Author Topic: Anti-Inliner Prejudice?  (Read 4847 times)

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Offline RandyWakeman

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Anti-Inliner Prejudice?
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2004, 12:45:29 PM »
Quote
crow-feather

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Location: Idaho
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Gender: Male Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 11:26 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ramrod,

Randy is now trying to turn his "post deleting" into a Traditional vs in-line dispute. He has got to be the king of deception.
___________
 


Your personal version of "innocent, non-personal remarks" is far different from mine.

You are both welcome-- and, quite wrong.

Offline Underclocked

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« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2004, 01:43:13 PM »
Well yes, I guess I was totally out of line in suggesting the whole "issue" of inline vs traditional is less significant than most other things in life.

Especially so since the title of this thread is "Anti Inliner Prejudice" and especially since my remarks seemed to really upset one of the "moderators.  I make no apology for offering my opinion nor do I appreciate being reprimanded by someone I consider to be a radical extremist.  

In fact that person GB has so wisely made moderator has, in the past, attacked me and my views with no intervention from GB whatsoever.  I expect ed no intervention but it seems now GB is making some sort of hinted threat in support of that person???   Name calling??? - I think some folks here either can't read or have their heads planted so far in their rectums as to never see or smell anything but their own excrement.

I purposely avoid traditional forums - and one person on this one in particular - because of previous episodes where simply stating an opinion resulted in ridicule and wrath.   GB seems to think it okay for a radical to pop over from his realm and bestow his bits of "guidance" on me here in the inline forum.  I think that not to be okay at all.

GB more power to ya and I've enjoyed being a member here at times but I think I will simply ask that my membership be cancelled.  There are many forums on this big ol' internet where a person can honestly offer their opinion, offer advice, assist those new to the sport, or just have a bit of fun without being subjugated to the ridicule of extremists living in a self-glorifying fantasy.

Bye fellers.
WHUT?

Offline crow_feather

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« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2004, 02:20:56 PM »
Wow Randy,
Talk about personal attacks. I guess for sure you're gonna, delete that post huh?

Hey, next time you visit the Traditional forum, leave some word about those side locks you've been shooting.  You are always welcome.

C F
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline sabotloader

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« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2004, 03:38:55 PM »
OK - it is now starting to go unproductive- Let's stop and get back to the good things about muzzleloading.  We all have our personal thoughts and things are not going to change a bunch on a forum where there is no face to face contact.  Somehow we, the people on this side of the forum have got to let this go - arguing religion and taxes has never been productive.  Nobady here is going to sway cf and Randy is staunch as they come.  Use the good things from each to your advantage and let the rest go.

Holy Cow! let's get back to meaningful business let this thread work its way to the bottom of the page.....
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - they are a blast....

Offline RandyWakeman

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« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2004, 03:44:42 PM »
Quote from: crow-feather

Hey, next time you visit the Traditional forum, leave some word about those side locks you've been shooting.  You are always welcome.

C F


Unlikely. Primitive weapons I enjoy-- and have for some 40 years.

Primitive language, primitive manners, and primitive behavior gets tiresome, however. I'm sure you'll do just quite beautifully without me.
The notion here is to exchange ideas, information, and experiences. Debate is one thing, but when it becomes vitriolic, then little is contributed.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Enjoying the outdoors, hunting and shooting makes me happy-- as I presume it does for many others. Personal equipment choices are just that, and are meaningless to me. I enjoy my personal choices, and I presume others do theirs. That's all they are.

The Internet is unlikely to change anybody's minds, whether you are using a traditional or "modern computer." As far as your demeaning comments against Underclocked, he has introduced more people to muzzleloading then most, taught them to cast their own bullets, and offered encouragement to beginners when no one else could be bothered to do so. You picked a VERY poor and undeserving target for unleashing whatever personal demons might be tormenting you.

Hope you feel better. Right now, I think I'll go shoot a "cartridge gun." :roll:

Offline Batchief909

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« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2004, 05:52:25 PM »
I've been a member here for awile, but mostly read along, as there's alot of good info shared by all. I shoot my flinter 10 times more than I shoot my inlines. Imagine that?! There's room here for all of us. Traditional AND modern. It's all this bullsh!t that gives the antis fuel for their fire. When we fight amongst ourselves, their battle is half won. But to get on UC for stating his opinion is totally uncalled for. Like Randy stated, UC has gone above and beyond to help answer questions when very few would. His knowlege about our SHARED sport goes unsurpassed. If his decision to leave this board is indeed final, we have lost not only a great resource of information, we have also lost a good friend here at GB. I can't really say I blame him.

Offline crow_feather

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« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2004, 06:05:20 PM »
I worked hard on the posts that you deleted for no reason.  I never believed that this "disagreement" was anything other than you deleting posts without reason other than your dislike of certain individuals.  But even you "Randy Wakeman" have to stay within the rules.

Don't try to hide this under any other banner.  Ain't gonna work.

I am finished - Bye

C F
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline whitfang

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UC
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2004, 06:07:38 PM »
Underclocked, I hope you'll stay;  you offer good, often humorous advice.  The rest of us will suffer if you're not here.

Graybeard, what about getting clashes between moderators into a private setting where you can help them work out the "bad blood" between them?

Sabotloader is right, let's let this thread die out.
Encore / Mathews / Rem870 / Savage 10ML

Offline RandyWakeman

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« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2004, 06:14:04 PM »
Quote from: crow-feather
I worked hard on the posts that you deleted for no reason.  I never believed that this "disagreement" was anything other than you deleting posts without reason other than your dislike of certain individuals.  But even you "Randy Wakeman" have to stay within the rules.

Don't try to hide this under any other banner.  Ain't gonna work.

I am finished - Bye

C F


For a very good reason-- full of either personal remarks, waaaay off topic, or containing no potentially redeeming value of any kind, just like your "posting" above.

Offline simonkenton

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« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2004, 01:47:01 AM »
This thread should have stayed locked.
Aim small don't miss.

Offline grouse

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« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2004, 11:05:42 AM »
Quote from: simonkenton
This thread should have stayed locked.


I think i already posted that. GB thinks otherwise. :o

Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2004, 03:18:46 PM »
Quote
Graybeard, what about getting clashes between moderators into a private setting where you can help them work out the "bad blood" between them?



That is what the Moderator's ONLY Forum is for. I've already said to take it there and/or to me personally in a PM or e-mail. I'm still waiting Randy. We need a discussion.

GB


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Longcruise

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« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2004, 03:34:57 PM »
It's a shame that a few highly vocal posters should be able to bring about a discussion of this magnitude on this subject :shock:

Only on the net I guess!

IMO, the vast majority of the participants on this board and the many others on the net really don't have such strong opinions as seem to be evident in this dispute.

I rub shoulders with loads of trad guys and in-line guys regularly and we hunt together to boot and somehow this topic seems to be of little interest when people are relating on face to face personal basis.

sure, there are exceptions, but they are rare.  Unfortunately, on the net the 'exceptions' manage to make themselves appear to be the rule.

Offline grouse

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« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2004, 03:51:17 PM »
Graybeard,
           You seem to run a very clean Forum. I enjoy coming over and taking part in that. You may of lost a very good poster on this forum.(Underclock) You decided to unlock a thread that was locked. As everyone can see now that was a bad decision. One of your other Moderators just wanted to argue about Traditional Muzzleloading/ Inline Muzzleloading. We need alot more people like Underclock on this Forum.
We dont need to lose him. Please get him back.  :(

Offline Ramrod

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« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2004, 12:13:39 PM »
Quote from: RandyWakeman
Quote
crow-feather

Moderator
Location: Idaho
Age:
Gender: Male Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 11:26 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ramrod,

Randy is now trying to turn his "post deleting" into a Traditional vs in-line dispute. He has got to be the king of deception.
___________
 


Your personal version of "innocent, non-personal remarks" is far different from mine.

You are both welcome-- and, quite wrong.


It is quite amazing to me that old Randy used crow-feather's response to my post on the Traditional Muzzleloaders forum without including the original post. I am posting it here for you all to see.



Quote
Crow-feather, good luck handling it in private! I remember a while back, someone posted a shotgun question here, it was about a more modern type. Some fellas tried to steer the guy to a more traditional weapon. Then the entire thread got moved to the Inline forum, by a moderator or whoever. Fine, thats where it should have been posted in the first place. Well the next day I look in and old Randy had deleted every post that even mentioned traditional, and had the nerve to APOLOGIZE to his loyal groupies for THE INTRUSIONS! I think his actions speak clearly about what kind of man he is.


And I think Underclocked should come back now.
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline daddywpb

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« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2004, 12:21:56 PM »
As hunters and shooters, we should band togeather to fight the common enemy - PETA and the anti-hunting groups, and politicians who would love to take away our right to own any kind of firearm. In my opinion, all of this name calling over an ignition system is childish and ridiculous.

Offline Ramrod

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« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2004, 12:45:13 PM »
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals.
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline crow_feather

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« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2004, 01:02:54 PM »
daddywpb,

I wish it were that easy.  Lets say that you don't like carrots.  When someone insists that you eat your carrots, you reply, I don't like them.
Well, there are some that do not like in line rifles or in-line type  equipment and when discussing these rifles, sometimes write, I don't like them.

I really hope your not saying that I have to like in-line rifles or suffer the fate of PETA?  Or that I cannot say, I don't like in-line rifles, because it will cause a wild blow up between me and in-line shooters.  

If you can dislike carrots, why can't I dislike in-line rifles?

I have had discussions with, and greatly respect many people that shoot in-line rifles.  I understand and agree that they have a need to use them.  I wish them the best in their hunting. I consider them friends. They are really nice people.

The person I tend to have a bit of a problem with is the person that wrote this:

Quote
the only reason I ever bought a ML was because the great state of AL decided to have their first ML only season last year. A lot of folks said it was done because of money; if so, I behaved exactly as they wanted and went out and bought my first ML, a Knight Super Disk. I enjoy bow hunting, but I have found the best time of the year to get a decent buck in my area is either in the Jan rut or the first week of the gun season. Since the ML season is the first 5 days this year, I hope to improve my odds of getting a wall hanger. When they approved scopes for this year, I immediately bought one. I want the best gun (within a reasonable price range) that I can get, and I never considered a traditional gun.


Not because he enjoys either type of rifle, just so he can improve his odds.

C F
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline AndyHass

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« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2004, 01:27:37 PM »
I believe what daddywpb was trying to convey is that while we all have our personal likes, dislikes, and preferences, they are just that....personal.  Just because you or I think some way we cannot expect that we are right (or that other people will agree with us).  If we respect others' right to choose, and their right to choose according to THEIR OWN reasons, then it is likely they will respect ours.
   As shooters, we are having an increasingly hard time preserving our rights.  Last weekend I lost an hour of shooting time because a nosy neighbor didn't like me shooting ON MY OWN LAND and called the sheriff on me.  I did nothing wrong, but I had to argue for my own rights.  If we continue to bicker among ourselves, how are we going to stand as a group when the need arises?
   Crowfeather, you say that you respect some people who shoot inlines and consider them friends.  Yet you make it very clear on here that you have a chip on your shoulder with regard to inlines and look down on those who use them.  You hold everyone else accountable to YOUR reasons for hunting and choosing weapons.  That is part of what is causing this whole problem.  You need to respect others' rights to choose for themselves.  If someone wants to choose based on increasing their odds of getting a deer, who are you to say they should do it just because they "enjoy the weapon"?  As I emailed you earlier, some of us have to be motivated by other reasons than simple pleasure.  In my area, I need an inline and 200 yard range to thin the massive Michigan overpopulation of deer devouring my family's crops.  To hell with hunting for pleasure around here...that's what motivates the lease hunters who have locked off large tracts of private land and caused the overpopulation in the first place.
    Actually, hunting for pleasure would not really fit under traditional.  The vast majority of people back in the day hunted for meat and survival.

Offline Ramrod

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« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2004, 01:46:32 PM »
AndyHass
If you have THAT serious an overpopulation problem, why not just pressure your state legislature to make night hunting with a light and a silenced weapon legal? There is a BIG differance between hunting and killing, some folks  seem to be lost on this point.
P.S. Yes Andy you got spanked on the Traditional Muzzleloaders board, but your posts still stand. I hope the next moderator here on this board will at least tolerate a differance of opinion instead of deleting posts from anyone who dissagrees with him.
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline crow_feather

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« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2004, 02:13:43 PM »
................
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline Longcruise

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« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2004, 03:31:55 PM »
Gonna stick my neck out.  Waaaaaay out, and say that I may be speaking for crowfeather.  If I'm not, he'll straighten me out :).

It's not always about choice :shock.

In many areas population management is an issue just as pointed out by one poster in Michigan.  The idea is to whack as many deer as possible.  That's just fine.  When shotgun or ml is dictated, then ml may be the tool of choice by many hunters as a matter of efficiency.  So be it and that is a good thing.  Deer must be killed and weapon limitations overcome will help in that endeavor.

But, it's not always about choice sometimes it's about grabbing an opportunity (crowfeathers inserted quote from the alabama hunter is an example).  So, some guys perceive a better opportunity to kill an animal or special trophy animal by participating in a "primitive" season and of course want to carry as much technological advantage as possible.  They pursue an "end", be it a kill or a trophy kill.

So, we have places like Michigan where the deer are populated to the point of field rat status and alabama, where I believe the deer limit may be one per day!  

Then, we have places like my home, Colorado, where, in general each hunter is allowed one elk and one deer license (not animal) per year.  Actually, the deer thing is not accurate.  All Colorado deer licenses are limited by drawing!!!!!  All Colorado Muzzleloading deer and elk tags are limited by drawing.  We have a special season for deer and elk ml hunting.  It takes place in Sep during the elk rut.  Many resident and no resident hunters would like to take advantage of the opportunity to hunt elk during the rut and prior to the regular rifle elk season harvest.

Now, Colorado has always defined the archery and ml seasons as "recreational" hunts.  They are not considered "management" tools.  The ml season was launched over 30 years ago as a primitive season when in-lines were not yet the tool of "choice" by many ml hunters.  The idea was to provide an opportunity to those hunters who had the desire to pick up a "primitive" ml gun and pursue deer and elk.  The season existed for that reason and that reason alone.  There was no need to field more hunters to thin herds.

Then, along came the in-line (a generic name for any "modern" ml designed to overcome the inefficiencies of the "trad" ml gun.  Noted here for the apologists who will tell me that "in-lines have been around for over a 100 years").  The "in-line" represents the recognition by certain gun manufacturers of a huge "market".  If you build it, they will buy it. For all the reasons stated above;  mainly "opportunity".  Once again, I do not oppose those who take that "opportunity" when it's purpose is to mangage wildlife.

Our ML season in Colorado was created for a certain class of people.  It is a people management tool :shock:   When the people (trad hunters) realized that in-lines werre a threat to the opportunity to engage in a primitive hunt, they took steps to limit the type of ml that could be used.  The dow made regulations to that effect.  The primitive weapons protection rules were withdrawn by the dow under threat of law suits by in-line manufacturers.  Not by hunters!  We ended up with a compromise:  in-lines ok, no sabots, no pellets, no scopes (during the ML season.  They are ok during the rifle season).  Still the whining is endless on the part of the people who build and sell in-lines.

So, what I'm saying (and maybe what crowfeather is saying) is that one needs to look at the intent of the season and the intent of the hunter.

I don't dislike in-lines!!!! :shock:  It's only a tool, a thing, an object.

I do dis-like commercial interests trying to usurp the purpose of our CO ml hunting opportunity for their own end$.

I do believe that that is the reason for many other "trad" shooters having a problem with the in-lines.  It's not all about wearing funny cloths (30 years a trad ml hunter and I don't own any) or going to rendevous.  It's just not that simple

Offline sabotloader

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« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2004, 04:29:53 PM »
I guess I would like to get in here and say: I may be one of those bad guys CF is talking about... I have hunted in Idaho since the early 50's always with centerfire rifles, well several years ago Idaho started a ML season at the end of the regular season an opportunity to hunt longer.  The rules in Idaho, to my knowledge never specified which type of ML for this extended season just needed to be loaded from the muzzle.  My first purchase was a Remington ml-700 which i used that first season 6-7 years ago...  While hunting, a late season hunting opportunity, started me using ML's I have continued ever since.  I rarely ever shoot or use a centerfire at all anymore.  My next purchase was a Lyman Trade rifle, I bought that because I didn't want to keep removing my scope and 209 nipple to hunt in our ML season.  Now I shoot a "traditional" ML more than I ever shoot a in-line but I am not a traditionalists because again according to Idaho rules I can use sabots and copper clad bullets.  

So what all of this does for me is the original thought of an extended hunting season has completely converted me over to ML's during Idaho unique hunting season - Elk season to be specific.  I use an in-line (now a A&H) during Regular Elk Season, the Remington during regular deer season,  a fast twist Thomson 50 during muzzleloading season and either the Lyman 54 or the Thompson Renegade 54 with a patch and ball during Idaho's primitive season if I choose to take that opportunity.

I am now and I truly believe I am a muzzleloader enthusiasist, if loads from the muzzle I like and I will shoot it if given the opportunity,  BUT; all of this started from me trying to take an opportunity to extend my hunting time.  Prior to that time I considered my self a centerfire shooter and hunter would have never thought about using anything else - didn't even think about shotguns - they were for woosses.

Now the part that stings the "true traditionalist" I will use the most advanced thing? (projectile, powder, sights, & etc.) that the rules will allow, either during regular, ML, or primitive season; consequently I do shoot sabots and copper clad bullets a majority of the time.  I believe this makes me a more effective hunter and decreases MY chances of maiming or wounding animals.  I am extremely confident in what I can shoot and when I can shoot with a ML - I know I have to pass some shots that would be a piece cake with the 300.. but you know I don't care it isn't that important any more, I really enjoy being out there with an ML.  I also believe if Jim Bridger had had the same opportunities during his time he would have jump all over them.  He was the most opportunistic MM, hunter, guide, and business man I have ever read about - to bad his eyes got him... but at my age, I am beginning to know what he might have been going through.

Keep shooting ML's - they are a blast
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - they are a blast....

Offline crow_feather

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« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2004, 04:48:44 PM »
sabotloader

I may not care for the equipment you use, except in the primitive season, but I can understand why you hunt the way you do.  I think if a monster buck presented itself, you would shoot it without a second thought.  But I believe that you are not hunting the way you do just for a chance to get that buck.  That is a big difference.  

I wish you the best of luck this year.  May your aim be true and your rifle fire the first time (I hear they have a problem with that :)  :)  :) )

C F
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline AndyHass

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« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2004, 05:35:37 PM »
Quote from: Ramrod
AndyHass
If you have THAT serious an overpopulation problem, why not just pressure your state legislature to make night hunting with a light and a silenced weapon legal? There is a BIG differance between hunting and killing, some folks  seem to be lost on this point.
P.S. Yes Andy you got spanked on the Traditional Muzzleloaders board, but your posts still stand. I hope the next moderator here on this board will at least tolerate a differance of opinion instead of deleting posts from anyone who dissagrees with him.


Spanking?  I don't remember a spanking...just a couple people who couldn't tolerate a difference of opinion and resorted to cheap insults.  In fact parts of my posts WERE removed, and those of yours insulting me left until I complained about the uneven application of the rules.  For those who weren't following both boards, the fact that I dared suggest someone shoot 777 in a sidelock was the spark that started this whole mess and it snowballed from there...ridiculous.  :roll:    I regret ever attempting to visit the Traditional board, I knew from the past the attitudes and personalities that tend to reside in those.  Now we've lost a couple good contributors for sure, and chased away how many others we'll never know.  
   As for your ideas on how to thin the deer population.. why don't you come out here and see for yourself before you go sarcastic.  Killing is part of hunting, unless you leave your gun unloaded or don't practice enough to make a hit.  It takes hunting to get to killing if they're not in a fenced pen...and people have varying reasons for hunting.  
   Even with our massive overpopulation, I have never run into another ML hunter during the ML-only season.  Nobody has ever "shot my deer" because they had an inline and a few yards more range.  What the neighbor shoots has no effect on me.  If your licenses out west are as restricted as you say, all this animousity towards people hunting with inlines is SILLY because they likely don't even affect you.

   I think the poster's original question has been answered pretty well here, and explains the necessity for two boards.  I hope with time the affected posters will return with their knowledge.  Reserve judgement on moderators and people here, we don't know the whole story.  
   Looks like I'll take a hiatus until this mess works its way off the board.  I come here to share and discuss with people who share my love for muzzleloading, not raise my blood pressure from those who can't get along.

Offline poorcountrypreacher

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« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2004, 06:00:24 PM »
"The person I tend to have a bit of a problem with is the person that wrote this:

Quote:
the only reason I ever bought a ML was because the great state of AL decided to have their first ML only season last year. A lot of folks said it was done because of money; if so, I behaved exactly as they wanted and went out and bought my first ML, a Knight Super Disk. I enjoy bow hunting, but I have found the best time of the year to get a decent buck in my area is either in the Jan rut or the first week of the gun season. Since the ML season is the first 5 days this year, I hope to improve my odds of getting a wall hanger. When they approved scopes for this year, I immediately bought one. I want the best gun (within a reasonable price range) that I can get, and I never considered a traditional gun.


Not because he enjoys either type of rifle, just so he can improve his odds. "

Gosh, CF, I was just trying to be honest about my reasons for buying a ML in the first place. Truth is, you are right, I don't like either type of rifle. A gun is a tool. and only their associations with people and personal memories give me a special feeling for them. I've got a gun rack with 4 guns on it - an old exposed hammer shotgun that belonged to my Great-Grandfather, a Stevens 311 that belonged to my Grandfather, a Browning A-5 that belonged to my Dad, and a Winchester Model 37 that was my first gun. I "like" all of them; I have no feelings for my Knight; it is just a gun. I would much rather hunt with my Rem 700 .308 or my TC Contender 7x30. The only reason for the Knight is the fact that the state gave the ML hunters a special season at the very front, during what will be the best time of the season to get a buck. If I get a chance at a buck I want to shoot, I want to make sure I harvest him cleanly and efficiently, with One Good Shot, just like my Contender.

The people here have been very helpful to me and I have enjoyed working with my ML, but I really don't see the need for a special ML season here in AL. We already have 10 weeks for gun season, and the limit is 2 deer/day. I don't think you could accuse me of being a game hog - I shot 1 deer last season. I own a farm that I manage for wildlife and I could easily kill 30 deer a year if I so desired. I have no desire to do that, but I do want to be able to hunt during the prime part of the season with a gun that I have confidence in. Right now, I can't see the Knight as being that much of a handicap from my .308. It is a lot more of a hassle, but I think it will be almost as efficient. I hunt from tree stands, and haven't taken a deer with a 2nd shot in years. So what is the point of the special season? Why not just open the season and let me use the .308 from day 1?

I imagine that you and I probably agree more than you think. You probably see the in-lines as a threat to the special seasons the ML hunters have. I can understand that, and I don't really see the scoped Knight as being a true primitive weapon. I think the special season would make more sense for handguns, as it is miles harder to take a deer with a handgun than it is with a scoped in-line. If the state would allow handguns during the ML season, I'd be selling this Knight. You see, I "like" my Contender. :)

Good luck with your primitive weapon. I can see how someone could really enjoy working with a traditional ML and hunting exclusively with it. I might join you someday, but right now I'm enjoying what I'm doing. I imagine if we sat down an talked about our guns, your "problem" with me would disappear. Take care.

Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2004, 06:05:06 PM »
I truly enjoy a good debate.  As long as it is tactful and not out of hand. We all have our beliefs and ways we do things. We all have reasons why we do what we do. We all can agree to disagree and be grow up about it. I welcome Crow-feather to post his opinions and I know he welcomes mine. I hunt with both a traditional and an inline. I use my traditional in our first muzzleloading season and my inline in our late season. Our late season is at the end of all hunting seasons and it is very difficult to get close to most deer that have been shot at all season. And yes I use the inline with a scope to get a better chance at a deer. I enjoy just getting out in the woods and enjoy the tranquility, but like most people the deer is a bonus. :) Hopefully we all can coexist and get over this. :)
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Offline Longcruise

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« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2004, 06:11:44 PM »
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If your licenses out west are as restricted as you say, all this animousity towards people hunting with inlines is SILLY because they likely don't even affect you.


???

No animosity from me toward in-lines.  It's just another kind of gun.  A few hunters in our elk camp shoot in-lines.  Just can't shoot sabots, pellets or use scopes.  It's the people who make and sell em and use legal tactics to push the regulators around just so they can grab a market.  those are the people I dislike.  The people who hunt with in-lines don't affect me because we have managed to impose enough limitation that they are in fact no more or less effective than a perc or flint.

When I label those who go the in-line route as opportunists I'm not necessarily castigating them personally.  They are doing what comes naturally by human nature.  Grasping at (a real or perceived) shortcut to an end which is merely to make the kill easier.  OTOH our season as it exists was designed for those who consider the means as more important than the end.

When the door is thrown wide open to the anything goes in-line attitude in CO, then the ml season as we know it will probably come to an end.  There are plenty of special interest groups that would like to see all September hunting in Colorado brought to an end.  It will be eliminated because it no longer meets the requirements for which it was created and will provide a legitimate argument for those special interest groups.  

Ironically, the all important new market that the maker and seller of in-lines seek will dry up too because the guys who own them will let them gather dust because they are no longer a means to an end.  It'll be back to the centerfire cause they won't pack an in-line during the regular rifle season.  That would put them at a disadvantage :eek:  

Like I said, it's just human nature.

Would be a shame if the CO ml season were lost, but it would separate the opportunists from the ml hunters.  The ml hunters would still be toting their sidelocks stuffed with round balls or minie balls during the rifle season just like they did when they had their own season. :grin:

Offline crow_feather

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« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2004, 06:38:47 PM »
poorcountrypreacher,

You just have to admire an honest person.  I have to admit that your first post didn't thrill me.  I would like to see traditional - primirive - muzzle loading seasons used by those who at least enjoy shooting these weapons.

Where I came from, muzzle loader seasons are on a draw basis.  The first two years, it was easy to get drawn for some hunt.  Then people found out that they had a better chance at a deer by entering the drawing.  If they won, they found the easiest muzzle loader they could shoot and out they went with out hardly any practice at all.  Muzzle loading seasons became one of the hardest draws in the state.  I guess that I have always had a grudge with those who just want the deer and not the experience.

I wish you the best of luck in you ML season.  May you discover the thrill of using a limited range weapon to harvest your winter meat.  Maybe someday, you will be sighting over a Hawken.  If not, I do hope that you will learn to love your Knight and you can pass it on to your kin with pride.

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Offline Wolfhound

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« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2004, 06:55:26 PM »
Quote from: Longcruise


When I label those who go the in-line route as opportunists I'm not necessarily castigating them personally.  They are doing what comes naturally by human nature.  Grasping at (a real or perceived) shortcut to an end which is merely to make the kill easier.

Or maybe for those of us in shotgun states, we don't like shotguns. :wink: I know I don't.

Quote
Ironically, the all important new market that the maker and seller of in-lines seek will dry up too because the guys who own them will let them gather dust because they are no longer a means to an end.  It'll be back to the centerfire cause they won't pack an in-line during the regular rifle season.  That would put them at a disadvantage


This year will be my fourth year hunting with a muzzleloader. It will also mark the first year I have drawn a muzzleloader tag. Only my second time applying for one too. Regardless I'm only taking muzzleloaders this year for firearm or muzzleloader.
Quote
Would be a shame if the CO ml season were lost, but it would separate the opportunists from the ml hunters.

Could really care less about the CO ml season. If they got rid of the ML season here in Illinois I would continue to use muzzleloaders as long as they were legal. If they made ML's illegal I would likely quit hunting. It's just no fun to use a slug gun. Either that or I would get more into bow hunting. :?


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As much as I used to like this forum it's been a mess lately. Too much argument and BS for my taste. Sadly this was one of the last decent muzzleloader boards. Maybe it will get better and maybe not but either way doesn't matter. So long y'all.