Author Topic: Cast bullets in 45-70 (Read 946 times)

Wlscott · « **on:** June 14, 2004, 04:44:01 AM »

I loaded up some 405 grain hard cast lead bullets from National Bullet Company for the 45-70 and went out and tried them out yesterday.

I can't get any kind of accuracy out of these bullets at all.

The rifle is an H&R Ultra with a 22" 45-70 barrel from the accessory program. The rifling is micro groove. The load is a 405 grain RNFP hard cast with one lube groove. I used H4198 powder, and Federal LR primers. They were loaded to just kiss the lands, and that put me right at the top of the crimp groove. I applied a medium crimp to them with the Hornady New Dimension dies that I use.

After every five shot group, I punched the tube with a patch soaked with Hoppes #9. I noticed that the patch was coming out the end of the barrel covered with "slivers" of lead. Once I got these slivers out, and punched it again, I got mostly powder fouling on the patch.

Is it possible that because of the micro groove rifling, I need to size bullets for this rifle a thou or two smaller? The bullets mic'ed at .458" so I figured that they were ok to shoot in this gun.

On a positve note, the 265 grain hard cast bullets and the 300 grain hard cast bullets shot great in my 44MAG Super Redhawk. It really liked the 300 grainers.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #1 on:** June 14, 2004, 05:51:56 AM »

Other way round, Wlscott. You need them fatter and you probably need them softer. .460 is none too big.

Powder charge also matters. How much of that 4198 are you using? Somewhere around 30-32 grains should be about right starting off with cast.

Lee C459-405-HB as cast with Liquid Alox work wonderfully for me.

Wlscott · « **Reply #2 on:** June 14, 2004, 06:09:03 AM »

DJ, I don't cast my own (yet), so I don't have acess to the equipment. How hard would it be to talk you into casting some of those for me? I'd pay you for them. Are they 405's?

I wasn't real impressed with the .458's from NBC. They seemed to have a lot of wrinkles and voids in the surface of the bullets. The .429's were pretty good looking bullets though. These were sample packs that I bought from them. I wonder if they send culls out for the sample packs??

Anyway, let me know about the bullets. I'll pay whatever the materials cost you, and whatever you think your time is worth (within reason :lol: ).

If I can get cast bullets to shoot in my 45-70, I'll probably jump off into the world of casting my own with both feet :?

Edit: I am loading from 39 grains of H4198 up to 44 grains as per the Lyman Cast Bullet Loading hand book. I was getting just under 1600 fps at the lowest charge, and up around 1650 or a little more at 41 grains. I quit there and started with the 44MAG because of the amount of lead I was getting out of my rifle barrel. You think that's too heavy of a charge for the Ultra? The primers were rounded and looked very good. No flattening or cratering at all. This is actually an easier load to shoot than those 300 grain Remy's that I loaded up initially for this gun.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #3 on:** June 14, 2004, 08:05:04 AM »

Email me a snail mail address and I'll send you some samples. No charge, just pass a favor on to the next guy who needs it.

1600 fps is way too fast for PB cast bullets in Handi barrels. 1200 is more realistic getting started. 1400 fps has been reported by JPH, but I have not gotten around to trying his load yet. In my experience, it takes GCed bullets for higher velocities.

While you are waiting, you might clean the bore real thoroughly and try the bullets you have over 12.5 grains of Unique. That gives about .22 lr velocities and excellent accuracy with 405 cast. If that doesn't work, you can pretty much blame the bullets.

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #4 on:** June 14, 2004, 08:15:14 AM »

Wlscott

"Edit: I am loading from 39 grains of H4198 up to 44 grains as per the Lyman Cast Bullet Loading hand book." I was getting just under 1600 fps at the lowest charge, and up around 1650 or a little more at 41 grains."

You are pushing a plain based cast bullet (probably a bevel based bullet too) pretty fast for best accuracy. The hard wax lube is also part of the leading problem. I suggest you try two simple things. First get a bottle of Lees Liquid Alox lube and tumble lube the bullets per the instructions, you can leave the old hard wax lube on if you like or remove it. Second is to drop the charge of 4198 down and try 31 to 34 grains. That should put you into the 1400 to 1500 fps range which generally is the velocity range that gives the best accuracy. The .458 size should be ok for your barrel.

Larry Gibson

Wlscott · « **Reply #5 on:** June 14, 2004, 09:57:05 AM »

DJ, you've got a PM.

I am going to go pick up a lead removal kit from my local gun shop right now so I can clean both guns thoroughly before I do any more shooting.

Can I pull these cast bullets with an inertia puller and safely load them again? I have some Unique, but no bullets left that aren't already loaded.

John Traveler · « **Reply #6 on:** June 14, 2004, 10:10:18 AM »

WLscott,

I agree with the others. You loaded your cast bullet cartridges too warm and that's why they gave poor accuracy.

I've loaded several hundreds of "store bought" .45-70 405 grain bullets and got poor accuracy with anything faster than 1400-1500 fps. Dropping the velocity down to 1300 to duplicate old Government ballistics gave acceptable, but not outstanding accuracy. I use IMR 4198 or IMR 3031 in starting load levels for best groups.

Casting your own bullets gives you the ultimate control in bullet quality, hardness, lubricant, and bore size. These are all critical factors in getting the best performance from your Microgroove barrel. I've stopped buying factory cast slugs since making my own.

YES, you can safely pull your loads using an inertial puller and reload them with Unique. Use little or no crimp for your single shot rifle.