lee R.E.A.L. bullets

[rickyp]

does anyone use the Lee R.E.A.L. bullets I am looking at the 50 cal 250 gr bullet
I want to use the bullet on deer, But i have been told that they are known to slide out of the bore when hunting. Is this true how will it work for deer?

[jh45gun]

I never had any problem with them sliding out and the way they engrave the rifleing going down the barrel I would think they are tight enough no worse than any other conical. Infact better than ones that slide down easy and are made to obtrude after being fired. I would not worry about it and I shoot them in several rifles. Jim

[rickyp]

what bullet weight do you use and how do they preform.

[jh45gun]

320 in the 50 cal and 380 in the 54 cal. I normally shoot my open sight guns at 50 yards and they shoot great at that distance I never shot them at 100 but I watched a guy that did and he had no problems with them at that distance.  I sight my guns in a bit high at 50 yards as that is usually the distance I get shooting at in WI thick woods.

[offhand35]

I had great success with the LEE REAL 320 grain bullets with my T/C New Englander when I had that. NOW I'm using an H&A  underhammer 50CAL, 32" bb with 1:66" twist, which is actually a round ball shooter. (Yes, I got it from Blue Grouse BP!)  BUT, I wanted something with a little more downrange punch. I finally got it to shoot by dropping a 50  CAL WonderWad on top of the powder  before the bullet which is lubed with T/C Bore Butter.

See the attached photos......

The group is a little high, but that's been adjusted....






These bullets are so easy to cast, and I am very happy with them! I did not get a shot last season, not that I did not see deer....THIS season hopefully will be different.....

[offhand35]

You know, I did not address your original question, about the REAL bullets sliding out of place.......

I did find that some of the bullets would load more loosely than others, and also give fliers. I would expect that those MIGHT slide forward off the charge if the rifle were bumped...

What I do is mike them all before lubing them up, and put aside in the lead pot all the smaller ones. Then I weigh the rest, and keep the ones that are +/- 2 grains of the majority....

[WD45]

I have never had a problem with them and they will shoot well out of a RB barrel most of the time. They also kill deer very well :grin:

[Winter Hawk]

This question came up on the MLML forum several years ago, and I have read of it happening in various publications.  Several of the folks on that forum said they had had problems with conicals moving off the powder during hunting.  One said he actually got a bulged barrel from this.  The jostling with the muzzle down allows the bullet to wander.  This does not happen with a patched round ball which seems tohold in place better.  The consensus on MLML was that, when using conicals, you should stop every fifteen minutes or so and ram the bullet back down.  Carrying the rifle with the muzzle up should also aleviate this.

I used the REAL bullet in a .50 T-C Pennsylvania Hunter and it was real accurate at 100 yards.  The barrel was a 1 in 60" twist for round ball, so I was very pleased with the performance.  

Hope this helps.

-WH-

[crow_feather]

I always thought that the REAL was intended as a target bullet.

I believe that there are 2 sizes per caliber.  A short one for 1:60 twist and a longer one for faster twists.  (or the other way around)

Wet weather or snow prevents muzzle up as I don't trust tape etc.
And as for every 15 minute checking, what happens if you see your deer after carrying the rifle for 14 minutes?  If the REAL has a chance of leaving the powder, I think I would use something else.  It isn'tworth a new barrel when there are other alternatives.

C F

[jh45gun]

CF, I really feel the REAL would be no different than any other conical slipping in the bore. I can feel mine engrave going down the bore so I know it is not going to move. As far as a target bullet I do not know what it is designed for but a chunk of lead that big to me would be a good projectile to hunt with.  I think the big issue is instead of the bullet sliding forward in the bore is folks getting said projectile seated against the powder in the first place. What they thought was a slipped conical may have been a short started one? Jim

[crow_feather]

I would hope that you are correct.  I have no personal knowledge of REAL bullets other than I have a mold for a 45 cal REAL and no 45 Cal rifle. It seems that the REAL slipped in popularity quickly with the advent of Buffalo bullets (NUFF SAID) and others.

Rumors can really hurt a good thing, I would hope that the information is more than rumor being passed along.

C F

[jh45gun]

The nice thing is that the REAL bullets are available of course in Lee's afordable Molds!!!!!!!!!!!! I like Lee stuff I do wish they would make a few more conical molds in other styles like the buffalo bullets. Ticks me off the Lee can sell their molds with handles included that work just fine for under 20 bucks for the single cavity and Lyman and others are  50 bucks for the molds and then they nick ya for a pair of handles. so you have over 80 bucks in just one set up. Yea I know after you have the handles you can switch off but for 80 bucks I can buy 4 Lee molds. Jim

[rickyp]

RCBS, lyman and redding and the others do charge quite a lot for the molds  and lee charges  what you would pay for a set of handles for a mold and handles.

I have found the lee to work well but are not as high quality. I have had to repair more then one set of lee handles and it you use them very heavy they will warp and become useless. I don't see the average person needing to go trough more then 1 or 2 molds in a life time.

[Longcruise]

I have two first hand experiences of conicals slipping in the bore.

First was in my wife's .58 and was a Lee modern minie.  It was firmly seated and as is often recommended with a skirted slug, it was rapped to flare the skirt into the rifleing once seated on the powder.  The wife was carrying her rifle at sorta port arms and dipped it down then back up.  I thought I saw a mouse pop out of the muzzle and then go back down   It was the slug :eek:

Another time a partner had a maxi move halfway down his barrel in his .54 Renegade.  And, no he did not fail to seat it all the way.  He luckily found it by checking for that very possiblilty and did not fire the rifle with the slug off the charge.

Most in my hunting group now shoot round balls for this very reason.  If you want more punch, use a bigger bore :grin:

The real bullets were tack drivers in my .50 at 50 yards and spread to 12 inch or larger groups at 100. :eek:

[jh45gun]

I have two first hand experiences of conicals slipping in the bore.

First was in my wife's .58 and was a Lee modern minie.  It was firmly seated and as is often recommended with a skirted slug, it was rapped to flare the skirt into the rifleing once seated on the powder.  The wife was carrying her rifle at sorta port arms and dipped it down then back up.  I thought I saw a mouse pop out of the muzzle and then go back down   It was the slug :eek:

Another time a partner had a maxi move halfway down his barrel in his .54 Renegade.  And, no he did not fail to seat it all the way.  He luckily found it by checking for that very possiblilty and did not fire the rifle with the slug off the charge.

Most in my hunting group now shoot round balls for this very reason.  If you want more punch, use a bigger bore :grin:

The real bullets were tack drivers in my .50 at 50 yards and spread to 12 inch or larger groups at 100. :eek:

Not sure about other conicals but REAL bullets are supposed to engrave the rifleing going down that should make them tight enough not to move. Minnies are made undersize from what I have read about them so I could see them moving. A conical that is a snug fit on the way down should not move. I know round ballers disdain conicals and will say they are no good. I like them as I do round balls and shoot both. Jim

[lostid]

oop's no topic

[Good time Charlie]

If you are going to hunt with lee bullets I would mike them. I have gotten some under sized ones when casting. I think this my doing as I haven't been casting long and sometimes get inconsistent results.
                Charlie

[Longcruise]

Not sure about other conicals but REAL bullets are supposed to engrave the rifleing going down that should make them tight enough not to move. Minnies are made undersize from what I have read about them so I could see them moving. A conical that is a snug fit on the way down should not move. I know round ballers disdain conicals and will say they are no good. I like them as I do round balls and shoot both. Jim

Yes, that's where they get the name Rifleing-Engraved-At-Loading.  I have shot the REAL bullets but never carried in the field.  OTOH, the minie mold I used for the .58 gun was an oversize .581 and it pretty much engraved at loading too (the tight fit made for better accuracy).  The Maxi in my friends gun engraved at loading too.

My thoughts are that engrave or not, you're sliding a greased slug down the bore and by the time it gets to the bottom it's pretty much sized and at it's least as far as tight fit goes.  Not knocking the use of conicals, just pointing out my own first hand observations.

While it made a round baller out of me, this year my back up gun will be a .50 cal with a conical (gave my .54 back up gun to a son in law).  The .50 with a round ball is legal here for elk but does not inspire my confidence.  Have not decided what conical it will be, but most likely the lyman plains bullet.

[Naphtali]

R.E.A.L. bullets should be no more likely to move [toward muzzle] when carrying the rifle muzzle down than any other conical that is loaded naked.

The problem you detect is that lead is a metal with no spring-back. To reduce the likelihood of the bullet moving -- this is the belt-and-suspenders solution -- you can use an "over shot wad" that shotgun shooters use. Of course you'll need to have a punch to alter size to .502 ± .003. This wad will secure the bullet. It will induce no inaccuracy, but don't you think this is a bit much?

[Ramrod]

Gentlemen, I'd like to make a couple of points here.
#1. The R.E.A.L. bullet is NOT a minie, it is alot harder to get started into the bore, as it is a much tighter fit.
#2. There was a bit of unpleasantness back in the 1860's fought with conical bullets (minie balls) on both sides, and the sliding out of the bore thing was not reported as a problem, even after long marches, and short terrified runs.
We blackpowder shooters seem to be as guilty as any housewife in spreading rumors. (or old wive's tales.)

[lostid]

all I have read on this thread is,"not sure", "should be", " on the other hand", ",,,
 if ya don't know gents,,,,,hold yer speak,,it does get wearysum ta hear the flock bleat.

 REAL's? what are ya gonna shoot'm in? and how do ya shoot bullet's now? what is yer change and why? fast twist, or slow? Gonna pop can's? or are ya gonna hunt meat or trophy?
 What do you expect from these bullets and why?
 want some help?,,not sure I can,,but I'll share with ya what I've done.

[crow_feather]

lostid,

That was really unkind, what you wrote about other people who were only exchanging thoughts and theories.  Sometimes I wonder if you do that just to see how much of a rise you can get out of people.  Maybe you could grow in mind, and discover ways to present your thoughts without hurting other people.  I know that it isn't your desire to be rude and uncouth, and I want you to be the first to know that I believe you are a good person, no matter how mean you try to be.

God bless you man,

C F,

[Longcruise]

#1. The R.E.A.L. bullet is NOT a minie, it is alot harder to get started into the bore, as it is a much tighter fit.
#2. There was a bit of unpleasantness back in the 1860's fought with conical bullets (minie balls) on both sides, and the sliding out of the bore thing was not reported as a problem, even after long marches, and short terrified runs.
We blackpowder shooters seem to be as guilty as any housewife in spreading rumors. (or old wive's tales.)

Well, as I related, first hand knowledge of minie (oversize and hard to start) moved and a TC Maxi Ball moved.  So, that's not an old wives tale, but first hand obserevation.

OTOH, because it was not reported as a problem, it may well have been so commonplace and understood as to not bear mention.  Kinda like we all know we should drive on the right side of the road and it does not bear much mention.  Exceptions are the Brits of course who have their own idea of the right.... er... correct side of the road. :grin:

you can use an "over shot wad" that shotgun shooters use. Of course you'll need to have a punch to alter size to .502 ± .003. This wad will secure the bullet. It will induce no inaccuracy, but don't you think this is a bit

Seems like a great idea and I'm going to try it.  I still have a REAL mold around here somewhere and maybe I should cast a few and give them a go around at trying to make them move in the bore.

[lostid]

I apologize to you cf,,but not the others that dispele information without experiance,,i am a realist, and your right, i have much to learn about the way i say my words.I have done this trad bp thing for lot's of years,and i weary of the argument. the same arguments over and again.i apologized to that shooter feller,what happened to that thread ain't my fault,,,,,,,never posted again after "steppin on toes" and he was good about it.
 i didn't write anything ,,nor did i qoute anyone,,about anything or another,,i said" woulda,shoulda,coulda" shouldn't say.if ya done it say so. f ya ain't then don't. i listen to those that have that i haven't,and don't wanna fight those that haven't what i have. a simple man,i know 'sum stuff, but only mostly what i dun.

 it is not i that need too post to "get a rise" out of folks, i wathched the war that split the board, i didn't say nuthin, now it's your board.
 don't responde here,,if you think i have something to share fine,if not that's fine too,,you call it,pm,you chose, i read daily mostly,,,,

[Naphtali]

rickyp:

Now that the topic is pretty well covered -- that is,

1. Some of us use R.E.A.L. projectiles, but in .54- rather than .50- caliber (I use 300-grain .54-calibers).

2. R.E.A.L. projectiles are not Minié balls in that they are without hollow base and are bore ID on top ring.

3. Sliding forward in normal use may or may not be a problem, but it's one that, once you identify it, you are able to control it.

4. If a .50-caliber pistol bullet and .50-caliber RB are adequate for deer, R.E.A.L. projectiles will be adequate also.

Now that we've covered the topic, will you let us be uncivil toward one another? Think of it this way: What's the point of having a civility rule if it is not enforced?

[crow_feather]

lostid,

May your days be long, your nights be active, and your posts be full of good information.  I have to admit that you always bring a little excitement to the thread besides good info.  I enjoy reading your thoughts.  

As far as real bullets, well, they might slip in some rifles and might not in others, but why take the chance when a 54 prb will get the job done the way God meant it to be done in 1837.

C F

[filmokentucky]

I shoot PRBs in my flintlock firearms. I only ever use minie balls in my '53 Enfield. Don't mix 'em up. They never slip at all ever. Not once. I slipped a few times, though. Fell down too. Hate it when that happens. Probably a sign of age.

[Ramrod]

filmokentucky has the right idea, the one I try to follow. Shoot the traditional load of the weapon you are using! Roundballs in roundball guns, bullets in bullet guns. Why try to re-invent the wheel?
Sorry crow-feather, but God didn't quit in 1837, He gave us all those wonderfull Civil War weapons to play with also. :lol:
lostid, you have a lot of good things to share, but try to remember, some of us have interests that start way before, and sometimes, after the fur trade era. It is all history, after all.
And finally, gee, it's awful hard to argue with offhand35's target. But I also think those industrious New Englander's were using bullets as early as 1830.

[S.S.]

2 more cents!
In my experience with a 28 inch barrel .50 cal.Hawkin replica ,
Lee REAL bullets are Accurate, Relatively easy to load,
and do a respectable job on whitetail. I have never had
one slip back up the bore that I am aware of, And as stated before,
the molds are quite affordable.  The last deer my brother took with
a ML was with a REAL bullet. out of a 22 inch barrel
Custom Hawken.  Range was about 80 yards,
.50 cal. with 70 grains of RS pyrodex. He hit it high behind the
front shoulder about 8 inches below the spine. The deer hit the ground
dead in its tracks. Broken back and the exit hole was over an inch
in diameter. My Nephew Shot a deer last year with the same
rifle and load combination, with pretty much the same results.
His deer was only at about 45 yards and he hit it just
as it saw him and started to bolt.  The impact spun the deer
around about a quarter turn before it dropped.
I have fired REAL bullets out of several different types of rifles and
One thing I have noticed is that the real bullet likes a slower
twist rifling.  My Hawkin is a 1:66 and they are deadly in it.
They are also sensitive to how much powder you use.
Anything over about 75 grains in mine and the accuracy falls off
drastically. Although I can't foresee needing any more powder
than that for anything I am ever going to shoot at!

[commanche]

i had to laugh here on this subject of real bullets moving in barrel.i guess i should not laugh but its hard for me to believe a real or maxi would move.                                          i have been using the 370 gr.maxi-ball in my tc .50 cal hawkins for 35 years,i bet. it was in 70s you could use them for deer here in pa.our group all have hawkins bought in 70s,all.50 cal.we hunt hard, leave bullets in our guns if we are going out next day to hunt. our guns are banged around in vehiciles and brush and dropped or hit a tree once in awhile.                                                                          not 1 time in over 30 years did i hear of one of us have a MAXI-BALL  move in barrel ,not once.we used bore butter and still do.we also check at end of day to see IF  the bullet moved.none have ever moved, not 1.  so, i dont know what is happening with some here.                                                   i went out today and lubed up a .370 gr MAXI-BALL  and pushed it down barrel with bore butter,nice and slippery. i then took a RUBBER MALLET,put tape on my butt plate of stock and rapped it hard 10 times.i then checked with ramrod to see if the MAXI-BALL  moved. it did not move a hair.you will never get a rap in woods like i did on that stock today .                                                          i have never heard of this happening in over 35 years of hard hunting and shooting. :roll: