Anyone have trouble with USPS with mailing rifle/shotguns?

[like2shoot]

I recently inquired at my local PO about mailing a Pardner back to the factory for the 20 gage Ultra slug barrel. All I received at first was " you can't mail a shotgun or rifle back because they are dangerous ". I checked the USPS web sight and found a toll free # and an e-mail inquiry. I used both and was told I could ship R/S by mail. ( Which I already knew was correct ). I phoned the local postmaster and she stated that the other two answers I had were incorrect ! After much negotiations and calls and wasted time she conceded that I was correct. I wasn't even ready to order, but will now because I can. Anyone else have these oportunittys in mailing ?  

[marv]

I think I would UPS, That's what did a few years ago  on a Remington,
Sent for repairs, Some of the local Post Offices can be syubern Bull headed, Plumb dumb as a bucket of rocks. My 2 cents Marv.

[buckbeast]

I sent in for a couple of shotgun barrels a few months ago through the usps and didn't have any trouble at all. I insured the packages and all, but just didn't tell them what was inside.
Buck

[lik2hunt]

#1 - The H&R website clearly states under the barrel accessory program link to not mark the contents of the package on the outside of the package, or someting like that. I put 2 and 2 together and figured that meant not to let the USPS know what you were sending.
#2 - You are NOT sending the whole gun, only the receiver and foreend if you are doing it correct.
I sent my Pardner receiver and forrend in for a barrel awhile back. Sent it USPS w/ $50 insurance. It  took two weeks for it to get to H&R from Okla.

[ScatterGunner]

there is no problem at all with shipping any legal unloaded firearm through the USPS. the clerk who waited on you was uninformed.

there may be state laws that prevent you from shipping the evil handgun out of your state (or even carrying it out of state) as it is here in the fine state of No York.

i have shipped, many times, shotguns from ny to florida with no problems at all. it is advised that you not write things like "GUNS ENCLOSED" on the box anywhere, give the box a low profile.

if you ship ammo, be sure to print "ORM-D" on the box clearly. i'm not kidding here. this is the magic spell that will transport your ammo through the USPS system !


sg

[handirifle]

like2shoot
I had the same problem here in Kalifornia.  The bonehead behind the counter told me it was against "federal law", to which I laughed and said that if I was buying the gun she might be correct but it was going back for repairs.  She said it had to be shipped from a dealer.

I had to tell here that was not true and insisted she show me in writing.  She couldn't and finally took it.  That was my BC and it was going back for a replacement barrel so I had to ship the whole gun.  It only came up when she asked how much insurance I wanted and I said $400 because of the tang sight mount alone was $60 plus the $350 I paid for the gun.  I figured as soon as I didn't fully cover it they WOULD lose it.

It is now either UPS or FEDEX wit my guns.  You can track them too.  I work for the Federal gvmt, and we are real ineffecient, but this is what happens when we privatize.

[quickdtoo]

Well fellas, most long guns may be shipped in the mail, period! Ammo is another matter though and can't be shipped. From Pub 52:

c. Small Arms Ammunition. Ammunition is classified as a Division 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, or 1.4 explosive depending on the degree of hazard. Ammunition that is regulated as a Class 1 explosive and designed to be fired from a pistol, revolver, rifle, or shotgun, as well as associated primers and blank cartridges (including those designed for tools) and propellant powder for use in any firearm, is prohibited from mailing.

http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52.htm

I'm retired after 32 yrs in the US Postal Service, the people that work there are just like you and me, most are good and some aren't. Most know what they're doing and some just get by, if you know what I mean. There's a thread a AR right now about a varmint hunter was going on a hunt and needed to ship his 2400 rounds of handloads cuz he was flying to his hunt then pickin up his shipment that UPS handled for him. He got all his ducks in a row before hand and made sure of the UPS regs. On the day he was to ship he was told he couldn't. After a couple trips back and forth and some phone calls to upper management, he finally shipped em just in the nick......Anyway, the USPS has regs and people try to follow em as best they can, just like UPS and FEDEX but sometimes when in doubt, they take the easy way and just say no when accepting hazardous materials. I would not recommend getting caught shipping ammunition through the mail, the fines are hefty and the hassle certainly would not be worth it. Just a heads up for those interested.    Tim

[Mitch in MI]

The way I look at it, FED-UPS are anti-gun organizations, USPS just has some anti-gun employees. USPS also has clearly written rules, just tell the fool at the counter to have a look at the Domestic Mail Manual (DMM) instead of wasting time arguing with them.
Every time I see a gun distributor's shipping policies that state all handguns must be shipped UPS overnight for $40, I want to ask them why the **** they don't just mail them instead of helping UPS rip us off? I haven't shipped anything UPS since they instituted that policy. (and I was on a first-name basis with my UPS driver at the time)

[dangerranger]

My problem is that the post office and ups office near my home are both contract stations and neither will accept guns.When I went to the main PO I was told not to mark the package in any way that would hint at its contents. even the address should not be to an arms co.but I must declare its contents on the ins.form.they also told me that contract stations dont have to folow the same rules as fed post offices. other than the 80 mi round trip the experiance at the post office was alot better than expected. PS when the guns were returned the contract station never knew what hit them.

[Deadeye47]

Every time I go to my USPS and stand in line with a dozen other people while 4 or 5 "Postal employees"screw around behind the desk while only ONE window is open PISSES me off!!! Almost as much as the scrolling neon sign that says the postal employees are ther to help you!!!!!!!!!!!  When asked if there is anything hazardous or harmful or explosive in the box the answer is NO! DO DO NOT MARK THE CONTENTS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BOX!!! You will become more of a moron than they are!!!!!!  Do I want insurance for it? Yes! 200 dollars for the precission machined parts in the box...I also want a signature for receipt of delivery.....thats it...they get no other info..You have answered their required questions truthfully and the rest is none of their (censored word) business!!!  :x ..........Nothing personal quickdtoo...

[Mitch in MI]

A friend of mine who's in the airgun business has been known to ship "pneumatic paper punches".

[handirifle]

deadeye
I'll have to remember the "precision machined parts" line.  definatley true on that part.

[MSP Ret]

I ship "machined metal parts" by USPS Piority Mail with delivery confirmation ($.45!) with no problems and have done so for a few years now....<><.... :grin:

[singleshotfan]

All the UPS stores and franchises have signs and written instructions which state they do not ship firearms. You have to go to the main UPS facility to do this. This makes sense???
So if I use UPS I never ship firearms but have been known to ship "machine parts" from time to time.
Probably time to boycott the bastards altogether.
Richard

[oneshotonekill]

Never had trouble getting the USPS to ship a long gun or long gun parts.  I did however have them bash the daylights out of a Mossberg 835 ultimag.  Scratched up both barrels, broke the plastic trigger guard into 3 pieces and managed to loose choke tubes out of the box.  I filed a claim and they bought me a new trigger assembly, and choke tubes, even offered to pay for a re-blue of the barrels.  May have just been a good postmaster handling the insurance claim but they made good on the damages they caused.  I think they ran it over with the truck.  I have heard several tails of people not making out so good shipping firearms with USPS.

[Sourdough]

I always use the USPS, since UPS and FED EX, charge $51.00 dollers shipping period for anything out of Alaska, and will only ship to a liscened dealer.  Our postal Clerks here in North Pole are rather knowledgable about shipping guns, they ship so many.    The only time I've had trouble with the USPS was in Washington DC.  I had a barrel forwarded to me following the move there.  The USPS clerk called the BATF, when I showed up to pick up the package.  Since I was on a Federal Installation (Bolling AFB) it was legal to have firearms, they could not do anything about it.

[stolivar]

Deadeye....  
 
As soon as one of your packages does not make it through the mail and is damaged and lost, you will have an insurance claim.... therefore you will have been caught lying on your insurance form stating you have precission machined parts in the box... Guess what, you have just committed a felony by US Law and BATF REGs....... It is indeed their business to know what is in the box and it is your business to comply with the regs and the law.  I guess some people like to visit the bofu inn wearing a nice little number on their shirts and a felony conviction that will haunt them for the rest of their life...
 
 
steve the mailman

[Deadeye47]

Deadeye....  
 
As soon as one of your packages does not make it through the mail and is damaged and lost, you will have an insurance claim.... therefore you will have been caught lying on your insurance form stating you have precission machined parts in the box... Guess what, you have just committed a felony by US Law and BATF REGs....... It is indeed their business to know what is in the box and it is your business to comply with the regs and the law.  I guess some people like to visit the bofu inn wearing a nice little number on their shirts and a felony conviction that will haunt them for the rest of their life...
 
 
steve the mailman

A.Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of ANY shipment of rifles or shotguns. The ATF is however. It is not a felony to send precission machined parts in for repair.  B. A non-licensee may (thats ME!) may MAIL a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his own state or a licencee in ANY state.  C. A non licencee may NOT transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The postal service recommends( see A.!!!) that longguns be sent  by registered mail and that NO MARKING OF ANY KIND which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.   D. a nonlicencee MAY SHIP a a firearm to himself in care of another person in the state where he intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the OWNER. Persons other than the owner should not open the package. It is not a felony to mail your precission machined parts to yourself in another state.You own it...It's not changing owners. Fortunately I have never had a claim for loss....but thats just because I wasn't stupid enough to put firearm on the outside of the box. I do pack it very well cause the carriers will tear the hell out of it if at all possible. That is a given. I'm not concerned with breaking any laws because I'm not breaking any laws... :wink:

[quickdtoo]

cause the carriers will tear the hell out of it if at all possible. That is a given....:wink:

Deadeye, don't blame the carriers, they handle parcels very little in comparison to the automated handling which is where 99% of the damaged parcel happens. If you, the customer wrap and pack properly, that parcel will make it to it's destination in good health. The problem is, what is properly packed to one person can be a farce when compared to reality. Some people just don't use good judgement when packing for mailing. I've seen bowling balls sent thru the mail with no packing, just the ball in a box, sooner or later in the mail stream, the ball and box are going to part company. This is an extreme example but if you use a little common sense in packing, it works just fine. I've sent tons of stuff thru the mail and never had a problem, but I used to work as a shipping clerk when I was a teen and learned how to pack for safe shipping. The customers that bring in stuff for mailing in those flimsy clothing boxes you get shirts in for CHRISTmas are the ones that really chapped my hide, they just don't have a clue.  :wink:

[ScatterGunner]

i just mailed a rifle and a shotgunback to NEF using the USPS. no problems at all. at one time i was asked about shipping ammo to my dad down in florida for a wingshoot. as long as you write "ORM-D" on the box you can ship ammo.

i also shipped a shotgun to my cousin, he's in florida, i'm in new york, i told the postal dude what i was doing and everything was ok.

so, i'll continue to ship my guns via the USPS !

sg

[Double D]

Years ago(Jan, 1969) I shipped a 12 inch diameter net wrapped glass fishing float from FPO Hawaii to Oregon.  I asked the mail clerk  the best way to send it. The clerk handed me a large wire on tag.  I attached the tag to the netting and paid $.95 postage and sent it on its way.  I didn't show up in Oregon until mid March. The rural mail carrier delivered by hanging it on the mail box by the netting.   I still have the float and the tag.  On the tag is stamped "MISSENT TO FIELD DISTRIBUTION CENTER U.S. ARMY LIBRARIES, VIETNAM APO 96348  20 FEB'

The Marines didn't send me to Vietnam, but the Navy sent my glass float there...

[Deadeye47]

I understand what your saying quickdtoo and steve..I just have a bad taste in my mouth from dealing with carriers...it's not just the USPS. I think it boils down to pride that you take in your job. There are allot of employees these days that are there for the sole purpose of collecting a paycheck and their benifits. Thats great...but it's NOT what I'm paying for. My postal carrier in Tulsa put a bad taste in my mouth...I won't bore you with the details but SHE had no business doing what she was being PAID to do and it really burns my A$$ to help fund her retirement with the post office!!!Never got my mail,,missed delivered 4 or 5 doors down...the people 4 or 5 doors down their mail in my box . Wouldn't deliver if there was a car parked at the curb in front of the mail box...Too tough to haul her fat A$$ out or the vehicle and take a step or two and put the mail in the box...heck she might burn a calorie or two...wouldn't want that!! Geeze what a lazy good for nuttin......never mind and good riddance. Anyway being located where I am now...all my mail goes thru Houston. Gorillaville!! Also my neighbor ,she lives next door, sent me a card after my mom died it was processed thru Houston ,76 miles away, and I got it a week after it was post marked and it was beat up!!  Yeah I pack my stuff for shipping very well....it apparently gets handled (abused) allot. Does anyone think that a parking attendant that brought your car to you all bashed and scratched up would be allowed to continue working in his job? How about the server in the cafeteria who dumps your food right on the tray and stirs it with her hand and smiles at ya?

[quickdtoo]

.... at one time i was asked about shipping ammo to my dad down in florida for a wingshoot. as long as you write "ORM-D" on the box you can ship ammo.
sg

SG, Long guns aren't an issue, the regs plainly indicate that they may be mailed to or by individuals with or without an FFL. Ammunition is another totally different matter. The regs plainly state that they are not mailable, period, end of discsussion, no and/if/buts.....There are clerks that are basically ignorant and will do what ever the customer asks to avoid conflict and make their day go easy. Lack of knowledge can be a problem and in an organization as big as the post office with as many employees as they have, there are more than enough of those less than knowledgeable clerks. The catchall ORM-D just indicates limited hazardous material, of which ammunition is not considered. The quote in my earlier post and link to the  Pub 52 does not leave any doubt as to being able to ship ammuntion through the mail.

http://www.usps.com/mailerscompanion/janfeb2004/mc0204art5.htm

[quickdtoo]

IWouldn't deliver if there was a car parked at the curb in front of the mail box... Anyway being located where I am now...all my mail goes thru Houston. Gorillaville!! Also my neighbor ,she lives next door, sent me a card after my mom died it was processed thru Houston ,76 miles away, and I got it a week after it was post marked and it was beat up!!  

I don't think I can defend ALL of the inadequacies of the postal service but there are a few facts that a lot of people aren't aware of. A carrier driving a delivery vehicle like an LLV is generally on a mounted route, meaning they stay mounted unless they have a delivery that requires a signature or a parcel which won't fit in the box. Vehicles parked in front of mail boxes are a bain to carriers because they take time to deal with. Time, some carriers don't have any extra of because of route exams that cut time and add deliveries to get the mail handled in the least amount of time. Carriers are not required to dismount due to a blocked mail box, some do as a courtesy, some don't. I'm not saying your carrier wasn't lazy, but may have just been following rules.

Mail is processed in what used to be called area mail processing, don't know if the term is still used. But the process still remains, all the mail is accumulated at a central mail sort facility, it may be in your town, or in Deadeye's case, 76 miles away! It all has to do with saving money, not necessarily with doing what you and I think makes sense. The abused card you got from your neighbor was probably the result of high speed letter sorting machines. If for example your little girl sends her friend a charm or some sort of lumpy object in a letter, something that a lot of people do without realizing it is prohibited by the USPS to send objects like keys, coin and other hard objects in unpadded envelopes normally used for paper documents. The piece of mail is going to jam up the highspeed equipment if someone doesn't cull it out first. When it jams up, the mail behind it gets all torn up and usually the customer will get a piece of mail in a little plastic envelope with an apology imprinted on it for damaging the mail piece when in reality the damage was caused by an ignorant customers actions. Your mail carrier is the last person to handle that piece of mail and should have provided a label or envelope to give you the letter with an explanation of why it's in the condition it's in IF they noticed it. Sometimes they don't even know it's damaged until they are at your delivery place because a portion of the mail, that which meets machineability requirements is entirely sorted by machines, never gets human handling until the carrier removes it from a tray to stick in your mail box.

Anyway, that's about it for this lesson in postal 101.  :grin:  .....Tim

[stolivar]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you about your carrier delivering your mail all over the place.. (Bad Mailman) You should report her to the Postmaster. They keep records on bad deliveries.. Mail carriers are told not to get out to deliver to mailboxes that are blocked. ( there are several reasons. 1. it is not safe to leave the vehicle double parked out in the street and not legal. 2. for every house that the carrier has to get out of the vehicle because you parked in front of the box adds time to the route and puts the carrier in over time... ) Postmasters hate that and it adds to the cost of your stamp. If you have over 600-700 house on that route it don't take long to be way over your time on the route... Carriers are expected to do the route in a certain time.   Believe me you well be surprised on how many block the mail box day after day after day...... and it is a whole lot of them... It is not the carrier that beats up your packages. it is that way when we get them at our office. Some of us take great pride with our work, and some don't give a rats behind. We have a couple of those at our office..



steve the mailman

[ScatterGunner]

quick -

according to your reference (52 is vague at best), firearms are considered restricted materials. see below.

hey look, if the postal employee's will allow the stuff to be shipped after i brought to their attention what i am shipping, then it there A$$ not mine. i exercised due diligence declaring my package contents and destination, they (a USPS employee) said it was OK. thus, according to the rules, the postal employee who "knowingly deposits" the shipment ( to take place after he/she was knowledgable about it is equally if not more so) is liable for the act. according to the rules anyway.

i 'll test that one in any court any day.

sg

rules follow:

122 Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable
The following are examples of hazardous materials, restricted matter, and perishable matter. These are not complete lists, but they provide an idea of the types of articles included in each category.
a. Hazardous materials (DMM C023) include:
(1) Corrosives.
(2) Explosives.
(3) Flammable liquids and solids, combustible liquids.
(4) Gases (under pressure).
(5) Infectious substances, etiologic agents, clinical specimens, biological products, sharps, other used medical devices.
(6) Miscellaneous hazardous materials (i.e., dry ice, magnetized materials).
(7) ORM-D materials.
( Oxidizers, organic peroxides.
(9) Radioactive materials.
(10) Toxic substances (poisons).
b. Restricted matter (DMM C024) includes:
(1) Abortive and contraceptive devices.
(2) Battery-powered devices.
(3) Building construction materials.
(4) Controlled substances and drug paraphernalia.
(5) Firearms.
(6) Intoxicating liquors.
(7) Liquids and powders.
( Matter emitting obnoxious odors.
(9) Motor vehicle master keys.
(10) Nonhazardous liquids and powders.
(11) Sharp objects (knives, switchblades, stilettos).
(12) Odd-shaped items in letter-size envelopes.
c. Perishable matter (DMM C022) includes:
(1) Dead animals or parts of animals.
(2) Eggs.
(3) Live animals.
(4) Meat and meat products.
(5) Plants and plant products.
13 Additional Information

[quickdtoo]

SG, yer gonna get yer butt in a sling with thinkin like that, I can guarantee it...If you mail ammo and get caught, the accepting clerk only has to say you didn't fess up, and you're left holding the bag. Ignorance of the law is no excuse and postal inspectors and the DOT don't tolerate violators. As for the guns, you need to read section 431....here's the good part....

d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 U.S.C. 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 431.2b and c.
432.2.....

IIRC, the GCA deals with automatic weapons and short barreled weapons like sawed off shotguns and other illegal firearms.

Here's another source that will enlighten you....

http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/shipping.htm

[ScatterGunner]

quick -

seriously, in your defense, i have to say that the USPS is one of the few government entities that actually does something and does it right. for 37 cents they will deliver a letter across the country, try that with fedex or ups !

i remember when stamps were about 15 cents in 1964something or so, peanuts. now, 40 years later and it 37 cents, still peanuts.

so given the job, a tough one at best, i do have good things to say about the USPS. but if i ship ammo to florida, i don't think the 68 year old postal clerk in punta gorda florida will call janet reno or marshall dillon if i ship a flat of 410's down there for a wingshoot !!!

 :grin:

sg

[quickdtoo]

quick -
... but if i ship ammo to florida, i don't think the 68 year old postal clerk in punta gorda florida will call janet reno or marshall dillon if i ship a flat of 410's down there for a wingshoot !!!

 :grin:

sg

Thanks for the USPS praise!  :grin:

That little old postal clerk doesn't have to, mail is x-rayed regularly and routinely, if it is discovered in the mail stream, you know who's butt is gonna be responsible and it isn't gramma postal clerk's...

[Mitch in MI]

IIRC, the GCA deals with automatic weapons and short barreled weapons like sawed off shotguns and other illegal firearms.

quick, you've confused the NFA with the GCA, and "heavily taxed&restrictively licensed" with "illegal".

The National Firearms Act (of 1934?) covers full autos, short barreled rifles and shotguns, etc.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 is all about registration and tracking, after Oswald was said to have shot JFK with a mail-order Carcano. If somebody were to shoot a president with a newly purchased gun and leave it at the scene, they can find out who imported it, who distributed it, what dealer they sent it to, and then, from the 4473 you filled out (yellow sheet) identify the buyer. The term "destructive device" for things like M80 firecrackers and 20mm rifles may also have been part of GCA68, I'm not entirely sure there. BTW, Charlton Heston loudly supported passage of GCA 1968.