why did they drop the 35 whelen?

[ratherbefishin]

I understand they produced barrels in .35 whelen some time back- anybody know why they stopped?And with the interest in the 35 magnum- I wonder if they will chamber the 35whelen again?Any thoughts?

[Leftoverdj]

The .35 Whelen never was a production item. NEF made a special run for one of the hunter groups and a few lucky souls got some barrels from the overrun fitted through the barrel accessory program.

Not likely to happen again.

[Big Blue]

The .35 Whelen never was a production item. NEF made a special run for one of the hunter groups
Not likely to happen again.

Hey DJ ,
  We're a pretty good sized hunter group, I wonder what it would take to get them to do a special production run for us!
Don

[Leftoverdj]

The .35 Whelen never was a production item. NEF made a special run for one of the hunter groups
Not likely to happen again.

Hey DJ ,
  We're a pretty good sized hunter group, I wonder what it would take to get them to do a special production run for us!
Don

$100,000 up front should do it.

[ratherbefishin]

I see Winchester has chambered the 350 magnum,so ther is definately interest in that caliber.If NEF won't chamber magnums, then the 35 whelen seems a natural.It may not be the fastest, nor does it have the nostalgia of the 45-70, but for big game under hunting conditions, it would sem to be an excellent choice.Remington is making a limited  run of their pump action 35 whelen this yearand they wouldn't have done that if they didn't think there was a market for it. Be interesting if H&R monitors forums like these to guage public interest- I would be very surprised if they didn't.

[handirifle]

When funds permit I'm getting a 30-06 and 45-70 BC barrel for my Ultra.  If the 30-06 barrel pans out (in the accuracy dept) I may convert my Savage 30-06 to 35 Whelen just to have one.

[ratherbefishin]

the 35 whelen seems to be about midway betwen the 30-06 and the 45-70 and I think it would be an excellent option for the H&R HANDI RIFLES.I just don't know why it isn't offered

[Haywire Haywood]

H&R didn't even monitor it's own forum when it had one.  I remember someone saying they mentioned it to customer service on the phone one day and they didn't even know it existed.  Sounds crazy but that's what the guy said.

Ian

[ratherbefishin]

that doesn't make sense- forums provide a good source of customer feedback- free too.
If I wanted a HAndi-rifle chambered in 35 whelen-, how do you go about obtaining ione- is there any after market barrels that would be compatable, or would you just give up and go to  TC ?

[Deadeye47]

NEF probably has the typical management set up.....Deleated my sharp but tacky post as I was in a bad mood when I wrote it....it really served no purpose here.....sorry guys... :oops:

[marv]

I think you said it right in your last post.  They droped the H&R talk because to much talk about recambering, and talk about magmums
 in a Handi.  Sounds like you have been there and saw it done, About
 same thing that happen there on H&R Talk. Marv.

[handirifle]

ratherbefishin
There is no other option that is cheap.  There is a gunsmith in Mo., Lee Shaver, singleshot specialist, that will rebarrel a handi.  You have to send him a donor barrel, shotgun might work, and he takes the mounting lugs off it and uses it on the new barrel.  Probably not cheap though.

This would be a way to have a custom caliber the gun is capable of handling.

One other option he can do is to sleeve an existing barrel with the new caliber.  That, he has said is cheaper and just as accurate.

He can be found at www.egunsmith.com
He did some work on my Buffalo Classic and his work is first rate.

[Sourdough]

What we need to do is everyone that wants a .35 Whelen needs to send NEF/H&R-1871 a letter.  Telling them of your desire to have a .35 Whelen.  If enough people do that they will listen.  The only negative thing they may be thinking about is the ability of that cartridge to almost duplicate the ballistics of the .338 Winchester Magnum.  And how some people would go a little too far in their reloading.  That raises the possibility of a law suite, and they have been burned badly in the past in court.  I have one of those .35 Whelen Handi's mentioned above, here's how I got it.  
 
Several years back I sent letters to Thompson Center and NEF/H&R asking about the possibility of them manufacturing barrels for the .35 Whelen cartridge.  I received the same response from both, that the cost of research and development made it cost prohibitive.  And that their feedback from customers was not favorable for that cartridge.  The letter from NEF was signed by Mr Garrison CEO NEF/H&R1871.  The next Fox Ridge cataloge I received had a listing for the .35 Whelen barrel for the TCR.  I ordered one.  About six months later I saw a listing in a hunting magazine for the Rocky Mountain Elk Federation commerative in .35 Whelen from NEF.  I went to the file and dug out my letter from NEF.  I called Mr Garrison and asked if they were going to make a run of .35s outside of the commerative models?  He told me no, that the cartridge was not popular enough for regaler production.  I brought up my letter from him saying how they weren't going to produce any in that caliber and now here they were making them.  He asked if I had a copy of that letter, I informed him that I did and of the date and it was signed by him.  I then asked about those of us that wanted one for everyday use and not in a commerative model.  Mr Garrison told me to send in an order for a regular Handi in .35 Whelen and they would barrel one up and send it to me.  I sent the order in and got the gun in about six weeks.

[Mitch in MI]

There are a few smiths who will rebore to a larger diameter. Somebody on another forum bought a pawn shop 25-06 with a pitted bore for $125, and paid a smith over $200 to rebore and rifle it. In the end, he got his 35 Whelen in a used gun with a new bore for something near the price of a new Buffalo Classic.

[Mitch in MI]

Here's the reborer list from the NEF-singleshot group at yahoogroups.com, one guy had his 270 handi rebored by Siegrist, and I believe the fellow with the 25-06 to 35 Whelen rebore used the same smith.

Wells Sport Store
Dan Pedersen
110 N. Summit Av.
Prescott, Az. 86301
928-445-3655


Redmans Rifling and Reboring
Randall Redman
189 Nichols Rd.
Omak, Wa. 98841
509-826-5512


Starlight Enterprises
Randy Selby
1502 Bleistein Av.
Cody, Wy. 82414
307-587-3581

LaBounty Precision Reboring Inc.
Cliff Labounty
7968 Silver Lake Rd
Maple Falls, Wa. 98266
360-599-2047


Siegrist Gun Shop
Al Siegrist
8752 Turtle Rd.
Whittemore, Mi. 48770
989-873-3929

[ratherbefishin]

sounds like it would be cheaper to either find one used or go to TC. Custom gunsmithing isn't cheap and the cost incurred on a handi rifle doesn'tjustify it.Too bad, the 35 whelen is a very efficient hunting round.I make the distinction between ''hunting rounds'' and target shooting, for the simple reason that a 35 caliber bullet has more smack to it than a 30 caliber bullet, which was the resoning behing developing it from the 30-06 to start with.Col.Whelen was  a hunter and knew what he was looking for and in spite of all the developments, the 35 whelen is still an outstanding round for big game at moderate ranges- where most of the shots are  anyway..

[handirifle]

I think the cost you spend on a Handi is up to the individual owner.  If a barrel is not available and the caliber you want is a custom job, then you get exactly what you want.  Unless a production run is made, cost is only one consideration, not the only one.

[Nightrain52]

I think a lot of people have missed the point. The HR and NEF rifles are a great bargain at the price they sell them for. They chamber them in the most popular and "modern" calibers other than the 45/70 or the 38/55. At $225.00 to $275.00 you get a decent quiality centerfire rifle for the cost of a lot of companies rimfires. Look at the Mossberg SSI, it goes in the neighborhood of $500.00 and it has been discontinued. HR and NEF are trying to survive in these times when a lawsuit could happen any time and they are a small company that cannot afford to spend a lot of money on research and development or retooling in these trying times. We can always play armchair quarterback but if the profit is not there one of these days HR and Nef will no longer exist and then where would we be. Just my 2 cents.  

[ratherbefishin]

I totally agree- they have to make a profit or they go under.I also think that some of these older chamberings have been given a ''second look'' by consumers-and the fact that Remington has made a limted run of their 35 whelen is proof that they think there is enough interest to warrent it.
 I see H&R as supplying the utility end of the industry- guys who rate   good value over high prices as the criteria for their purchases-the typical hunter-and that means the 35 whelen has a solid niche place on the gunrack

[Mitch in MI]

Ratherbefishin:
I agree with you, but I wonder what percentage of their sales come from the experienced shooter who knows what he wants, and what percentage of NEF/H&R are sold as starter guns for newbies. The marketing seems centered on the low budget mass market for beginners.

I suspect that historically these have been newbie guns, but the internet may be changing that and Marlin may be slow to get the idea.
With the magazines steering the mass market toward short fat magnums that H&R cannot make, the time seems right to offer us some lesser known utility chambers like 338-06 and 35 Whelen for big game and 7-30 for deer. I think they'd sell better than a 22" 22-250.

[JPH45]

We would think they would sell at least as well, but think of this, they had discontinued the 22-250, some say because of the high percentage of returns on failure to extract, yet apparently demand was high enough, that even with this problem (supposing it was worse than the rest of the chamberings) they brought it back. It would be nice though if they would offer some heavy standard chamberings like the 35 Whelen and 338-06, a few of the blackpowder chamberings would be nice like 40-65 Winchester or 38-72 Winchester, but they don't even support the 32 H&R mag, a cartridge they designed and is even being chambered by Marlin now, so I doubt we sill see NEF/H&R offer anything that is daring or lacks a huge following.

One cannot howver slam them too hard for their position,picking up my trusty Accurate Arms manual I count 6 offferings of 30 caliber magnums, not including the 30 WSM, and rifles chambered in 308 and 30-06 still outsell those 7 chamberings combined and when one gets realistic about it, how often in the real world does a magnum make the difference between bringing home the bacon and waiting till another season? But who wants to be realistic, I want NEF to make a handi in 375 JDJ, a 375 Winchester would suffice.

[Mac11700]

JPH45:
 
I agree with you entirely on the 375...that would make a dandy caliber for the Handi...but having one in 35whelan would be awsome as well....but lets not forget...we told them all of this on the old forum...time and time again..to no avail....they know what the majority of Handi owners,wanted and would buy,when Marlin took over...they stopped caring and stopped listening ...they won't expend the capital to multiple chamberings out of the main stream...and I really don't think it has anything to do with lawsuits...I think they would rather have you buy a Marlin lever action than a handi rifle....they can downsize by cutting jobs and inventory and make their bottom line all the better to their stock holders...it's about corporate greed these days...outsourcing jobs,raiding pension funds,making a profit selling off the company bit by bit...then bringing it back by having the same product made over seas by nothing other than slave labor :evil: I fear that in a few years most of the centerfires will be gone from the Handi line up...they want to keep it as strictly a utility gun..nothing more..till sales finally diminish enough to drop the line completely.If they gave us what we wanted in chamberings...and made it a little better fit and finish wise they wouldn't be able to do away with it
 
 
Mac

[Leftoverdj]

Let's not get too deep into paranoia. NEF makes what they can easily sell. Normal distribution channels ain't set up to get small runs of odd calibers to scattered gun nuts.

I do figger that someone could make a pretty good buck special ordering 500 guns at a time and selling them over the internet. Problem is that takes about $100,000 an order. Lawyers figger in, too. Sportsters could easily take .25-20, .256 Win, .32-20, .32 Mag., and the like and they would sell like beer at a ball game at Sportster prices, but NEF ain't gonna put no centerfire barrels  on that action.

[ratherbefishin]

I would be interested in knowing what numbers they would need to do a production run of a caliber?Anybody have any idea?If they did the 35 whelen before- then I wouldn't think it would involve retooling, they already have the equipment to do it.My vote would go to a stainless barrel and composite stock-a  pure no nonsense-utilitarian big game gun.If you check out Chuck Hawkes on the subject he has done some interesting research on the 35 caliber in terms of practical hunting efficiency. Heavy bullets, large frontal area, at moderate speeds.They may not be the choice for 400 yard shots, but for ranges within 200 yards[ where most of shots are], they're tough to beat.If I had my druthers, I would take the 35whelen over a 30-06 for moose or bear-for exactly the same reasons it was originally developed for.Calibers come in and out of favour[ one suspects for the sole reason of increasing sales] but moose or bear haven't changed much that I can see.

[Mac11700]

DJ:
 
paranoia has absolutely nothing to do with it.Just plain real world musing is all.Let's face facts for a minute....how many threads were on the old H&R forum..about this very subject??? Do you remember the reason ED Chabot gave for the demise of that forum...manpower...nothing more...nothing less...the higher ups didn't want to invest in a few IS tech support people to handle the flow of traffic on their site.They didn't want to invest on new software or hardware either...remember???...If our very own Greybeard can invest his own money in running a top-notch site as this...why in the world couldn't they???   Because.... it wasn't a viable profit making expenditure ...that's why...they had a public forum and the whole world could  access it...the good and bad. If they truly did care what the core of  Handi owners thought,and believe me..they do know...they would have showed that they cared by making the quality control changes that to this day still plague these other wise fine little rifles and offering the reasonable calibers we ask for. I'm not talking about all the Magnum calibers talk that was floated around on the site...but the truly reasonable ones...the ones they had the tooling for  or the different barrel lenghts a-lot of us wanted and still do.
 
I do know how upper  management feels about customer satisfaction...it is high on their list when they are interested in it...if they aren't...they do nothing or stop their service.As to the rest of my previous post...this is standard operating procedure when any company is bought out or taken over...especially when there is direct ccompittition on product sold from both,or if one is being downsized...this happens everyday,to businesses large and small.
 
Do I think it's far-fetched to see this happening...no...I don't...I do think that they have already noticed the total amout of orders fall though since the shut down the site...I don't know how much...but you got to admit  that site did generate alot of interest in these rifles...and having some positive press on the web and in print didn't hurt none either.
 
 
H&R sales could be higher if they made more calibers available...and cleaned up the few small problems they currently have.....it would be quite simple for them really...you have to ask yourself..." Why haven't they?"
 
 
Mac

[ratherbefishin]

To me- there are some calibers that just make sense- and the 35 whelen is one of them, designed to do a certain job quicklyand efficiently- which is transfering energy from a bullet to a large annimal,[ moose, bear] resulting in a quick humane kill.I'd probably pick the 308  or 270 as another[ for deer], and of course the time honoured .22[ small game]. With that selection there isn't much hunting on NorthAmerica that couldn't be done much better with anything else.

[Sourdough]

Again fellows, if you want to see NEF remake the .35 Whelen, sit down and write them a letter.  If they see enough response asking for the same thing they will listen.  Whats it take?  Five minutes to write a letter, and address an envelope.    For those that don't have the address it's:  
 
H&R 1871, LLC
60 Industrial Rowe
Gardner, MA 01440
 
Come on write the letter, let's see what happens.  I've already written mine, it'll go out in today's mail.  Rog

[Leatherbark]

My gunshop has a Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation Handi rifle in 35 Whelen caliber...........Medallian on the buttstock and a Long barrel.........With scope mount IIRC............$250..............I wonder how many of these were made?

[Mitch in MI]

Leatherbark, I believe the number is closer to 1,000 than to 5,000.

I see them offered on the internet a couple of times a year, but not for $250. I suspect that if your hometown was listed in your public profile here, the gun would be gone before noon tomorrow. Some people have paid $200+ to have a 25-06 Handi rebored to 35 Whelen.

If you are thinking about buying it,  remember that the factory will not fit additional 30-06 or 308 class barrels on an old 1996 receiver. You can add rimmed & 223 rifle cartridges, shotgun barrels, or muzzleloader barrels.

[Leatherbark]

I"ll try to post the Phone number soon