Author Topic: Paper Cartridges (Read 1098 times)

whitfang · « **on:** July 02, 2004, 08:19:37 AM »

In reading old posts and web articles about Paper Cartridges, I finally understand how (maybe) to make and shoot PCs.

In Dances With Wolves one of Kevin Costner's men loads a rifle by tearing the end off of a paper cartridge and pouring the powder down the barrel. I'm not sure if the ball was on top of the powder or not, but the whole PC did not go down the barrel.

So, I thought, PCs were just like early, disposable speed loaders. They just hold premeasured powder and a ball for faster firing. I further thought that you used regular paper and just closed the ends somehow with powder and ball inside.

Then I saw Gatofeo's post on making nitrated paper. The whole thing makes sense now! You load the entire PC and ram it home. The whole PC burns! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Still have some questions though:

1. Some articles point out that you should pierce the PCs through the nipples before firing. Others omit this step. If you don't pierce the PCs, isn't it a little like lighting a cannon fuse? Long delay before firing?

2. Does anybody sell pre-made PCs for popular cap&ball revolvers?

3. Would anybody have original PC boxes, and be willing to post pictures? I'd be interested in seeing how they were packaged during the Civil War.

4. Is it necessary to mark the end of the PC with the lead ball?

5. Any other hints in making your own PCs? One of the best articles I found was at WWW.CIVILWARGUNS.COM.

Thanks for you assistance.

filmokentucky · « **Reply #1 on:** July 02, 2004, 09:06:27 AM »

Whitfang- to see a representation of an original cartridge packet go to gunbroker.com - scroll down to collectibles and click on it. click on civil war and type cartridge packet in the search window. You can also try some of the other on-line auctions as these come up for sale on a fairly regular basis-usually originals for alot more money.

whitfang · « **Reply #2 on:** July 02, 2004, 09:51:37 AM »

Did the boxes of Paper Cartridges come with caps? :?

filmokentucky · « **Reply #3 on:** July 02, 2004, 12:06:31 PM »

If memory serves, the cartridges did not come packed with caps.

Flint · « **Reply #4 on:** July 02, 2004, 03:41:46 PM »

Some shooters make their own paper cartridges with bond paper, which won't burn fast enough, so you don't load it with the charge. Many use cigarette paper which burns better but must be pieced through the nipple with a nipple pick to light off reliably. Nitrated paper will go without piercing as long as there isn't too much twisted paper at the ignition end. The Soldiers bit off the end of Rifle cartridges to be sure they lit off, but still shoved all the paper down the bore. Most articles I've seen about makng combustable cartridges glue the paper around the equater of the ball, so you would know which end goes up. If you use paper cartridges, make sure there are no burning embers left in the chamber when you reload, we don't like surprises..

whitfang · « **Reply #5 on:** July 02, 2004, 04:29:28 PM »

Thanks for the reply.

After searching the internet, I'm coming to the conclusion that nobody makes paper cartridges commercially. And if they did, they'd cost about $4 each!

I WILL check for embers before reloading. I would hate to star in the movie Dances With Flaming Hair!!!

:-D

mec · « **Reply #6 on:** July 04, 2004, 11:03:23 AM »

here is a picture of some flambustable paper ctgs

Somebody here, probably Gatefeo, mentioned soaking paper in one brand of stump remover that happens to be predominantly Potassium Nitrate. I got some at the garden store. It is in white #6 shot pellet form and I lightly cooked it in water until it broke down and suspended. Then soaked several types of paper in it including standard typing paper and some thinner wrapping paper. The paper dried with a somewhat chrusty crystiline surface and burned with a snap,crackle, pop letting off a smell like fireworks. Definatlely K N02.

I rolled and glued some paper cones on the spout of my navy flask and glued in some rebaited base 110 grain bullets from a replica bullet/ball mold. I found that the cartridges would load handily - only if I kept them short- probably about 15 grains powder. I forgot to prick them with a nipple pick but they ignited immediately anyway. The entire paper tube combusted with the exception of a couple of small pieces that were saturated with elmer's glue.

It is an interesting exercise and part of the history of these revolvers. Like most people, I do not find the bullets to be nearly as accurate as the round ball but suspect that this might not have even occured to some of the original users. In a practicle sense, I was able to kept my duelist shots in the center of a human silhouette at 60 feet and can do much better than this with round ball at 25 yards.

whitfang · « **Reply #7 on:** July 04, 2004, 02:30:11 PM »

Hey, thanks. Nice pictures. :grin:

Looks like they believed in bullets vs ball.

How many years did paper cartridges exist? It probably wasn't too long (10 years maybe?) before they were entirely replaced by brass cartridges.

filmokentucky · « **Reply #8 on:** July 04, 2004, 03:50:11 PM »

The age of the percussion revolver begins with the Paterson in the mid 1830s and is pretty much over by 1873 as far as new guns are concerned. But folks kept using them for quite a while after that. Even with cartridge conversions, people often kept the old percussion cylinder just in case they couldn't get fixed ammunition---they could load with loose powder and ball. Plus, a cap and ball revolver was apt to be more powerful than the early pistol cartridges. So, you've got quite a spread of time when ready made paper cartridges would have been on the market.

mec · « **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2004, 02:44:13 AM »

R.L. wilson's colt book is full of illustrations of all sorts of cases sets of different types and calibers with these little 6 round boxes of paper combustable ctgs. It appears that they were very well established during the civil war and afterward but I haven't found when they first came in.

The bullet/ ball moulds started pretty early with some sort of bullet mould appearing in mexico in 1848. Some of the troops were levering them into the chambers upside down and some thougth that this contributed to the Walker cylinders blowing up.

The pedersoli made replica mouls do a pretty good job if you are just casting a few bullets and you have a heavy set of glovers to work with. the .36s weigh 110 grains while the 31s go 60. The littel rebait visible on the heel is necessary to get them started into the chambers. There is a dude selling alledged percussion revolver bullets who is actually jut packaging up .45 acp target wcs; 120 grain 32 bullets and 150 grain .38s. They will not fit under the rammer unless you swage the base into a smaller diameter sizing die. The guy ought to be ashamed of himself.

Flint · « **Reply #10 on:** July 05, 2004, 08:12:43 AM »

Seems to me I recall references to the British Redcoats using Combustible paper cartridges in the early 17th Century with Matchlock guns, pre-flintlock, so the history may go back quite a way....

filmokentucky · « **Reply #11 on:** July 05, 2004, 10:13:35 AM »

Cartridges for muzzleloaders in general go way back to the days of matchlocks, but the days of ready mades for C&B revolvers was rather brief. I've been going through my old books and surfing the web, as well as digging through my memory (admittedly a shallow hole) but I can't find anything definitive regarding the time span for factory produced percussion revolver cartridges. I would hazard a guess that they were available from 1840-1845 to maybe 1885 or so. But I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the span was somewhat briefer.