my new numbers from my ultimate with pyro pellets

[DEPUTY]

200p  300shockwave 3 3 shot avg 2400
250 grain charge 300 shockwave  avg 2598

200 grain charge  375 grain barnes  .475 dia.  2251fps

4 pellet load .45 barnes spitfire 285 grain,  2439avg

weird one was this 40cal dc 240 in  tan sabot and mmp 50cal  2438? humm

triple 7 numbers to come  since i have blown acl thanks to a drunk last night ill have some time

[RandyWakeman]

250 grain charge 300 shockwave  avg 2598

And no felt recoil? :wink:

[DEPUTY]

nope not bad at all with 10 pound gun and a sims pad, actually like a 12 gauge slug gun semi auto, triple 7 should be better numbers

[grouse]

Deputy,
         Okay, that's pretty fast. How does it shoot?

[RandyWakeman]

250 grain charge 300 shockwave  avg 2598

 :eek: http://www.ultimatefirearms.com/products.html

Okay, Deputy, here we go . . .

1) Why are you exceeding the maximum charge by 25%?

2) "Ultimate Firearms" claims the gun is "tested to over 125,000 PSI breech pressures." Like how, and where?

3) The gun is not smokeless rated. Why not?

4) For a retail price of $1449, can't we do better than a Howa trigger?

At $20 per box of 100 Pyrodex pellets, your little corrosive 4 pellet load costs .80 cents per shot in pellets alone. A Savage 10ML-II gets you there with 12 cents or so of powder, no corrosive residue, no swabbing. You'll also get a better user-adjustable trigger, N/C.

You can pick up a Savage 10ML-II stainless / synthetic for $450 or so, and is a non-4473 arm that needs no repriming of brass cases to fire. The extra $1000 you save will likely also buy you a very nice recoil pad of your choice, one heck of a stick of wood, -- or two more Savage 10ML-IIs in stainless / laminated, if you choose.

Or you can buy a hand-worked Henry Ball Limited Edition by Henry Ball himself (shameless plug) with triple pillar bedding done from scratch, and take the remaining $649 and tell your girl to "get herself something nice."

BTW, the Savage is actually smokeless rated as well.  Thought you might have heard that? :wink:

[DEPUTY]

lol randy,  the gun is more than capable of shooting 250 grains thanks.
browning arms in utah
it isnt something that is advertised but i have shoot it as have others since it isnt legal here in michigan and others who cares i get good enough numbers with my little pellets  
my howa is set at a nice crisp 2.5 pounds
the one on the rem 40x action is even nicer
4473 who care's not me
who cares what the girl wants she has a job get her own gift
savage is a nice gun yes! less expensive yes!
grouse i just shot a 10 shot 100yd group of just a shade over an inch with 200 grains of t7 pellets and 300sst

 i wont mention the 55grains of 5744 i have shot

[DEPUTY]

after going to toby's sight and checking his load info again, isee why your upset, with my little pyro pellets iam still faster than those smokless ones by over 100+fps

oh yeah also no vent liner or breech plug to remove! never.





hey kid, my dad can beat up your dad! :roll

[RandyWakeman]

who cares what the girl wants she has a job get her own gift

So much for the hopeless romantic in you.  

The commonly ignored component of firearms is always ballistic coefficient, 100 fps at the muzzle means next to nothing at 150 yards. :oops:

[DEPUTY]

So true, romance? unless she buys me a new schimit and bender scope, she will never see a romantic side of me  

waiting on my 300dc to be tested, with t7  just got a new shepard scope for testing,  suposed to be matched for the gun 300 grain bullet at 2400fps
we will see

b.c. very important very true

[grouse]

after going to toby's sight and checking his load info again, isee why your upset, with my little pyro pellets iam still faster than those smokless ones by over 100+fps

oh yeah also no vent liner or breech plug to remove! never.





hey kid, my dad can beat up your dad! :roll

No reason to be upset. 200grns of 777 sounds like alot of recoil that i dont need to shoot Deer or anything else. :eek:

[DEPUTY]

never upset just having fun.  the 200 grain charge is not bad at all i shot almost 35 rounds the other day from the bench with no issues! it is a lot less than  you think in a good weight gun and stock design! the thumbhole boyds helps a lot as does the sims pad

Calculated Table
Elevation: 4.192 moa
Azimuth: 0.000 moa

Range Velocity Energy Momentum Drop Windage Lead Time
(yards) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs) (lbs-sec) (inches) (inches) (inches) (sec)
0 2598.0 4495.9 3.46 -1.5 -0.0 0.0 0.000
50 2406.0 3855.9 3.21 0.0 0.4 10.6 0.060
100 2222.9 3291.3 2.96 -0.0 1.7 22.0 0.125
150 2047.0 2791.0 2.73 -1.8 3.9 34.4 0.195
200 1879.7 2353.5 2.50 -5.6 7.2 47.9 0.272
250 1722.0 1975.3 2.29 -11.9 11.7 62.5 0.355
300 1574.7 1651.7 2.10 -21.2 17.6 78.6 0.447
350 1439.7 1380.7 1.92 -34.0 25.0 96.1 0.546
400 1319.7 1160.0 1.76 -50.9 34.0 115.3 0.655

[AndyHass]

Heaven forbid someone not want to shoot smokeless out of a muzzleloader.  :eek:
    There are many reasons one might want to push the limits without going smokeless.  Namely, it happens to be illegal in many places (like MI) for deer.  Some people just like a gun that smokes.  Others like to be able to measure their charges with a simple volumetric measure instead of carrying a bunch of dippers around, or having to pre-weigh everything.
    How much of a kickback are you getting on ML-IIs now???  We all enjoy the useful sharing of muzzleloading knowledge but your posts (indeed, most of the threads you have started recently) are beginning to sound more and more like sales pitches.  
    Can't we just go back to talking ABOUT the guns rather than pushing them?  I get enough spam over email without coming here for it.... :?

[DEPUTY]

i would never try to sell something to  anyone, just good info!  the only reason it is posted as it was asked for at certain times!  not saying it is the gun all should own,  i like it and it fits me good! and its accurate, just like a few others and the savage, omega, encore, knight crowd  which i own a few of those as well. to each is own in what they want to buy, this board is fo rsharing info and ideas and loads etc.... we are just having a good natured he said she said!  i still shoot my knight and encore, gave my omega to a female friend.(romance)?

[grouse]

Deputy,
       I think andy is talking about me. He for some reason doesnt think
we are talking about guns. :? Since i need to explain myself to you Andy, i will.
My favorite gun to date, is the T/C Encore with 2- 777 pellets and DeadCenter bullets. The last time i shot this gun, it smoked. As far as my comment to Deputy, was about the recoil with 200grns of 777. I have shot plenty of deer with 2 pellet loads. 200grns is alot of powder. IMO, That much powder is not needed to harvest Deer, or anything else in the Country. Plus, i dont like alot of recoil. Deputy has no problem using that much powder, and he is comfortable using and shooting it. If you are really concerned about what i do for a living or sell, please email me at  hunttrky2@zoominternet.net So i can answer anymore questions you have about me. Or heck, you can call me.

[Underclocked]

Grouse, I don't think Andy was talking to you.   :lol:

[AndyHass]

Easy guys, I wasn't talking about either one of you.  I'm extremely interested in your data Deputy, awhile back I was involved in a group trying to get a discount on a lot of those guns and I am interested to see in what I missed out on due to my lack of funds (or, more appropriately, lack of but-honey-I-don't-have-one-of-these funds).  I'd love to see a shot of your groups (or measurements) and see how the PR bullets do out of it.
    My problem was with Randy's constant harping on the Savage.  We know it's a good gun.  We know its attributes.  But the sales-pitch-like fervor that he has had with that gun on multiple sights, throwing physics and relevance to the wind, bothers me.
    You posted data on your Ultimate.  It was immediately turned into a knock-down and promotion of the Savage for no good reason.   THAT was my problem.
    I look forward to ALL of your experiences with the Ultimate!  

[RandyWakeman]

   You posted data on your Ultimate.  It was immediately turned into a knock-down and promotion of the Savage for no good reason.   THAT was my problem.
   

Deputy and I have had some good-natured "give and take" going on for some time, both on the phone and here. The folks at U. F. seem to have a big problem getting their "specs" in order-- that remains the case.

The most accurate out of the box ML I've shot is a Knight Elite, a Knight Wolverine is likely the best inline on the market for the money, the most fun to carry muzzleloader I have is a Contender G2, and I'm going bear hunting Friday with an Austin & Halleck 420-- 1604 fps out of the muzzle and all.

As to the Savage, you bet I like it-- but I also care little for the "he who dies with the most fps on his chrono wins" game. Muzzle velocity alone is hardly its sole appeal for me. Get a good bullet inside an animal in the right spot, and that's all she wrote. 99% of the time, 100 gr. of T 7 does that.

And it is all subjective, like anything else. :wink:

[grouse]

Grouse, I don't think Andy was talking to you.   :lol:

Sorry Andy, :oops: I thought you was.

[DEPUTY]

oh yeah, well my ford truck, lol  it is all in good nature trust me i will post my 100 and 150 grain charge loads in the near future i shoot a lot of 100 t7 loads while deer hunting, i killed  a huge doe at 145yds last year  with a 250sst i have no trouble with it, but i do like a nice flat fast gun that is legal in michigan, randy good luck on that bear  good hunting shot placement always wins period