Pardener youth in 410 or 28?

[Flingarrows]

I am going to get my son a nef in the next few weeks. my question is, 410 or 28? he is almost 9, but he is a little guy and seems to be a bit shy of recoil. i dont want to scare him off with too much to start with. i want to take him on a youth dove hunt next fall, and am wondering if the full choke 410 would be too tight of a pattern for a novice and should i consider the 28 with a modified choke. ive never shot a 28, so im not sure of how much difference the recoil would be. any thoughts on this? thanks

[Moonlitin]

I started my son out with a spring piston air rifle when he was 10.  It was perfect for teaching him some basic gun safety, backyard plinking, and even squirrel hunting.  He can't hunt with a firearm in Michigan until he's 12 and takes a hunter safety class.  Well, he took the class this winter, and he turns 12 next month, so I found myself asking the same question as you are.

I couldn't decide between a 20 gauge and a .410.  I didn't want the recoil of a 20 gauge to make it uncomfortable for him, but I also didn't want him to become discouraged because he missed every shot using a .410.  I briefly considered the 28 gauge, but decided against that option because of the limited choices of ammo.  The cost of ammo could be a factor for you as well, although if you're decision is between a .410 and a 28 gauge ammo cost will be about the same.

I bought my son a Pardner .410 because we'll be doing more squirrel and rabbit hunting.  Then I bought a Pardner 20 gauge for myself.  That way, he can try the .410 and the 20 gauge, then use the one that HE is most comfortable with.  I was going to buy a 12 gauge barrel too, but for just a little more I bought the 12 gauge Pardner instead.

Every boy is different, and you know your son best, but if he's almost 9, a little guy, and shy of recoil, I'm confident that he will not like shooting a 20 gauge Pardner until he's a little older (I know you said 28 gauge, so I'll come back to that later).  I took my son to the range this week with our three Pardners (.410, 20, and 12).  He shot some squirrel shaped targets with the .410 using 2.5 inch #6 shot loads and he loved it.  Next, he shot some 3 inch slugs through the .410 at paper plates on the 50 yard range and he loved that too.  Then he tried a couple of target loads with the 20 gauge and didn't care for it.  Next stop...the trap range.  Since he had never shot trap before, he wanted to "watch the first time".  After I shot a round with my 12 gauge Pardner he was ready to give it a try (we were the only ones there).  I explained to him that he could use the 20 gauge and probably break more targets but the recoil would be worse, or he could use the .410 with less recoil but it would be more difficult to break the targets.  He chose the .410...didn't break a target but had a ball...and blamed his lack of success entirely on the gun!  He's looking forward to giving it another try.

From what I've read, most guys consider the .410 an "expert's gun" when used for moving targets and a "beginner's gun" when used for stationary targets.  If you were chasing squirrels or rabbits, I'd say go with the .410.  Since you're taking him on a dove hunt, I'd be tempted to say go with the 28 gauge.  I've never shot a 28 gauge either, but I did find a Shotgun Recoil Table that had some interesting information there:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm
.410 bore, 2.5" = 7.1 ft. lbs. recoil energy
.410 bore, 3" = 10.5 ft. lbs. recoil energy
28 gauge, 2.75" = 12.8 ft. lbs. recoil energy
20 gauge, 2.75" = 16.1-25 ft. lbs. recoil energy (depending on load)
Based on that information, and my son's experience, I'd say that he would be OK with the 28 gauge.  The recoil he experiences with a 28 gauge should be a little more than the .410, but also significantly less than a 20 gauge.  The modified choke and increased payload of shot should increase his odds of success.

Good luck, and let us know what you get.

Moonlitin

[VarmintController]

i started my oldest boy on a H&R tamer 410. not much more money then a normal 410, and it has a shorter stock on it, and fits a small framed shooter much better. and yes i know about the youth guns, but the youth guns dont have that neat little ammo storage thing right on the butt stock. start with a light load of 2.5 inch, then move up to the 3 inch when he's ready. no its no good for deer hunting, but neither is a 28ga. so then when he is ready for a 20ga, you send it in for a new barrel. and change the stock if you want to, and providing he is ready for a bigger one. this worked with my oldest, and i know it will work on the other two also. now maybe someone else out there knows a better way of doing it, if so i hope they speak up, maybe i can learn a new trick or two myself. of course that was the way to break him into a shotgun, his first gun shooting was done with a older single shot bolt action winchester 22lr. he had a BB gun before that, but he had no intrest in it, knowing dad had "real" guns. you all know how boys can be. so we went right to that old 22lr, and now he is using a tracker2 20ga for deer, and a 20ga mod choke for bird, and small game.

[Moonlitin]

I did the same thing with my son as VarmintController did with his.  After my son was doing a good job with the air rifle, we picked up a couple of Sportsters (22LR, 22WMR, and 17HMR) and a couple of Romanian 1969s.  Then we moved into the Pardner world.

Varmintcontroller also brought up a good point about the ability to swap the stocks in addition to the barrels.  We replaced the synthetic stocks on our Sportsters with laminate stocks.  

The great thing about these NEFs is that you can swap the barrels and stocks, so if you or your son change your mind about your original choices, you always have the option for something else.  In fact, if you're having a difficult time deciding, you could get the youth Pardner in either gauge (the 28 may be difficult to find on someone's shelf) and then spend $39 (plus shipping) to get the other barrel from NEF.  Then you could let your son decide what he likes better.

Safety is always my first concern, but it has to be fun and successful to keep young ones interested.  Punishing recoil is not fun for a kid, and neither is missing everything that he shoots at.  I've found that a little bit of success goes a long way to building confidence.

Moonlitin

[Flingarrows]

after looking at the recoil table, im leaning towards the 28 ga. we will do some shooting with a 22 this summer and he has been using a crossman airgun for about a year now. tx for the feedback

[DaveH]

If your going to be taking your son wing shooting I would go with the .28 ga. Back in the world I own a topper .28 and have had it to a few dove hunts as a back up gun it works great on those little grey cruise missiles.  I also have a NEF .410 full choke and its hard to hit thing as fast as a dove with it.  The ammo is not as hard to find as some make it out to be.  Any good gun shop will have a supply of it.  I mean your not going to be able to run down to the local Walmart and pick it up.  the shot size is limited but you can get the standard stuff 6 and 71/2 shot.

Just my 2 cents....

[MSP Ret]

Hi Dave, how are things going over there? We are still praying for all of you guys over there and thank each and every one of you every day for what you are doing for the rest of us. Happy Memorial day and keep the faith, keep the strength....<><.... :grin:

[jbtazgrabber]

order the 28 ga youyh  the hit ratio is like case size 2 to 1 over 410 and i would use  #9 target load winchester  the price was 10 cents higher for 28 ga over 410  at a sporting good store in ok.  i orderd it at walle would 109$killed lots of dove from 100 lb. girl .

[Flingarrows]

i went to walmart sunday to order it, but the guy said i had to come back during the week to order it. im hoping to get back before the weekend

[jbtazgrabber]

i almost forgot   i took off the new stock and drilled two 3/8 holes four inches  deep between the 2 screws that hold the buttplate on and thencut 3 inches off the stock .so i could put in a 3/8 dowel rod in when thew grew intoa full size stockthe doweel rod keepthe fit right. make sure to order the youth model with 20 in. barrel stock is shor.ter   if in future you find someone who can reload 28 ga i highly recomend unique powder it was a very light recoil..hope this helps

[dawei]

I am going to get my son a nef in the next few weeks. my question is, 410 or 28? he is almost 9, but he is a little guy and seems to be a bit shy of recoil. i dont want to scare him off with too much to start with. i want to take him on a youth dove hunt next fall, and am wondering if the full choke 410 would be too tight of a pattern for a novice and should i consider the 28 with a modified choke. ive never shot a 28, so im not sure of how much difference the recoil would be. any thoughts on this? thanks

The 28 will kick as much as the 20. The 410 will have very lmited range. Having said that go with the 20Ga: Unscrew the recoil pad & fill the cavity with#7½ shot to within ¼" of the end. Seal it over with hot glue and reattach the recoil pad. Now the gun will shoot like a 410 yet he will have much better success on doves with it. Squirrels & rabbits too for that matter.

I did this inexpensive modification on my wife & 2 grandson's guns. Works like a charm. Fact is my wife uses 3" Mags Turkey & Duck Hunting with zero recoil problems.

Hope this helps.

[DaveH]

dawei
          What .28 ga. you been shooting  My 28 even with the hottest load I can shoot doesn't come close to kicking like my 20 ga does ??(which is also a topper)
Why take a gun thats meant to be light and fast shooting and load it up so it weighs as much as a standard pump gun ??
I have shot many dove, squirrels and rabbits with my topper in 28 ga.
Its just plain fun to shoot ALL day long.

[dawei]

dawei
          What .28 ga. you been shooting  My 28 even with the hottest load I can shoot doesn't come close to kicking like my 20 ga does ??(which is also a topper)
Why take a gun thats meant to be light and fast shooting and load it up so it weighs as much as a standard pump gun ??
I have shot many dove, squirrels and rabbits with my topper in 28 ga.
Its just plain fun to shoot ALL day long.

Both guns were NEF. 28GA was standard size with 26" Barrel; 20GA was the Youth/Ladies Model with shorter stock & 22" Barrel. The 20GA weighed onlt 4¾lbs!

Dave E.
US Army CW3

[HuntenNut]

If you decide to go 410, you may also consider the "Versa Pack" which comes with youth sized stock and both 410 and 22lr barrels with an excellent padded case that holds everything. Its not much more than the pardner. I got this set up for my wife for a little over $100. I actually ended up having a lot of fun with that tiny gun myself with the little 410 barrel. Even thought it doesn't fit, its really fun to shoot at clay birds.

[MSP Ret]

Huntenut, I have been thinking of a "Versa-Pak" for several reasons. where did you get it and how long ago for a little over $100.00? At what age or size do you think a child could comfortably shoot it?, Thanks....<><....  :grin:

[Flingarrows]

im leaning toward the 28 gauge. i like the idea of filling the stock w shot, but my son is a little guy. i would rather cut the youth stock and put a mushy kickeaz or limbsaver pad on it. by the time he out grows it, my daughter will be coming up. thanks for all the info. i still havent been able to get back to walmart........ maybe monday

[HuntenNut]

I got the versa pack several years ago from gunfinder.net which was based in hemlock, mi. I believe they are out of business now, but I used to buy from their website and pick up the guns at their shop on my trips "up north" in MI. They say everything on their site was 10% over cost, which was a pretty good deal on just about any gun or accessory they had.

I think it is in the catalog at walmart for "special orders", but I couldn't be sure of the price now.

The stock has about 12-1/2" pull and I think suitable for most any smaller youngster or woman (I got mine for the wife in an effort to get her interested in shooting).

I also like the case that came with it which is a heavy padded black case with H&R logo which holds the frame/stock and both barrels when removed. Pretty neat package.

Also, I bet you can upgrade it to full size stock and larger bore barrels when they grow into them, but you might want to verify that with H&R as I am just guessing its a standard SB1 frame.

[Leftoverdj]

28 gauge.

In equal weight guns, 5/8 oz of shot at 1200 fps produces the same amount of recoil no matter what gauge the guns are. The difference is in the patterns. 410s mangle shot. 28 gauges do not.

There's even a way around the ammo problem. Ballistic Products sells new hulls cheaply. (Dirt cheap when I got mine.) If you have access to a drill press, all you need in the way of loading equipment is a $25 roll crimper and a set of Lee dippers.

[Flingarrows]

youve got mail, leftoverdj