Won't eject 2 out of 20

[Bis]

I finished shooting a box of Win. factory loaded rounds with no problems ejecting any cases. I then neck sized all the brass and chambered all the rounds to make sure there would be no problems. 2 out of the 20 rounds would not eject. I tried cleaning the chamber to be sure there was not crud left from the other 18 rounds. No luck. I then re-neck sized the 2 cases with the same results. Do I need to do the full case sizing thing or what.

 I have resisted full case sizing since I am trying to work up a load for my 243 and am not sure that I would get the same results if I mix neck sized and full length sized rounds ( I am new at reloading).
 
 Anyone have any ideas why the 2 rounds stuck and am I being to picky at having all my brass set up the same way?

 Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[quickdtoo]

Polish that chamber, it's a known fix for failure to eject for the H&R/NEF singles. I've read a couple reviews on the handis and UVs, the one commonality was FTE, even with factory ammo. One reviewer even recommended sticking with rimmed cartridges only! Most everyone fixes it with a good chamber polish using metal polish like flitz and good cleaning habits and making sure there's no oil in the chamber.....hth

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=36233

[Bis]

Quckdtoo- When I first got the Ultra I had the usual problems with sticking cases and the action opening after being fired. After a good cleaning and over 200 rounds fired since then I have not had the problem, until this last box of factory ammo. All the factory stuff ejected just fine, it is when I neck sized the cases that 2 of the 20 cases would not eject. I had cleaned the day lights out of the weapon after the last firing and I cleaned the chamber again after the 2 stuck. If I full size the 2 cases will I get the will get the same performance as a neck sized case in my quest for a good load??

[marv]

You prob not be able to tell the difference in how the full length and neck sized brass. I haven't been able to.  Just my 2 cents worth. Marv

[rmtaylor]

I chambered rounds for my 270 to check if they would fit and eject for 2 reasons I had loaded them way out to touch the lands and had neck sized them. The unfired rounds would not eject. When I fired them they came out with no problem.

Richard

[quickdtoo]

Bis, I'm not ignoring your question, I'm not a handloader, so I'll leave that question for the handloading experts here. Maybe someday I'll get into that.

[JPH45]

Bis, I have the same trouble with my 30-30 when I neck size only. I use the Lee collet die for neck sizing. If you are using a full length sizing die and only partially sizing, you may actually be moving the shoulder forward slightly and this could be part of the trouble. What happens when we "neck size" in a full length sizing die is not only to size the neck, but a portion of the lower case body is sized as well. In resizing, as the brass is shrunk to unfired diamensions, the brass must flow somewhere, since it can't go out, it can't go down, it must go up, or get longer, therein is the increase in length. Your 243 headspaces on the shoulder, and since it is longer now because you have not truely full length resized, it more completely fills the chamber, good for accuracy, but bad for a weak extraction system.

On firing the brass is streaching to fill the chamber space, and doesn't relax as much as true full length sized brass does, causing stuck cases. If your experience is like mine, the more you only neck size those cases, the more of them that will stick in the chamber.

You are correct, you may see a difference in accuracy or point of impact between your neck sized cases, full length sized  and factory new cases. You also may not. I would suggest that you run a few controlled experiments to determine this.

Neck sizing is usually done to either increase accuracy potential or to increase case life. it may or may not increase accuracy potential, I have yet to be able to prove this in my 30-30. It has increased case life, but as cheap as 30-30 brass is, or 243 for that matter, it may well be that the best solution is to full length size if this eliminates a stuck case problem. I like the Lee Collet die for neck sizing because the cases do not need to be lubed. This makes my reloading simplier and quicker, since I have a backyard range, I usually load up five, shoot 'em, load and shoot 'em again for a few hours.

Well, I've rambled enough, hope some of this helps out. Sorry for being so long winded, JP

[Paul5388]

JPH,

Bis and I can do the same in reloading 5 rounds, step out and shoot them and come back in and load the same cases.  Of course, we've had so much rain this year, we almost have to bush hog the range between shots!  He may still be on the tractor tonight!

I think you have presented a reasonable program to see if FL resizing will make any difference in accuracy in his gun and if the FL resized brass fixes the ejection problem.

[Wlscott]

Bis, how do you know how far from the lands you are?  Do you use a specific tool to measure it like the Stoney Point tool?  Or do you use the bullet itself to measure?

I'm thinking you are closer than you think, and there's enough variation in your seating depth to cause bullets to be crammed into the rifleing.  Where the two that wouldn't eject hard to chamber?  

You might set your seating die in another three or four thou and then try the ones that are sticking.  

You should also be able to see rifling marks on the ogive of the bullets that are sticking.

[Mac11700]

I would also check the extractor itself...sometimes burrs develope and gunk can interfer with it working properly...I had this happen on my 308..on some low pressure(lower than normal anyway) rounds,I cleaned it out completely and the problem went away....also check your overall case lenght and trim back to 2.045" for the 243...this is per Noslers #5 reloading manual...one other measurement you should make on the case is the size of the neck...it should be .276" on a full resized case...your chamber may be a-lot larger,or it could be smaller than most...like JPH45 said ...brass flows...without a chamber cast it's hard to tell...if it is a-lot larger...you could polish the neck area of your chamber and see if that helps....or you can get a case neck turning tool and take off the high spots on the case itself...lots of benchrest folks have to do this for some of their extreamly tight chambers,either way you can true up the case necks with it.


Mac

[oneshotonekill]

Is the OAL the same for the 2 cases that stuck as the 18 that ejected?  Are there any marks on those 2 bullets to indicate they contacted the lands upon closing the action?

[Longcruise]

Are there any marks on those 2 bullets to indicate they contacted the lands upon closing the action?

Well, how the heck is he going to know if there were marks on bullets that are already shot into the backstop?? :-)

[Bis]

First let me say thanks to all who responded. I am new at this reloading stuff and any little hick-up makes me nervous.
 I will now make a short story long :grin: .
 The entire history of the cases is as follows. Bought at Wal-Mart ( Winchester,80 grain varmit ) . Shot all 20 rounds in 2 days (with no stuck rounds). One week later I used a Lee "Collet Neck Sizer" and de-primed and neck sized all 20 rounds at the same time. I have measured all 20 rounds. The 18 that chamber and eject have an OAL of 2.046-2.050, the 2 that will not eject have a OAL of 2.046 and 2.050 (yes I know that this is longer than recommended). The outside neck dia. for all 20 rounds is .271. None of these rounds have a primers or bullets installed.
 After I fired the factory 20 rounds, I cleaned the rifle. The after neck sizing I tried chambering the 20 rounds. When the 2 would not eject I cleaned the chamber again with the same results.
 There are no burrs or nicks or any other weird things about these 2 rounds. I have tried chambering the 2 rounds 3 or 4 times, thinking I did something wrong. They still will not eject
 Am I making to much out of nothing?? I just want to have all cases on an even playing field when I am trying to find the optimum load for my 243 rifle.
 Thanks for bearing with me during my long winded explanation.

[JPH45]

Don't worry about being long winded.....

The figures you show for the two sticking cases are the same as the others, are those correct???

The length we are really interested in is the length from the midpoint on the shoulder to the base, without special tooling there is no good way to measure it. You can get a set of go nogo gauges from Midway that check this length but do not give a reading, it is a simple cylinder that the sized case is dropped into, and the length compared to cuts on the base of the cylinder. It would be very good to trim all the cases to length, Lee makes a decent tool for this job that is very inexpensive and works well. Without knowing the true dimensions of your chamber, there is no way of knowing if your die is sizing to a max dimension while your chamber is of minimum dimension, but I doubt this is your problem.

243 brass is cheap, make a order at www.midwayusa.com or other supplier and get cases from several makers. You may find  that a particular brand doesn't give any trouble. While you are at it, get a Lee full length sizing die and full length size your sticking cases, shoot them and neck size them again and see what you get.

I full length size mine after ever 4th or 5th firing and usually get at least one case that sticks even then. No big deal, I have never had once fired full length sized brass stick in this rifle and the ammo I make to hunt with will be that or from new unfired brass. Every thing else is fired at paper, if it sticks, I drop a cleaning rod down the barrel and go about my business. Keep us posted, JP

[Paul5388]

JPH,

I fail to see how once fired, neck sized brass is going to vary in length to the shoulder.  The chamber didn't grow for two rounds, the brass dimension is unchanged by neck sizing.  

The probable solution is running those two cases back through the neck sizer, making sure the proper amount of pressure is put on the collet and then turn the brass 90 degrees and do it again.  More than likely those two necks are out of round or incompletely sized.

I run into the same problem with the .360 DW and .357 cases I use in my .357.  If I don't take enough of the flare out, they stick and I have to punch them out.  A little more on the taper crimping die solves the problem.

[oneshotonekill]

Are there any marks on those 2 bullets to indicate they contacted the lands upon closing the action?

Well, how the heck is he going to know if there were marks on bullets that are already shot into the backstop?? :-)

When I first read I thought he had reloaded the cases and they were neck sized only and he was testing weather the rounds would chamber and eject.  I didn't realize he was using just once fired brass that was neck sized.  I guess that word "rounds" in his post led me to believe they were loaded.  I guess it would be pretty darn hard to check for marks on bullets that were never loaded into the cases.  :wink:

[Longcruise]

When I first read I thought he had reloaded the cases and they were neck sized only and he was testing weather the rounds would chamber and eject. I didn't realize he was using just once fired brass that was neck sized.

Now that I've reread his post it looks like you were right the first time and that he is indeed running the loaded rounds through the process :?

[Bis]

Sorry about the misunderstanding with the nomenclature on empty cases versas live rounds. I am still learning :grin: .
 I just RE-neck sized the 2 rounds for the third time following Lee's instructions to the letter, with the same results. They stick. I rotated them while neck sizing, damn near cracked my bench exserting the 25 foot pounds of force on the press( per Lee instructions).
 I did notice that while testing the 2 bad cases, that when I inserted them into the breach that they seem to stick out about 15-20 thousands while the good cases are flush with the breach.
 Maybe I am making mountains out of mole hills, but some where I heard that fire formed cases are more accurate and that neck sizing only will allow me to reload more rounds from the same cases.
 I would love to buy more cases, but I am already on thin ice with my financial advisor (my wife  :grin: ) for buying all the reloading equipment for my 243 and 45/70.
 Of course all this discussion maybe a mute point if it doesn't stop raining out here. I have not been able to shoot for the last 2 weeks and all I have todo is go on my back porch, but every time I try to shoot it starts raining again.
 Thanks everyone for your inputs

[Paul5388]

Ken,

Go ahead and full length resize those two cases and see if they will chamber.  You can mark them with a Marks-A-Lot and shoot them and then see if they will chamber with a neck size on the second reloading.  If they won't, but all the rest do, either scrap them or continue to FL resize them.

Whatever happened to the Federals you got?  You might try them with the neck sizer and see if it's the same situation as with the Winchesters.

[Bis]

Hi Paul- since the Federal 100 grains would not stabilize, I have been using them for my flowing shots. 10 more rounds and I have another box of cases :grin: .

[Paul5388]

Ken,

Just resize the 10 you have and check them for fit and ejection.  There's a thread going on handloads.com about win brass and how sorry it is, but that's new brass from Midway, not loaded brass like you have.

[Bis]

I will try the Fed. brass tomorrow and see what happens. It just seems odd that the box of Win. (all 20 rounds) ejected just fine and now problems.
 I hope your area is getting a little break from the rain. My field is getting so hi in hay that my dog won't even go out there, I guess he is afraid that he can't find his way back home :grin: .

[Paul5388]

Ken,

Nope, I checked the dogs today and they are starting to grow webs between their toes!  Even my light weight grandchildren can't get very far into the garden without sinking up to their eyeballs in mud.  :eek:

Did you buy the Deluxe dies that have the FL resizer?  If not, save those two cases until you can get over here and we'll do something with them then.  Be sure to bring the gun this time!  I bush hogged the lane to the target yesterday.

[wrench17]

2 things  1 The cases should be trimmed you're @ the max @ 2.045" trim len is 2.025" You say it took about all you had to size these units, and the cases stuck out of the chamber .015'.I  think that is your problem. Trim'em, I'll bet the force to neck size goes WAY DOWN. and you will not be sizing the tooo loonng case when you close the action. I would reccomend you start over on the SET-UP of your collet die and when you 2 get together this problem will go away.  I carefully move the collet die as little as possible to get ~ .001 to .0015" less than bullet dia.  All we are trying to do is get a grip on the bullet not double squeeze and then resize when seating bullet.  I use the factory crimp die to finish off my stuff. 223 & 25-06 H&R, 223.7TC/U, 30-30, 17 Rem in T/Cs Break guns are diffent no cam action
 good luck
Shoot safe
Keep Shootn'

[Bis]

Paul- I did buy the "deluxe" die set so I do have the full re-sizer. If you will recall I brought a box of Remington cases (fired one time) and you neck sized them. After we tried them in my rifle, they all stuck, so you full resized them and they all worked just fine.
 If you brush hogged a lane to the target yesterday, I bet its gone today :-) . Oh buy the way, its raining again. I think I need to start building a boat say about 20 cubits by 40 cubits  :grin: .

wrenck17- You are probably right, I should get a case trimmer, but if the case length is the problem, then why do the other 18 cases not stick, since they are the same length.
 The reason I put so much force on the press is that Lee suggests 25 foot pounds of force. I used what I thought was 25 pounds on the first two neck sizing and thought I would just go a little over kill.

[marv]

 Just look at radar on computer Looks like You are getting rain in
east Texas      Sure bad for shooting and getting hay in :cry:
Marv.

[Bis]

the news channel said that Texas has had 17 straight days of rain. It gets exciting when you live down a dirt road :grin: .

[Paul5388]

Ken,

I have brass that dates all the way back to the '60s that has always been FL resized.  Never trimmed or did anything to them except load and shoot.  I also never had a problem with cases sticking and it looks like FL resizing solved your problem the last time.  In the quest for greater accuracy, you could FL resize and then run them back through the collet for a little more consistant neck.

I shot some neck sized .223 today (between cloud bursts!) and had several that didn't eject.  It may be that these Handis are going to need FL resizing to be reliable in chambering.  My neck sized Hornets fed and ejected flawlessly.

[Bis]

Paul-I am glad to hear that you were able to reload that many times from the same brass. I figured that if I full re-sized, that I would only get 5 or 6 shots from my brass. I have about 120 rounds of brass (some still factory loaded(the 100 grain stuff) so that should last me awhile. I guess I will go for reliability more that accuracy.
 Today was not to bad, we only got a little over.5 inches of rain.

 Thanks

[Paul5388]

Ken,

Which time?  I think it rained on us three times today.  The neighbor said he has done everything he could think to his hay baler and it's still raining!

I didn't get any shooting done today, so I think I'll just go out an load some in preparation of drier times.

If you want to do some trading on the 100 gr stuff you have, let me know.  I have a pretty good bit of new .243 brass.