen. Some of us (non police officers that is, they get training) try to prepare ourselves incase something bad happens when where doing are day to day things that we do, but if/when it does happen you don't know how you'll react.


P.S. I'll be out your way November 28th through December 4th. My mother inlaw lives in Tucson, Arizona. Were going to visit her the weekend after thanksgiving! :grin: Its my first time flying :shock:

[Thomas Krupinski]

NY Hunter,

Tucson is about an hour south, but give me a contact if it looks like you will be coming up to the Phoenix area.  We have quail that is open then and if you have an opportunity to come through Phoenix, I may be able to show you a couple up here.  

However you should have no trouble finding good hunting down in the Tuscon area also.  And I think G&F has a few day license that could get you out of your mother-in-law's hair for a while if you are interested.

Good luck on your first flight, too bad they now have to ruin the experience with all that airport security and such.

[jh45gun]

finger still on the mend so do not criticise the typing. when i worked a long time ago for 7-11 a guy come in and threatened to bomb the placeand kill me or who ever else was working. i called the cops and their attitude was call your manager who was a women i told them what good would that do you could at least beef up patrols for a night or 2.  no dice they refused  to help they never even send a squad to check it out, so for a week or so i carried illegally and against co policy until i figured the threat was over.  if caught i would have been fired which i would have not cared i felt my ability to protect myself against a threat was more important than the job. the cops really ticked me off they treated it as a prank but as mad as the guy was i was taking no chances. in this case i feel shoot until you know the guy cannot hurt you but 15 shots may be a opening for a good lawyer to make mince meat out of him not fair if he was in the right but then who ever said slime ball lawyers are fair? Jim

[Dali Llama]

for a week or so i carried illegally and against co policy until i figured the threat was over.  if caught i would have been fired which i would have not cared i felt my ability to protect myself against a threat was more important than the job.

Dali Llama say he concur with jh45gun, Thomas Krupinski's  :roll:  opinions  :roll:  notwithstanding.

[Thomas Krupinski]

Jim,

A long time ago when discussing hypothetical issues involving policy, a very wise man who I worked for told me that I could do anything I wanted to, as long as I was willing to accept the consequences for my actions.  

In your position I probably would have done the same as you did, knowing that I was not being supported by the employer, and also not expecting them to continue my employment if they found out what I did.

[Dali Llama]

Pizza delivery is not an occupation that requires life and death decision making skills involving deadly force and those employees are not recruited for those skills.  If an employer want to recruit at the lowest level to maximize profitability and reduce liability, that is their right.  

Dali Llama say he curious what Thomas Krupinski mean by such commentary, as it certainly sound insulting to intelligence of pizza delivery drivers and demeaning of their occupation.  :?  :?  :?

If Grasshopper is having trouble figuring that out he has a long way to travel in his journey.

Dali Llama say he prefer Thomas Krupinski simply explain his denigrating remarks about pizza delivery drivers, and save Dali trouble of long, arduous journey.  

Dali Llama say it appear to him that Thomas Krupinski yet again intent on disparaging honorable occupation of pizza delivery driver.  Dali say that unfortunately not everyone blessed with education and lucrative occupation apparently enjoyed by Thomas Krupinski. :roll:

Dali Llama say he not understand why Thomas Krupinski wish to demean and disparage occupations of others (those he consider "at the lowest level"). :?  :?  :?

[Thomas Krupinski]

Dali Llama say it appear to him that Thomas Krupinski yet again intent on disparaging honorable occupation of pizza delivery driver. Dali say that unfortunately not everyone blessed with education and lucrative occupation apparently enjoyed by Thomas Krupinski.

Due to hidden profile, not sure if Grasshopper is delivering for one of the numerous pizza places in my area, but if he is, I have no problem with his choice of occupations.  In fact I tip very well for good service.

[Dali Llama]

Dali Llama say it appear to him that Thomas Krupinski yet again intent on disparaging honorable occupation of pizza delivery driver. Dali say that unfortunately not everyone blessed with education and lucrative occupation apparently enjoyed by Thomas Krupinski.

Due to hidden profile, not sure if Grasshopper is delivering for one of the numerous pizza places in my area, but if he is, I have no problem with his choice of occupations.  In fact I tip very well for good service.

Dali Llama say he would appreciate if Thomas Krupinski would kindly show him courtesy of referring to him by chosen name, as Dali do him. :-)  :-)

[Thomas Krupinski]

Dali Llama say he would appreciate if Thomas Krupinski would kindly show him courtesy of referring to him by chosen name, as Dali do him.

No I will reply in a manner and tone consistant with the character in which he choices to post.  

When he earns respect without an anonymous profile and discontinues hidding in the shadows to snipe with questions and begins to discuss issues, I would be happy to treat him with the respect and courtesy I am sure he would welcome.

[Dali Llama]

Dali Llama say he would appreciate if Thomas Krupinski would kindly show him courtesy of referring to him by chosen name, as Dali do him.

No I will reply in a manner and tone consistant with the character in which he choices to post.  

When he earns respect without an anonymous profile and discontinues hidding in the shadows to snipe with questions and begins to discuss issues, I would be happy to treat him with the respect and courtesy I am sure he would welcome.

Dali Llama say he saddened  :cry: , but not surprised, by Thomas Krupinski's obdurate refusal to show same respect for proper form of address that Dali do.  Dali say Thomas Krupinski's stance remind him of behaviour exhibited when members of one racial group think it demonstrate their "superiority"  :roll:  to refer to member of another racial group by demeaning names.

[Bikenut]

Back to the pizza delivery guy.................

There are man made laws that govern where, how, and who, can carry a firearm. Sometimes a condition of employment also governs those things. However, there is a higher "law" that is always in effect.... the law of survival. The individual has to decide which "laws" or "conditions" they will abide by.

That said then it becomes up to the idividual if they will leave their gun home in order to earn a living or abide by man made law and chance becoming a nonsurvivor in the process. The solution, as I understand it, is to not take a job that puts me in danger without the ability to defend myself. Or to keep the ability to defend myself but put my chance to earn a living or stay out of prison in jeapordy. As far as I'm concerned... for me as an individual.... if my life is in direct and personal immediate dire danger from a criminal I just might temporarily ignore man made law..... or if an employer expects me to put my life on the line without allowing me the means to defend myself the employer can take the job and insert it into their own dark and smelly place. There are other jobs out there that are not inherently dangerous. However, that is just how I have decided to deal with that and that decision may not be an acceptable solution for someone else since they might rather face the criminal unarmed than face possible imprisonment or they might be faced with hungry kids. I'm definately not advocating breaking man made law nor am I suggesting letting kids go hungry......... I'm pointing out that in this area, just like every other area in life, the individual affected is the one who has to make an intelligent decision.

So, having said all that...... the pizza delivery guy who put 15 rounds into an alleged assailant apparently chose to put himself in danger of imprisonment (even if the guy was carrying legally if it isn't a justifiable shooting prison still looms as a probable consequence) and put his job in jeapordy in order to obey the law of survival. Therefore he has to face the consequences of that decision... the good thing is.... he is still alive to face those consequences.

[jh45gun]

Tom, the sad part of the whole thing was I knew what the co policy was so I knew where I stood on that issue, but the local police force ( Duluth MN) left a lot to be desired as far as I was concearned on the issue. You call in a complaint and a threat to a business and the people inside you would think you would at least rate a squad car to investigate said incident??? This was back in the late 70's so no discredit to the current police force, but I sure was not impressed back then. Jim

[Dali Llama]

it becomes up to the idividual if they will leave their gun home in order to earn a living or abide by man made law and chance becoming a nonsurvivor in the process.

Dali Llama say he think most intelligent persons [including pizza delivery drivers, Thomas Krupinski's disparagement of their means of earning a livelihood notwithstanding] would opt to disobey such law.

[dukkillr]

What exactly did Thomas say that was incorrect?  It seems to me that the quote:  

"Pizza delivery is not an occupation that requires life and death decision making skills involving deadly force and those employees are not recruited for those skills. If an employer want to recruit at the lowest level to maximize profitability and reduce liability, that is their right. "

Is completely accurate.  When police officers are hired they are tested and recruited based on their ability to make "life and death decisions ... involving deadly force..."  for better or worse pizza men, "are not recruited for those skills."  I fail to see any inaccuracy, cooks aren't tested on, or recuited for, their computer programming skills.  Computer programmers are recruited for their cooking ability.  Where exactly does the problem arise here?

[Thomas Krupinski]

What exactly did Thomas say that was incorrect?  It seems to me that the quote:  

"Pizza delivery is not an occupation that requires life and death decision making skills involving deadly force and those employees are not recruited for those skills. If an employer want to recruit at the lowest level to maximize profitability and reduce liability, that is their right. "

Is completely accurate.  When police officers are hired they are tested and recruited based on their ability to make "life and death decisions ... involving deadly force..."  for better or worse pizza men, "are not recruited for those skills."  I fail to see any inaccuracy, cooks aren't tested on, or recuited for, their computer programming skills.  Computer programmers are recruited for their cooking ability.  Where exactly does the problem arise here?

Dukkillr,

It does not make any difference what I said that prompts Grasshoppers replies.  He appears to be just someone starved for attention and post provoking threads and replies to get such.  

Such individuals like misbehaving children seeking attention are often best left ignored, unless the behavior becomes too obnoxious.  This pattern is displayed in the other threads that he begins for similar results.

[dukkillr]

got it, my bad... just a gut reaction to point out that you didn't say anything wrong, and for whatever reason he got hung up on it... shoulda let him feel like he's right i guess...

[Dali Llama]

What exactly did Thomas say that was incorrect?  Where exactly does the problem arise here?

Dali Llama say that what Thomas Krupinski said was, "Pizza delivery is not an occupation that requires life and death decision making skills involving deadly force and those employees are not recruited for those skills. If an employer want to recruit at the lowest level to maximize profitability and reduce liability, that is their right."
Dali Llama say that what he criticize Thomas Krupinksi for is unnecessary disparagement of occupation of pizza delivery driver inherent in "recruit at the lowest level" remark. :x

[Dali Llama]

It does not make any difference what I said that prompts Grasshoppers replies.  

Dali Llama say he kindly ask Thomas Krupinski once again to employ common courtesy of referring to Dali in appropriate manner (i.e., as "Dali" rather than "Grasshopper").  Dali say he refer to Thomas Krupinski by name, and ask him to show same respect.  Dali say he find it rather ironic that Thomas Krupinski attack and criticize Dali, yet show no respect himself.  Dali wonder if Thomas Krupinski ever hear of phrase regarding pot calling kettle black??? :?

[dukkillr]

Perhaps some think being responded to in the wrong tense shows lack of respect.

[Squirrelsaurus Rex]

I hereby take the unprecedented and egocentric step of crowning myself Supreme Holy Self-Righteous Grand Poobah of the forum and officially declare that this thread has played itself out and is going nowhere fast.

(But you have to admit, it's feeling more and more like the old MarlinTalk every day! :mrgreen: )

[Dali Llama]

Perhaps some think being responded to in the wrong tense shows lack of respect.

Since when do dukkillr become appointed authority regarding what consitute "right" or "wrong" tense for forum reponses, inquire Dali Llama??? :?  :?  :?