223 for dear hunting

[DAD]

FIRST LET ME SAY I'm LOOKING FOR FACTS NOT TO START A WAR! THANK YOU !!!      In Michigan The legal centerfire for Big game animals is 5MM centerfire [dear and bear]. Has anyone used this 223 to hunt these animals with? What weight bullet? Hollow point or 55 grain solids? Bullets like Remington core locks or Winchester Silver tips? My twist rate is only for that grain or under[55 grain]. I'm thinking neck or head shots and under 200 yards. Anyone have any experiences good or bad.

[Mitch in MI]

I haven't tried it (no need, have 280, 30-30, and 45-70 barrels) but I'd probably get a box of 60gr Nosler Partitions if I were you.

[iisabigone]

DAD I went on a controlled crop damage hunt one night in a county adjoining where I live back in 1997. We were set up in towers in the beds of trucks shooting deer with lights in their eyes in agriculture fields.

I wasnt sure what I was getting myself into that night when I volunteered to shoot but I had sighted my rifle dead on at 100 yards.  I only squezed the trigger when I was confident of a clean kill.

I killed 9 deer with 9 shells with the .223 handi rifle that night. On close shots under 100 yards I put the cross hair between their eyes and squezed the trigger. It put them to sleep when the trigger broke.

On longer shots up to 200 yds I put the crosshair on the white spot under the chin. This also put them to sleep when the trigger broke.

This was the only hunt of this type I have been on even though I was invited back to shoot many times after that first evening.  It left a bad taste in my mouth afterwords for some reason.  Some of the other shooters lost many deer shooting much larger calibers that night.  All the deer I shot that night went to families that appreceated the venison.

Im not sure of the brand of ammo I used that night its been a long time but I think it was a soft point remmington.  

Would the .223 be my first choice for a deer rifle? Probably not, but it will work in a pinch if you do your part.

[quickdtoo]

Dad, if you do a search on www.google.com  for "deer .223" without the quotes, you'll get lots of pros and cons about this subject. I'll just say it's not legal in a bunch of states for good reason. The .243 is considered by most knowledgeable and ethical hunters as the minimum caliber for deer and would be mine as well.

[mitchell]

here's a few numbers .most hunters go on 1000ft-lbs to kill a deer quick (i.e. 10 sec. until dead, but deer can run up to 40mph so there can still be some tracking involved) if you go buy the 1000ft-lbs rule then a 30-06 with a 165 grain bullet in good up to 524 yards a 300win mag with a 180 grain bullet is about a 685 yard gun. the 223 with a 60 grain bullet would be good for 75 yards . BUT  all of these numbers are for killing with shock not with wound channel . ask a bow hunter if the whole is in the right spot the deer will go down . three years ago i shot a buck with a bow in one lung and tracked it 400 yards , did it die ? yes but was that a fun 4 1/2 hours? NO but still i got my buck . simply said put it where it belongs it will die , you might have to track but that why they call it hunting .


i have a 30-06 handi and a 223 ultra plus a 308 in a mauser 98 but when i get my next crop damage permits i'll be using the 223 its just a darn nice rifle.

[mitchell]

oh and about what bullet make it at least a 55gn . type of bullet would be up to where you chose to place your shots . if you decide to go with head and neck shot ONLY then use a hollow point or a ballistic tip or something that will put all of it force in the first few inches ,your goal is to break the neck so the deer just flops around on the ground then dies . if you  want to go with chest shots go with a bullet that expands very slowly ,not a fmj but something slow like the partitions mitch said .

also remember  (if you pick chest shots) that this rifle with be a deer rifle and does not require 1/2 MOA to kill its game so if a better bullet is just a little less accurate take the better bullet.

[Wlscott]

I've shot more than a few deer with a .223.  Most of them were head shots or neck shots, but if you use a good spire point and put it right behind the shoulder, you won't have a problem.  I've seen deer shot behind the shoulder drop just as fast as if they were shot with a 300 Win Mag.  

With the introduction of the 223 WSM, bullet companies are starting to make heavier, big game type bullets in .224 cal.  If you reload, you might look at the Nosler Partition bullets in that caliber.

[ratherbefishin]

A 223 for deer is perfectly adequite, providing you have a rest and take head/neck shots only and can shoot bottle caps at the ranges you will shoot deer at.
  Matter of fact many a buck has fallen to a 22 LR under those conditions
 But- is it an ideal''deer rifle''?No-because under typical hunting conditions you may not have a steady rest and short ranges.The risk is missing a vital spot and blowing a jaw off, or breaking a leg, gut shooting or any other inhumane result that kills the deer alright- next week.You want something bigger-I'd say a 243 would be my ''minimal'' choice for a deer hunting rifle, and I like the 6.5 swede as my top pick.

[DAD]

I have a 7mm-08 barrel for my handi-rifle that I haven't shot. I was just wondering, I know that hunters use the .233 for hunting. I was concerned  about not  killing humanly. I know its all about bullet placement. I was just wondering if the 55gr could do it or not. The .243 only has 100gr and I know a lot of hunters consider this minimal. I would still like to hear more experiances related to the .223

[marv]

I have never used a 223 but used my 222 Rem a lot including a Big Mule dear buck. 2 shoots within 1/2 inch. He made about 2 steps. that is where he hit the ground. Killed a lot of Central Texas Whitetails, Never one shot pre dear. Useing Sierra 52 gr HPBT. My 243 uses Sierra 85 grain HPBT.
All that has went down the barrel.  One shot one dear on all that I have shot with it. Marv.

[handirifle]

dad
we killed one in Germany, shuhhhh!, many years ago (like 30) with an M-16 (5.56 NATO).  we were on a very remote camp and hungry, not legal bit it wasn't wasted.  

It was a small doe at a range of about 30yds.  It was military ball ammo.  At the shot she jumped about 2 feet in the air and fell down dead.  Shot was through left shoulder and through heart.  Would I reccomend the 223?  Not unless you can have a very controlled shot.  Ideally under 100yds, broadside, standing and unspooked.  I also would reccomend a controlled expansion round no matter where you shoot it.  

As far as 223 WSSM, I've only readone article hunting deer with that round and it took 2 shots and still the animal was not dead.  Took a few minutes more to die.  Why?  Wrong type of bullet.  55gr SP.  VERY  LITTLE penetration and deep tisue damage.

Keep in mind that the Handi will not shoot the 60gr and heavier bullets.  The twist is too slow.

[ratherbefishin]

I knew a surgeon who did a lot of hunting for feral goats on one of the private islands and he used a 22 magnum, took shot right behind the eye and dropped them in their tracks.He figured the 22 magnum was insurance- a 22 LR was perfectly  adequite out to 50 yards.But, he used shooting sticks, a very accurate rifle,and only took shots he was 100% sure of making one shot kills.Under those conditions- and ONLY under those conditions, a 223 is overkill

[Mitch in MI]

I'm pretty well convinced that the handi can't handle a 62gr boattail, but what about 60gr flat base, like the Partition?

The reviewers at Midwayusa.com seem to do all right with 1 in 12", and shoot 3" or worse with 1 in 14".
http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/665774

[JPH45]

It has been quite a while since I commented on the "223 for deer" topic, but as someone far more eloquent than myself once remarked, "Why when there are so many superior choices available?" If one can't take the recoil of a 243, 25-06 or 7-08, I question the ability to deal properly with a 223. Regardless of the recoil generating properties of the cartridge, the principles of breath control, trigger control and sight alignment remain constant.

Many hundreds of deer have been killed with 120 and 130 grain bullets from the 30-30 and 7-30 Waters from 14" handguns! Surely a properly constructed 120 grain bullet from a rifle will do the job.

Edit: a spelling correction

[Big Blue]

It wouldn't be my choice, if I had a 7mm-08 to use. I guess for smaller deer like I've heard they have in Texas, it would suffice, but for 180 pound whitetail, I would pick something that was more up to the task. Of course if my family was hungry, and it was all I had I would use it.
Don

[ratherbefishin]

there are so many variables a simple answear is  not relevent- it all depends on where you are hunting[out of a stand with a good rest at bow hunting ranges] or across logging slashes with 200 yard shots, and where you can place your shots.I wouldn't hesitate to use an accurate scoped  223 if I was in a stand with ranges within 50 yards, and could take my time at standing broadside shots with  rest.One right behind the eye and the deer wouldn't even hear the gun go off. Although not legal, a 22 LRwould do the job equally well under those conditions.
  To a lessor extent it also  depends on the size of the deer- they can range from  100 lb coastal blactails  , to 300 Lb mule deer.
  I believe the world record grizzly was shot in Alberta decades ago with a 22 right in the eye by a native women out berrypicking.But that hardly makes a 22 the weapon of choice for grizzly hunting.

[safetysheriff]

Dad,

Here's my 'dead-deer'  :eek: recipe for .223 Handi Rifle --  my landowner friends know it works:  

One Remington nickel-plated .223 brass; one R-P  7 1/2 BR primer; 26.7 gr's of wc-846 (bulk bl-c(2)); one Hornady spire point in 60 gr's for the 1 in 12 twist of a Handi Rifle.       You can substitue 27.1 gr's of propellant if you substitute a Hornady 55 gr' spire point.     Work up to these loads, or possibly more, with proper care......

Insert bullet into Proper area of head, neck, heart, or lungs/diaphragm and get your knife ready for follow-up duty.     Works on (unexcited) deer of approx' 225 to 250 lbs out to distances of 140 or maybe 150 yds with very quick kills!     Works on smaller, unexcited deer to 200 yds!     Excited deer will run further than 50 yds' in some cases, however, seemingly due to adrenaline rush.      Use of a .22-250 with 60 gr' bullet should extend ranges noted above by 75 yds' or a little more...    

This recipe proves, however, that any 'whitetail cartridge' is NOT adequate for black bear.     Do not use on black bear unless you are seriously depressed with death-wish firmly set in motion!  :-D

Accept no substitutes, of any caliber,  when combined  with poor shooting ability.    

.243 users advocating/using 100 gr' projectiles on deer need not apply!

Take care,

SS'