Author Topic: Bino ???  (Read 1380 times)

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Offline lubbockdave

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Bino ???
« on: June 03, 2004, 04:25:51 PM »
I finally have the $$, but I am not sure what to look for in bino's I'll only have to buy once for hunting deer. I have $300 to $500 to spend and have been looking at nikon Monarch and Pentax's in the 8x42 range, but have found some Ziess Conquests 10x50's for a bargin. I wear glasses, so that is a consideration. When I hunt I do LOTS of walking, so wieght and size is also a factor-the Ziess looks a little big and the magninification may be a bit much for my needs...

any suggestions for those with more experience is appreciated!!

Dave

Offline quickdtoo

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Bino ???
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2004, 04:47:00 PM »
Whatever glass you get, be sure to get a bino buddy type carrier, they really make a difference in the weight you feel, none on your neck and the way they fit around your shoulders, you can easily forget you're wearing them.
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Offline lubbockdave

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Bino ???
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2004, 04:51:43 PM »
yea,I was planning on that, but does it really make even the Larger bino's that easy to carry?

Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2004, 05:05:16 PM »
I have a Nikon Monarch ATB 8x40WP that weighs 28oz and have literally forgotten that I was wearing them, that's how well they work, I wasn't kidding about that, in the least, they are that good. I used to always use compact binos for that very reason, I didn't like the weight, but compacts just don't cut it when you use them a lot. I got mine from Cabela's for $20 but I've seen them elsewhere.

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Offline Thomas Krupinski

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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2004, 05:13:47 PM »
I recently bought on of the Nikon Monarch ATB 8x42's and have only had it out on one hunt so far.  Perfect with my multifocal glasses, and bright enough pleanty to see inside the shadows.    Easy to carry with the padded neck strap that comes with it.  

I have seen them in the field, but don't use one of those harness rigs for the binoculars as I wear a pack(s) and often a couple of other things on lanyards in the front pockets along with the tube for the hydration bladder.  Got enough stuff to worry about taking off and putting in the right order when I stop for a rest or whenever.

Offline quickdtoo

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Bino ???
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2004, 05:37:14 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Krupinski
 
I have seen them in the field, but don't use one of those harness rigs for the binoculars as I wear a pack(s) and often a couple of other things on lanyards in the front pockets along with the tube for the hydration bladder.  Got enough stuff to worry about taking off and putting in the right order when I stop for a rest or whenever.


I'm bespectacled myself, the Monarchs work excellent, the last glass I'll ever buy. I use a camelback also, and a bunch of other stuff, you just need to be organized enough to remember what to put on or take off first, if you know what I mean. If I can wear the harness whilest wearing a possibles bag, powder horn, camelback and a deer, elk, predator or turkey call of some sort, and a fanny pack with shoulder straps, anyone can do it. I've used the padded neck straps, they stink in comparison, threw mine away after buying the harness. Wearing the harness you won't need to stop and rest as much, heh heh.... :grin:
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Offline jackfish

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Bino ???
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2004, 04:35:57 AM »
First, Zeiss does not make a 10x50mm binocular, Conquest or otherwise.  If you can live with a 3mm exit pupil the Zeiss Conquest 10x30mm may be a great daytime binoculars.

Second, stay away from the Pentax DCF HRII. There are better binoculars for the same or slightly more money.  Such as the Nikon Monarch ATB and the Wind River Olympic.  http://www.betterviewdesired.com/Pentax04/index.html  If you can spend the extra money the Pentax DCF SP 8x43mm are very good.

Third, you should also check out the Eagle Optics Ranger Platinum Class, Alpen Apex and the Celestron Regal LS.  http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=2991 http://www.alpenoutdoor.com/products/alpen_apex.shtml http://www.betterviewdesired.com/Celestron/regal.html  They have a great view and a warranty.  The Eagle Optics and the Celestron have a nominal cost no-fault replacement provision beyond their lifetime warranty.

Last, If you have $500 to spend you might also want to look at the Minox 8.5x42.  But you might not find much difference between them and those which cost $350-$400.
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Offline Thomas Krupinski

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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2004, 05:39:32 AM »
Quicktdoo,

I have friends I have hunt with who use those harness rigs and really like them and recommend them highly.  I have tried theirs on with some of my rigs, but did not hunt with it as I did not care for it at all.  Some folks like them and some don't.  The only way for someone to find out for sure is to just try it under the conditions you expect to use it.

Offline Bushnell Boy

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Bino ???
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2004, 05:40:37 AM »
You should look at the Bushnell legends also.
http://www.bushnell.com/products/binoculars/specs/19-0143.html
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Offline quickdtoo

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Bino ???
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2004, 06:01:22 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Krupinski
Quicktdoo,

I have friends I have hunt with who use those harness rigs and really like them and recommend them highly.  I have tried theirs on with some of my rigs, but did not hunt with it as I did not care for it at all.  Some folks like them and some don't.  The only way for someone to find out for sure is to just try it under the conditions you expect to use it.


Thomas,

I think(opinion) that a lot of folks have trouble putting them on, I did at first, but once I mastered that, it's been smooth sailing since. To put them on, I think of the harness as a shirt without buttons and slip into it that way. I sure wish someone had been around to show me the light, no pun intended, and tell me about them, I spent a lot of time packing poor glass because of the weight issue or not wearing glass because of it. After I learned they were so great, I bought my hunting partner of 35 yrs a pair for Christmas, he expressed much gratitude after wearing them even after some reluctance, you know how old guys are! :lol:   Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline lubbockdave

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Bino ???
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2004, 06:31:26 AM »
Thank ya'll so much for the info so far!!!
My choices are the monarch's in the $300-$289 range or the Pentax as I said before--The Ziess are conquests 12x45 asking $425--think they sell for around $600---but are they worth it??Only VERY SLIGHT USE-LNIB, but I wonder if they will fit MT NEEDS!!??!! as a hunter, or will the $300 monarchs be just right?

choices, choices...
thanks again and keep it coming!
Dave

Offline jackfish

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Bino ???
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2004, 08:37:18 AM »
Unless you only hunt in very open country in day light I would pass on the Zeiss Conquest 12x45mm.  They will probably be very hard to keep steady in the field.  Most people can master 10x, but 12x is difficult for most.  If you hunt dawn and dusk you should consider a binocular with a 5mm exit pupil minimum.

The Nikon Monarch ATBs should serve you well.  They have a good view, 25 year warranty, a $10 plus shipping no-fault repair or replacement policy and for $290 plus shipping are a good deal.  However, there are much better glass for under $400.
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Offline Zachary

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Bino ???
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2004, 09:07:27 AM »
I agree about going no higher than 10x.  Anything over 10x is hard to view still and, more importantly, at least for me who doesn't hunt in way open territory, 10x is just too much.  As such, for my needs, 8x is plenty, and 10x is max anyway.

My general though is get binos up to 10x, and if you hunt in way open spaces, then just get a spotting scope with a steady rest.  Of course many people try to kill 2 birds with one stone (no pun intended) and try to do both with 1 set of binos.

One things for sure.....get the best optics you can afford.

Zachary

Offline MarkJ_Thompson

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Bino ???
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2004, 09:08:30 AM »
I have been using Steiner 10X50 Military/Marine Binoculars for a few years now...you adjust them to your eyes and then never mess with focusing on different ranges. They are very clear...Price Varies $439-499.00 depending on retailer.

If you have any questions on them...drop an email! MarkJ_Thompson@hotmail.com

MJT

Offline quickdtoo

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Bino ???
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2004, 11:03:27 AM »
Quote from: MarkJ_Thompson
I have been using Steiner 10X50 Military/Marine Binoculars for a few years now...you adjust them to your eyes and then never mess with focusing on different ranges.


I have in the last few years become a bird watcher as it fits in well with hunting activity. I had a pair of 6x30 steiners which for woods hunting were great, never had to focus them so one handed glassing was a cinch. Then I started the bird thing, they don't close focus so that was the end of them, just a heads up in case that is something you're interested in.
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Offline lubbockdave

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« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2004, 11:30:33 AM »
Quote from: jackfish
Unless you only hunt in very open country in day light I would pass on the Zeiss Conquest 12x45mm.  They will probably be very hard to keep steady in the field.  Most people can master 10x, but 12x is difficult for most.  If you hunt dawn and dusk you should consider a binocular with a 5mm exit pupil minimum.

The Nikon Monarch ATBs should serve you well.  They have a good view, 25 year warranty, a $10 plus shipping no-fault repair or replacement policy and for $290 plus shipping are a good deal.  However, there are much better glass for under $400.


Yea, that is EXACTLY what I was concerned about...keeping steady. I will pass on the Ziess and sounds like most here really like the Nikon's!! And with the $300 nikon's I can afford a scope or too! any suggestions on which nikon to get? I know a lot of you like the Monarch's, but any other suggestions?



Thanks

Dave

Offline Atomic Chicken

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Bino ???
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2004, 12:48:20 AM »
Greetings!

I have always loved optics, and I have several pair of excellent binoculars in the $1,000+ range.  I have spent a LOT of time at sporting goods stores looking through optics, and at this point I am VERY confident that I know good optics from bad.  I have put my own money (quite a considerable sum) where my mouth is, and I'm not blabbing about something I've read somewhere without looking through the glass first hand. I am also a birdwatcher like "quickdtoo" who posted above, and birdwatchers are known to be a bit more discriminating about optics than most other binocular users.

Considering your budget, My #1 recommendation for you would be to buy a pair of 8X Nikon Monarch ATB binoculars.  These are truly excellent, bright, clear optics that are almost as good as high end Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss.  The major difference between the Nikon Monarch ATB and the truly high-end binoculars is something called "chromatic aberration", which some people call "color fringe" around the edges of high contrast objects (like a dark telephone pole against a bright sky).  Most people do not notice this unless they are looking for it, and in normally lit scenes (especially where there is not a lot of contrast difference, like an animal against a forest background) you will not notice this effect at all.

The Nikon Monarch ATB binoculars are VERY lightweight considering their objective lens size and excellent armored waterproof housing, I own a pair of these binoculars and they are truly fine.  These are the first thing I grab when going camping.  I also own a pair of Pentax SP binoculars in the same power and objective lens size, and I tell you there is absolutely ZERO difference between these two, other than the higher price that Pentax charges (About $200 more).  I bought the Pentax before I knew about the Nikon ATB, and I now use them as a backup pair in case something ever happens to my Nikons.  If there was ANYTHING superior about the Pentax, they would be the main binoculars I grab and the Nikons would be the backup, but there isn't so they aren't.

If you have a bit more cash to spend, you will probably NEVER find a better binocular than the Nikon LX series - but you will have the tradeoff of a higher weight and quite serious cash outlay (I paid just under $1,000 for mine).  Stunning image quality - the best that money can buy.  However, do you really need this for hunting?

Leica, Swarovski, Zeiss, and all other binoculars over $1,000 are a WASTE OF MONEY - compare them in person to the Nikon LX series and you will see what I mean.  You will save $300-$700 and have THE SAME QUALITY of binocular without the "german brand name" - which is the ONLY thing your extra money will be buying.

I also would recommend that you stick with a lower power binocular, 8X or lower.  VERY few people can handle 10X binoculars properly and view the world through them comfortably for long periods of time.  Don't fool yourself and think "I'm different" - you will most likely be setting yourself up for eyesight fatigue, blurry and shaky image after hiking a bit, and overall disappointment.  Even if you CAN hold them steady for long periods of time without fatigue, you will be limiting your field of view (seeing LESS of the overall picture) and sacrificing light gathering ability (higher power binoculars perform more poorly in low-light conditions, unless you increase the objective lens size - which also increases weight).  Be smart - don't buy into the binocular marketing game of "higher power is better" - in all but the most rare situations it really isn't.

Think of it this way:  Marine sniper spotters in Vietnam used 7X (yes, SEVEN POWER) binoculars when assisting their sniper partners, and had no problems whatsoever seeing what they needed to see.  This isn't because they couldn't make higher power binoculars back then, it was because 7X binoculars were PLENTY POWERFUL, yet EASY TO USE FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME while giving the user a WIDE FIELD OF VIEW to see the "big picture".

Just my .02 - take it or leave it, and feel free to disagree.  Please take what I say with a bit of consideration, though, because I really DO know what I'm talking about with this topic.

Best wishes,
Bawko
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Offline lubbockdave

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Bino ???
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2004, 03:25:06 AM »
Bawko,


thank yo for the great reply! One last question...can you use Monarch ATB's with glasses? I wear glass when hunting and need to be able to NOT have to remove my glasses everytime I want to look in the bino's.

Thanks
again

Dave

Offline Thomas Krupinski

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Bino ???
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2004, 04:55:46 AM »
Dave,

That was one of the features that sold me.  They have the screw out eyecups rather than the rubber popouts.  I use mine with the big lenses you see in my avatar and work perfectly.  I compared them to the Bushnell Legends (I think) on the eyecups and I prefered the Nikon eyecups even though they look very similar.

Offline lubbockdave

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« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2004, 06:53:20 AM »
I want to thanks you folks very much! Just placed an order for the ATB's NIB with a shoulder harness for a grand total of $281!!  I am excited!

I'll let ya'll know what I think when they come in!


Dave

Offline Atomic Chicken

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« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2004, 12:02:48 PM »
lubbockdave,

Excellent choice - you won't be disappointed (especially considering the price!).  Just out of curiosity - did you end up settling on the 8X or 10X?

Let us all know what you think of those binoculars when you receive them!

Best wishes,
Bawko
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Offline lubbockdave

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Bino ???
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2004, 12:50:09 PM »
I decided on the 8x's thought those would be easiest for a "beginner"

Thanks again!

Dave

Offline Atomic Chicken

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« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2004, 01:13:53 PM »
lubbockdave,

You made the right decision!  Although choosing the 8X has nothing to do with "beginner" use as you posted.

I would consider myself to be somewhat of a "expert" when it comes to binoculars, and own quite a few excellent binoculars.  ALL of my binoculars are 8X, except for one pair - a 10X50 model.  I use the 10X binoculars so rarely that I sometimes wonder if I wasted my money buying them - I think I may have put in 10 or 15 minutes TOTAL looking through them this year.

Believe it or not, my favorite all-around binoculars in terms of sheer enjoyment and excellent image quality is a lowly pair of Nikon 8X32 (Yes, that is a very small 32mm objective) LX binoculars.  I paid a little over $700 for them, and would easily pay twice that without blinking considering the sheer joy they are to use.  They weigh 25 Oz, which is a little heavy considering their small size, but EVERYTHING about these binoculars just screams "quality".  I spend more time looking through these than all of my other binoculars combined - if you ever have some serious cash to put out for truly fine optics, check out a pair of these and compare them to the high-end Leica and Swarovski optics.  You'll most likely be impressed!!!

If you are looking for high power, 10X or above, the right tool for the job is a spotting scope, not binoculars.  Many people own 10X binoculars and like them just fine, but my experience has shown me that when asked, these people have typically bought 10X optics and used them without having ever compared them to lower power binoculars.  They automatically think that the power rating is somehow a seal of quality or that "bigger is better", and don't ever bother spending any time looking through 7X or 8X binoculars.  Sometimes, when letting these kind of people look through my 8X Nikon LX binoculars, they will quickly look, hand them back, say "that's nice" and grab their own again.  I then say "take ANOTHER look.... and spend a minute this time".  They will look again, and almost EVERY time they will stop about 20 or 30 seconds into it and get a strange look on their faces.  I don't know if it is the wider field of view, the pure clean detail, or the absence of "shakiness" that grabs them, but almost every time they ARE grabbed.  I love the look on their faces when they hand the binoculars back, it's like they've seen a whole new world they didn't know existed before.

In short, enjoy your Nikon ATB's, the 8X decision was a VERY good one on your part.  You will enjoy using these MUCH more than if you had chosen the 10X version, I'm certain of it.

Best wishes,
Bawko
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Offline lubbockdave

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Bino ???
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2004, 04:41:08 PM »
OH MY FREAKIN GOSH!!!!! I have NEVER not had to close one eye to look at a clear picture though bino's!!! These Monarchs are GREAT! and I see what ya'll meant about the shaking...I got a little of it, but I can get better with practice, I'm sure.


Thank you all for you help/input with this!

Dave

Offline Naphtali

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« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2004, 05:01:11 AM »
lubbockdave:

I am in my late 50s and of slight build, and presbyopic.

The BinoBuddy is useful for carrying any binocular, but it does negative work for the total weight of your binocular assembly when it's attached to YOU.

I have owned Leitz (not Leica brand name, but same manufacturer) Trinovid, Zeiss-Jena, Zeiss-Wetzlar, and Nikon binoculars, Presently I use Zeiss 8x30 B/GA IF Olive binocular with ocular and objective lens protectors. Total weight, including harness, protectors, and snow filters is less than 28 ounces.

Large binoculars -- that is, heavy (34 oz+) or bulky (Objective lenses 40 mm+) may appear to be wonderful tools when you try them at the store, or practice with them in decent weather. Unless you are a HARD CORE hunter (all CAPS is important in description), you will discover that large binoculars are unpleasant to use, for example, hunting elk at altitude. You will almost certainly be carrying other stuff -- rifle, ammo, clothes, boots, rucksack, etc. When you add the weight, you begin to realize the extra weight of the harness and larger-than-necessary binocular is no fun to carry. The longer your hunting day, the more strongly you'll agree with me.

The solution I suggest is to obtain an excellent quality binocular --perhaps at a once-a-lifetime ridiculous cost -- whose quality of design and construction offsets being smaller than most. For example, Zeiss-Jena's 7x40 EDF roof prism binocular is superb, with Schott optical glass. With lens covers, harness, snow filters they weigh nearly 42 oz. and are bulky. My 8x30s are about 60 percent of the bulk and much easier to deal with all day. Snow filters are desirable to use over snow fields and water. Glare can be annoying.

Please note that I tend toward best-quality when considering a binocular because:

1. It's not easy to build durable assembly of two telescopes whose points of view converge, and remain correctly coverging for a long time. Best-quality binoculars will last, as you bought them, for your lifetime so long as you don't try the "let's fall off the cliff" test.

2. Out-of-alignment or budget binoculars are extremely uncomfortable to use for long periods. And that's what you'll be doing. Most hunting in western US or high country is "looking." Your rifle is dead weight for all but maybe 40 seconds of your hunt.

3. Some binoculars are available with mil scale rangefinding reticles. These are a quick-and-dirty way to estimate distance to quarry, or its size. While nowhere near as precise as a laser rangefinder, additional weight is zero. Most military binoculars have the reticle. Zeiss offers it for some of their commercial binoculars. At least one vendor offers one after-market reticle.

4. My experience from many people who own high-quality binoculars is that German and Austrian binoculars tend to have glass and coatings more scratch resistant than others. The key here seems to be Schott optical glass. Dunno why, though.

5. When using binocular for hunting, as opposed to birding, you tend to make your diopter adjustment once, then use them. Again my experience -- and most western armies, too -- is that individually focussing eye pieces tend to be significantly more durable and water resistant than central focussing. Once you get past the mental barrier of adjusting them correctly, you never notice your loss of convenience.

6. I wear eye glasses. But regardless of binocular's eye relief, I strongly recommend you pay no attention to differences among the class of binocular you search. Although eye relief can imply superior depth of field, don't worry about it. If you wear spectacles, remove them when using binocular. Trust me. It's an uncoated air-to-glass surface. And you will be more comfortable using binocular for long periods without them. However, if you have a severe astigmatism, ignore what I wrote; you'll need your glasses.

7. One last thing. Much will be made of "light gathering" of large objective lenses. Maximum pupil dilation when you're young is 5 mm. When you reach my age, maximum has been reduced to about 3.75 mm.
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