Author Topic: Knives for presonal defense (Read 2932 times)

OLDMAN · « **on:** January 11, 2003, 09:55:59 AM »

I am 65 years old. I spend a large part of my time in the mountains as I backpack, hunt, dayhike and the like. Usually I am alone. I am concerned that with all of the crazy people in this world that I may have some kind of trouble that I cannot run away from or otherwise escape from. At 65 I cannot run as fast as I could in my younger years and I never could fight worth a dam. I would like to know the leagality of carring a knife on my belt outside my pants. I realize the answer depends on where you live and many other considerations, but what is the general rules of carring a knife. I live in Kalifornia.

JeffG · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2003, 11:24:19 AM »

I believe that you are held to 3 1/2 inch blades in Calif. and no double edges such as daggers. But check to make sure. You really don't need fighting skills for a knife defense, think of it as a red magic marker...how many marks could you give or receive from somebody armed with one? Knife wounds are very painful and may dissuade most attackers from pressing you.
Fixed blades are easier to put into action, but a little more uncomfortable to wear. Without practice, the fine motor skills needed to open a folding knife may be gone by the time somebody gets you upset enough for you to realize that you need it.
Neck knives are very useful, as you draw them from your "center". Even under stress it will be better. Bud Nealy makes California legal knives. http://www.knifeart.com/knifeart/neck.html
There are cheaper production models also. Columbia River Knife and Tool has excellent products.
Out in the woods, wear it on the outside...gives a message. If you risk wearing it as a concealed weapon, weigh the consequences first. research your target zones and use the "what if" pre-planning. Read up on the subject, and mentally prepare yourself if that's how you decide to go. http://www.booktrail.com/Safety_Survival/Knife%20Fighting%20-%20A%20Practical%20Course.asp
Combine a defensive situation with very loud shouts, such as "Get away! Don't hurt me!" To recruit help from onlookers that may not be aware of your plight. Good luck!

OLDMAN · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2003, 12:22:17 PM »

Jeff,

Great reply Jeff. Thanks. I never carried a knife for defense. I will not start to inform myself on this matter. Thanks again

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2003, 11:43:20 AM »

Never bring a knife to a gunfight!

Can't you legally carry a handgun? If I was in an area I thought I might be in danger I'd either: 1. NOT go there or 2. Carry a handgun.

I do always have a knife on me at all times and have been in some knife fights and so far come out on the winning end. My knife of choice for this is the Cold Stell Tanto worn on the chest upside down as it is intended to be.

Still I'm gonna use a gun before a knife if circumstances allow.

GB

OLDMAN · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2003, 12:16:16 PM »

GB,
I go into Yosemite park backpacking and as you no doubt know they frown on guns. The Cold Stell Tanto is a knifeI know nothing about. Can you tell me about it or steer me in the direction where I can buy one.
But, the knife is not just for the park but for general personal protection. I live in a rual county in the foot hill of the Sierra Nevada Mts. We used to be a quiet backwoods safe place to live. But things change. Our first drive by shooting happened only a few months ago. Teen age gangs are here and here to stay I think.
I agree with your comments about using a gun before I would use a knife. In that area I am prepared for sure. But this is Kalifornia and we live in another world out here. If you find time tell me about the Cold Stell Tanto knife.

Boss Kongoni · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2003, 04:39:57 PM »

1) A weapon is only good if you can get to it.
2) Self defence is about getting away from trouble

A knife is definately a last chance weapon, if someone get that close you don't need a long knife, just a sharp one. You might want to look at Kershaw's black-out or wirlwind. They both have an assitted open spring. Even with arthritic fingers these folders are easy to open, hold a good edge anmd are legal.

As you said at your age, your not going to out run or fight a young thug or crazy. Suprize is you best bet.

If it was my father, I'd have him carry my can of bear spray. These are big 20oz. can that spray 20' and they claim will stop a grizz charge. Maybe maybe not but, they should surpized an attacher. With 20oz. can you'll have enough for more than one bad guy. You can find these at Cabellas

These cans can be worn in a nylon holster. They sell for around $40. THe other nice thing is you can use the reason of bear or wild dog attack as your reason as most people will find that reasonable.

It is a damned shame we have to worry about such things in America.

Joel · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2003, 07:31:06 AM »

My girlfriend carries both Bear Spray AND a knife. Here in Pa, you can carry any length blade(last time I checked) as long as it's in the open and not double edged(legally a dagger). Trouble with "crazies" is, they pretty much disregard the law an if they're out huntin' someone to hassle, I suspect they'll be carrying some thing more than a 3 1/2" blade. Even if they weren't an I was up in those mountains, an some guy(or guys) decided to hassle me I don't think pulling that dinky little blade would stop them. If it were me facing someone with a blade that long, I'd simply grab about an 8 oz or so hunk of that mountain or a good long hunk of fallen wood an have at it. Then if i was REALLY irritated with havin to go through all that work just to have a little "fun", I'd take that wee blade an stick it where the sun don't shine. I mean, if I was a crazy. Sticks an stones can break your bones, you know. What I carry when hiking is fixed sheath knife and a good walking stick with a "hiking"(pointed metal) tip. Only have had one "incident" so far an that fool wasn't impressed at all with my knife(neither was I) but 6 feet of metal tipped wood definitely got his attention. However, If it had been more than one, I suspect even then I'd have been SOL. Something like Bear Spray has more range, an can handle multiple attackers(up to a point) somethin, unless you really well trained, you're not going to do with that blade.

OLDMAN · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2003, 08:13:35 AM »

Joel,
I agree with you about little knifes. I have been checking neck knives and I am not impressed with the length of the blades. Then if the blade is long it would be heavy and a pain in the butt to have it swinging from my neck. I think I will stick with my belt knife which has a blade of about 5 inches. I may try to position it on my person so it will be easier to get to than on my side or on the side of my backpack. Thanks everybody for the replies.

cpobb · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2003, 10:28:23 AM »

My 2 cents worth on this subject comes from a personal experience.
I give personal Safety presentations as part of my job and I tell the average citizen that an edged weapon is probably not the best choice for defense unless they are VERY well trained on the use it. As GB said, I also carry a knife (or 2) at all times but for utility or last ditch defense if someone gets my gun away from me. I carry a Cold Steel voyager in my left pocket.

That beiing said, many years ago I had the misfortune of taking a 6" double edged dagger (boot knife style) to the hilts in my abdomen slightly left of center. The circumstances of this injury are too embarrassing to reveal in public I'm afraid. I was pumped up on nothing other than adrenoline at the time but did not realize I was cut until I reached my hand into my shirt and pulled it out covered in blood. I felt no pain, only a ripping feeling. The wound did not stop me from calmly walking to a phone to call for help. I did not keel over a die on the spot as Hollywood would have you believe. If I had been an attacker and received that wound, it would not have even slowed me down. Just something to consider before sticking the bad guy!

Barry Ross · « **Reply #9 on:** February 19, 2003, 01:47:05 PM »

I sympathize with you folks in the Socialist Workers' Paradise of Kalifornia.
Don't know the legality of knives down there.
My first recommendation would be to leave that commie cesspool.
Washington is a right to carry state, as is Oregon, Nevada, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming.

Unless I'm at work, I carry a Glock 27, 2 Spyderco Delica knives, one on each side,
and pepper spray. It's called layered defense. At work I carry one Delica. The sheep just thinks it's a pocket knife.

I think one or more of the prior suggestions are valid:
carry pepper spray AND one or more folding knives.
It is possible to quickly deploy a Spyderco under stress.

There is a Washington outfit that does self-defense training including knives.
Insights Training Center in Bellevue, WA.
www.insightstraining.com
I have had several classes and I think highly of them.
I believe they do some classes in Kalifornia.

Keep your radar on wherever you go.

Joel · « **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2003, 01:01:07 PM »

That 6 foot, metal tipped walking stick I mentioned in my post above carries a "tip" made out of 1/4 inch hardened stainless steel rod 3 1/2 inches long sharpened to a 'Hiking" tip("but officer, it's just a hiking stick I made"). Not quite a spear, but that jerkbreath I was facing quieted down some when I pulled it out of the ground and held it kinda horizontal. Doesn't really look all that lethal 'till you point it at someone. My neighbor calls it a spear, but then she's been reading too many Tarzan books to her wee boy.

I am CAL......... · « **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2003, 01:26:42 PM »

Well I am like BW.I sort of like the minnie 22 mag. I believe it is better to possibly be in jail than the cemetery. After two heart attacks and open heart surgery,I can't fight or run.If I do either one I'm gonna die so thats why I choose the minnie mag.But this just me and my two cents worth.I sure don't want to hurt anyone OR get hurt either! I am CAL........

JeffG · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2003, 12:18:09 PM »

Another thing to consider when speaking about self defense. You have all mentioned it...subject vs subject factors, I'll explain.
You are 65, your opponent...20? Who brought the fight to the areana...he did.
Did you feel in danger? Yes!
What were your options? Fight or run. Why didn't you run?
Couldn't, or it was obviously not going to work.
Why did you use a level UP in force? If I met his level of force I would tire sooner, and he would win, victimizing me.
Why such a big knife? I chop a lot of fire wood and dig roots... :wink:

Why did you cut/stab/shoot him 5 times? I have never been involved in a fight for my life and panicked, he kept coming, and felt if I didn't put him down, he would have killed me.
See how you honestly and legitimately articulate use of force with a little planning?

Later...JeffG

S.B. · « **Reply #13 on:** March 26, 2003, 05:33:51 PM »

Get in touch with Randall Made Knives in Florida. They have made some of the best custom knives for your purpose for several dcades. Expensive but ask yourself, how much am I worth? You can get around the waiting period by using some of the people who keep them in stock.

wormbobskey · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2003, 05:27:35 AM »

I agree. I do a lot of Head hunting (arrowheads) throughout the spring summer and fall and have always carried a 5 1/2' long spear. Its mainly used as a walking stick and for flipping over rocks in fields, but has been used to disseude free ranging dogs from attacking. I have never had to use it on a person, but one guy came running at me from acroos a field yelling at me that I wasn't allowed to be on that property. He stopped short when he saw the 5 inch spear blade on my walking stick. Turns out he was trepassing and was told by the land owner not to come back. I always carry a pocket knife and where approperiate a Shrade Deerslayer fixed blade on my side. I don't think either would have helped me in the situation with the trepasser as he wouldn't have seen them until he was to close. The fact that I had a walking stick didn't seem to matter to him either, but that double-edged spear blade did seem to spark something in his otherwise dull-witted stare. Worm :wink:

dragthewaters · « **Reply #15 on:** May 11, 2003, 03:45:30 PM »

give it 5 years and you will be lucky if it is legal to carry a thumb tack

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** May 15, 2003, 08:25:01 PM »

Oldman, sorry for the delay. I don't get to this forum often and have just now noticed your request for additional info on the Cold Steel Recon Tanto I tote. Here is a photo of it:

You can find it on Cold Steel's website at this URL:

http://www.store.yahoo.com/csstoreonline/13rtk.html

Here is some copy from their site to describe it for you:

"Our superb Japanese Tantos are still unsurpassed for fit and finish, but financially they are beyond the reach of many knife lovers. Now they have combined classic Tanto styling, the strength of Carbon V, and a comfortable, western-style handle in a very affordable package. The Recon Tanto is redefining the standard for combat knives. It is fast becoming the preferred fixed blade for SWAT teams and special military units."

Specifications:
Blade: 7"
Handle: 4 3/4"
Overall: 11 3/4"
Thick: 3/16"
Weight: 9oz.
Comes with a black epoxy powder coat finish.

Again sorry for the delay. I get to many of the forums so seldom that it is really best to PM or e-mail me if I don't get back to you on a post in a couple of days.

GB

chk · « **Reply #17 on:** May 25, 2003, 04:27:24 PM »

I have a Gerber Covert Compact folder I bought about three years ago. It has a 3.75" blade of which 3.5" has an edge. It has a pocket clip and is light and compact. There are two blade styles. A double tapered of which only one side is sharpened and a more conventional style clip point blade style. They aren't cheap but are a quality knife. Dave

TravisM. · « **Reply #18 on:** July 02, 2003, 11:13:38 AM »

If you are still in the market, check out some of the cold steel folders.
I recently recieved the "More Proof" DVD from CS, they demonstrate their products and it is impressive what they can do with small neck knives, but, A medium fixed blade or Large folder would be my choice.
I am a firm believer in CS knives. I have a large voyager that I carry every day. It doesnt take up much space clipped to my pocket, its always there if I need it, and it holds an edge forever (thru 5 deer before it needed resharpened).

JACKNZ · « **Reply #19 on:** July 18, 2003, 01:49:37 PM »

Yeah I,m geting on a bit now an I don,t run as fast as I once did.In the
areas I hunt we get a lot of pot growers they don,t tend to have guns as in NZ it is hard for them types to get a gun,But that don,t make em, any less likely to get uppity if they think your to close to their pot plants.I carry a big machete,it,s not good for much really but it puts the fear up em, I run into these types now an then,they arn,t hard to spot.I place my hand on the handle an look em, in the eye,They get the point an stay polite.IT,S A STRANGE WORLD..LOL..Jack

v8r · « **Reply #20 on:** February 20, 2005, 05:39:26 PM »

Spyderco Bob Lum Tanto.All you have to do is get the blade started with your thumb,and flick you wrist.It's open.Carry a Handgun if you can.Get a concealed carry permit.

Doc TH · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2005, 07:16:58 PM »

Agree with the "walking stick" spear. You have the advantage of range and a variety of attacks - blunt or sharp. Most experts (I'm not) believe a staff is superior to a knife.
But what about a hatchet with a reasonably long handle? It looks like a "woodsy" tool, non-threatening, probably (?) legal. And unlike cpobb's experience, I am almost certain if you were struck with one you would notice right away. I have treated a number of hatchet/axe accidents, and an arm injury nearly always renders the arm useless. Axes/tomahawks have had a long history in wargare, for good reasons.

buffalobob · « **Reply #22 on:** February 28, 2005, 12:58:10 PM »

I agree with the walking stick, it is more practical and helpful in other ways.

If you want a fixed blade knife for only fighting, then Gerber is bringing back the double edged commando knife. This knife has only one purpose and is worthless for any other purposes.

If you want a folding knife that is good only for fignting and reasonable to carry in your pocket try the Columbia River Knife and Tool company M-16. It has a very good opening assist device that is fast and easy. I do not care for a Tanto blade myself and prefer the spear point. The 3 1/2 blade is adequate if you know what to do with it.

There are only a couple of ways to kill a man with a knife and these knives do not come with instructions on how to do that, nor do they come with a bottle of courage and determination.

De Oppresso Libre

Author Topic: Knives for presonal defense (Read 2932 times)

Barry Ross