Dumb question, but...

[Questor]

Is there really a difference in killing power between the 30-06, 300 Win Mag, and the high velocity Lazzeroni's?  I guess flatter trajectory is an advantage, but are the magnums really more capable?

It seems to me that if I wanted something more powerful than a 30-06, I'd get a 338 or something with a larger diameter.

[Wlscott]

Well, the way I understand it......speed kills.  

If you drive two projectiles of the same size and shape at two different velocities, the one with the higher velocity will have more energy upon impact.  So a 300WM shooting a 180 grain bullet will carry more energy than a 30-06 with a 180 grainer.  

Velocity figures into every energy equation I have seen.  If the velocity increases, and the mass of the projectile stays the same, enerty increases.  The projectile will also carry it's energy further with more velocity.  

Now, I'm no physicist (More of a chemist really), but this is the way I understand it.

Edit:  I wouldn't call it a dumb question either.  I am curious to see how others that know more about it answer your question.

[ButlerFord45]

'Tis my opinion, you just answered your own question.

[Questor]

I don't think I answered it. I'd really like to know what people who have experienced them all have found to be true.

[Rmouleart]

Wescott hit it on the head as far as I'm concerned, Now jump 338winmag now you increased powder cap and dia & larger bullet capacity, larger Meplat plays in equation as well. Depends on how big of a game animal you need to expire. Using the right tool for the job is the bottom line in most cases, everything else falls into place. I have seen a bull moose hit 4 times in the kill zone using a 30/06 and the animal still did not expire right away, using 180gr  remcorelokts at 60 yards, first three wheeled around like he was looking for what bit him, the fourth put him down. I also seen a bull moose of similar size dropped where he stood using a 338win mag using a 250gr bullet,at 200 yards, the exit hole told the story. you could put your fist in it. I prefer to drop them where they stand. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

[Questor]

Me too, Remoulart. There's nothing more satisfying than seeing a quick kill.  What do you recommend for the bigger north American game animals?

[New Hampshire]

Is there really a difference in killing power between the 30-06, 300 Win Mag, and the high velocity Lazzeroni's?  I guess flatter trajectory is an advantage, but are the magnums really more capable?

It seems to me that if I wanted something more powerful than a 30-06, I'd get a 338 or something with a larger diameter.

I guess it depends on the range.  You shoot a deer at 100 yards with either cartridge and get two holes on each side then they will kill just the same.  But even still, a properly placed shot (assuming right choice of projectile,) should kill just the same.  Sure shocking power can be increased by adjusting certain things like Meplats or going to heavier bullets.
So in short it all comes down to "what ya killing and at what range?"
Brian M.

[bgjohn]

Remember, velocity goes away, bullet mass doesn't!
JM

[The Shrink]

Wilscott.

An interesting juxtaposition:  A praise of velocity as the killing factor and the announcement of the Archery season!  

Obviously there is more to killing the game than velocity!  I'm amazed at those who think the 7mm Mag. is minimum to kill deer that aren't much larger than a dog.  For some of them the 30-06 appears to be overkill.  It all depends on matching the effectiveness of the round to the game animal amd the effectiveness of the hunter.

Remember that Bell used 6.5 and 7mm Mausers on Elephant successfully, untill the last one!

Wayne the Shrink

[Wlscott]

Point taken Wayne.  But you also have to understand that an arrow kills in a different way than a bullet does.  The razor sharp broad head slices through tissue and causes massive hemmoraging.  A bullet destroys tissue by dumping massive amounts of energy into it.  It crushes everything in its path, and plows a hole through anything in its way.  

I'm not trying to say that velocity is the ONLY factor in killing power.  Questor's original question was comparing bullets of the same diameter and mass, at different speeds.  It's a fact that two bullets of the same diameter and mass will have more energy at the target if one of them is traveling faster.  I will stick by that argument all day long :grin:

My 300WSM with a 165 grain Nosler partion @ 3000+ fps will definately kill an elk deader than a hammer.  But what if we slow that down to, say, the velocity I load my 45ACP IPSC match ammo (730 fps), and shot that elk at the same distance?  The projectile will not be carrying as much energy at the target, and the result will be MUCH different.  Sure, my 45-70 that chucks a 405 grain hard cast lead bullet out at around 1300 fps will also kill an elk just as effectively as my 300.  But with the price of non-resident elk tags, I'll keep carrying my 300, just in case I have to take a shot past 150 yards :lol:

I've heard the arguments about killing extremely large animals with such and such cartridges.  I don't think that is relevant here.  The question was:

Is there really a difference in killing power between the 30-06, 300 Win Mag, and the high velocity Lazzeroni's?

And I submit that there is a difference due to velocity.

[williamlayton]

does not  speed insure, more effectively, penetration? I'm thinking that penetration is a key to big game.
Lets examine some of the thought, brought up by others on this subject, concerning side arms in the woods. A .45 on a bear is not as effective as a 10mm from a like side-arm.
Penetration is a key and not knowing what the bullet will hit before it penetrates gives a good arguement to speed.
Justa thought.
Blessings

[Wlscott]

Mr. Layton, you are correct.  Increase velocity and you will increase penetration (all things being equal).  

But only if you are shooting a projectile that is DESIGNED to penetrate.  If you are talking about a projectile that is designed to EXPAND, and you increase velocity, you now have a small bomb :wink:  and no penetration.

[New Hampshire]

And for these reasons the answer to the origional post is not very easy to anwer at all.  Too many factors involved and not enough specifics.
Brian M.

[savageT]

Question:
Recall the early days of the .223 in Viet Nam combat?  I heard unbelievable stories of what a very small .22 caliber bullet could do to a man when struck at 3000 fps plus!  Are we talking hypervelocity verses the tried and true.308 and 30-06 @ 2400fps???  Just wondered?

Jim

[Wlscott]

And for these reasons the answer to the origional post is not very easy to anwer at all. Too many factors involved and not enough specifics.

NH, that's what makes it so fun to answer :grin:

[Tom W.]

I wonder, How dead do you want said animal?I think everyone here has had one shot kills, probably more times than not. I use a .270 or a 30/06 and don't worry about which one is going to do a better job of killing. The strange thing is that I like light,fast 130 gr. bullets in the .270, and slow heavy, 180 gr. bullets in the 30/06.  My boys shoot 140 gr. bullets in their 7mm Mags. Placement is the key.
I'd better stop now before I start to ramble... :oops:

[papajohn428]

bgjohn wrote: Remember, velocity goes away, bullet mass doesn't!

That's true, as long as the bullet doesn't come apart!  Hence the need to match the bullet construction to the game, the distance and the velocity.  I'll give up velocity for weight, as long as it doesn't make the range too long for the trajectory!

What's a well-constructed bullet worth when that 10-pointer walks into view?  A lot less than you paid for it!

PJ