Author Topic: New Bullet for the 45/70 (Read 888 times)

Big Blue · « **on:** June 16, 2004, 03:55:06 PM »

I stopped at T+T Bullets yesterday, and picked up a box of Barnes 400 gr. XFB bullets. They are a solid copper hollow point spitzer style bullet, not meant for a tube magazine. The bullet is 1.3" long, with a hollow point 1/2" deep that's meant to peel back to form petals, and retain 100% of it's weight. I loaded a few tonight, and had to play with the COL to get them to fit the chamber of the BC. They ended up at 2.93" COL. I used Varget powder because of it's low pressure in the 400 gr. loads, 55.0 gr. C max. load at 25,000 CUP, and 50.0 gr. min. load at 18,600 CUP. I hope to try them tomorrow to check for pressure signs, and if that goes well, I'll work on loading some for accuracy. I imagine they were engineered for the 458 Win. Mag., but with only about 250 FPS difference between the 45/70 and the 458 Win Mag. in the 400 gr. load, they should work. They should make one heck of a hunting round.
Don

handirifle · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2004, 07:07:46 PM »

Probably be just the ticket for water buffalo :wink:

It would be a great idea for states that doesn't allow "solids" for hunting. It is still an expanding bullet, with the impact and penetration of a solid, but with more tissue damage cause it expands. How much were they?

JBKERNS · « **Reply #2 on:** June 17, 2004, 02:25:35 AM »

Keep those reports coming!

Big Blue · « **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2004, 03:42:57 PM »

At $17 and change for 20, they come a bit expensive compared to Remington 405's or cast bullets. With the long bullet length, I had to load them deeper into the case, giving me some pressure concerns. That's the reason for using Varget. I could feel it took a bit of pressure to compress the powder. I didn't get a chance to try them today, 12 hours work, followed by a thunder storm, but I'm off tomorrow and will definitely try them. I might even use some wet newsprint for a medium to test their expansion and penetration. I know that's not an ideal medium, but it's the best I can think of. I'll let you know how the pressure issue works out. I may strap the gun down and use a long piece of string on the trigger. :lol:
Don

JPH45 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2004, 03:57:29 PM »

This has nothing to do with your post, but I have thought more than a few times of having a bullet mold cut for a bullet of 250 grains but sized at 459 to have a plinker for my 45-70. If there is any drawback to the 45-70 this is it, there are simply no lightweight bullets of proper size with which to ventilate beer cans and paper. It will be interesting to see how your experiment with the Barnes works out.

handirifle · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2004, 07:05:38 PM »

JPH
You're right. A 240gr plinker at about 1400fps wouldn't kick at all and would still pack a whallop at the other end. Could even be loaded down to 1000 or so and still be good to 100yds for small to med game.

I have a whole box of .429 230gr cast, just wonder if they could be paper patched? Not sure how hard they are.

Wlscott · « **Reply #6 on:** June 18, 2004, 03:44:14 AM »

Handi, I wonder if you could patch 'em with teflon tape?

Cottonwood · « **Reply #7 on:** June 18, 2004, 03:56:58 AM »

Quote from: JPH45

This has nothing to do with your post, but I have thought more than a few times of having a bullet mold cut for a bullet of 250 grains but sized at 459 to have a plinker for my 45-70. If there is any drawback to the 45-70 this is it, there are simply no lightweight bullets of proper size with which to ventilate beer cans and paper. It will be interesting to see how your experiment with the Barnes works out.

JPH45 - In Pat Wolf's book on Loading for the Springfield Trapdoor Rifle they talk of just this thing. There is information about loading what is called a "Gallery Load". I have loaded these before and they work at short ranges. You can use a muzzleloader ball, that fits just inside the case compressed down to the powder charge which was black powder. These made a great plinking and practice load for the soldiers.

I have also used a 250-gr cowboy bullet that was hollow base for a .45 Cold which is .451 dia. but the hollow base allowed the base to flair or bump up when fired. Agian I used black powder as my charge for this load.

But if you want accuracy stick with a bullet of proper dia size for the bore etc....

Casting your own bullets is by far the cheapest way to go.... :-)

I remember when I got my first mold... a friend of mine sent me the Lee .459-405-HB as a gift and I started casting with 99.999% lead that I found at the recycling place. But Lee molds are only good for about 500 castings and then they start to warp and lead begun to leak. The nice thing is Lee replaces their molds if they do this.

For target work, I don't care about bullet hardness.... I'm over stocked on super hardcast bullets in wieght grains from 400-gr to 550-gr. But when hunting season comes around I will be using a 30:1 soft cast .500-gr elk buster bullet that a friend sent to me from his new Steve Brooks mold.

Deadeye47 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 18, 2004, 05:32:45 AM »

Quote from: JPH45

This has nothing to do with your post, but I have thought more than a few times of having a bullet mold cut for a bullet of 250 grains but sized at 459 to have a plinker for my 45-70. If there is any drawback to the 45-70 this is it, there are simply no lightweight bullets of proper size with which to ventilate beer cans and paper. It will be interesting to see how your experiment with the Barnes works out.

Myself JPH45. And talk about hyjacking a thread....several years ago I believe it was Lyman..offered a mold of a bullet called a buttonhole style bullet. I remember it had one big lube grove running around the bottom and the nose looked kinda funny. I can't remember what it weighed but was very light for the 45-70. I thought about ordering one for the heck of it as it was a limited production deal. I don't do any casting though so I didn't order it. I guess my hindsight is better than my forsight. I haven't seen one offered since. Anybody heard about this thing. Apparently it was offered at the turn of the century in catalogs for just an inexpensive bullet (If a New Colt Peacemaker was 19 bucks how much could an "inexpensive" lead bullet at the turn of the century cost?

?) for the 45-70 for target practice and plinkin. :?

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #9 on:** June 19, 2004, 07:08:35 AM »

Don't expect 'em to open up at .45-70 velocities.

Big Blue · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2004, 03:05:50 PM »

I gave the 400 gr. Barnes bullets a try today. I was out backpacking since last Friday, and didn't have a chance to check them before. Mostly I was looking for pressure signs. I had to really compress the powder, to achieve a workable COL of 2.93". I loaded three cartridges, 50.0 gr., 52.5 gr., and 55.0 gr. of Varget powder. This ranges from minimum to maximum charges of Varget and from about 1720 FPS to 1920 FPS. I didn't have time to soak the newsprint long enough for a good medium, so I just shot into pressure treated 6x6's. Every load penetrated two 6x6's so I added a third for the last shot of 55.0 gr. It penetrated the first two, and stopped 3" into the last. There were no negative pressure signs, but the load did feel heavy. The recovered bullet measured .776" across the petals, and mushroomed as advertised. I don't think this is an ideal test for mushrooming, but it did verify that the load was safe in my rifle. I'll try some Benchmark powder next, to try for higher velocities than the Varget is capable of. Hodgdon's H335 might prove to be a superior powder, because of it's less bulk, and less need for compression to get the correct COL. These loads did shoot to POA at 50 yards.
Don