Author Topic: Old West Gunfighters? (Read 2362 times)

Henry Bowman · « **on:** January 13, 2003, 10:41:10 PM »

Hello to you all, this is my first posting here and have a question for the groups expertise.
Who was the baddest of the old west gunfighters assuming skill at arms and body count would be the major factors in choosing?
Hardin, Hickok, Earp are all names that are large in history, who have I forgotten?

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 14, 2003, 12:07:23 AM »

That's easy John Welsey Hardin

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 14, 2003, 12:12:12 AM »

:-D I got so carried away that I knew an answer, I for got that its a two part question!, I guess it's true that history DOES repeat itself, I did the same thing in school.

James Brothers
Dalton Brothers
I don't remember Butch and Sundances real names
Bill Tillghman

sjc1 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 14, 2003, 12:57:42 AM »

For body count it is John Wesley Hardin. He was also one of the most skilled with a handgun. From what I have read "Wild Bill" Hickok was also as skilled with a handgun but he had no where near the body count of Hardin. The one with the worst disposition was Doc Holiday.
Two interesting books are John Wesley Hardin Texas Gunman by Nordyke, also A Dynasty of Western Outlaws by Paul Wellman.

Capt Hamp Cox · « **Reply #4 on:** January 14, 2003, 04:22:40 AM »

I'll just add a few books to the recommended reading list:

Encyclopedia of Western Gunfighters - Bill O'Neal
Famous Gun fighters of the Western Frontier - W.B. (Bat) Masterson
The Badman of the West - George Hendricks
The Legend Makers - Henry Sinclair Drago
Triggernometry, A Gallery of Gunfighters - Eugene Cunningham
The Gunfighter, Man or Myth? - Joseph G. Rosa
The Shooters - Leon Claire Metz

Old Cane · « **Reply #5 on:** January 14, 2003, 04:24:16 AM »

Got to agree. Hardin.

Hey, Cap...nice buck!

Capt Hamp Cox · « **Reply #6 on:** January 14, 2003, 05:39:22 AM »

Thanks, OC. I was having a hell of a time holding him down until they took the picture.

Capt Hamp Cox · « **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2003, 05:52:49 AM »

Some little known Texas history.

Although not one who I would categorize as a “gunfighter”, one of the most vicious revenge killers I’ve run across was William S. (Scott) Cooley. He was a prominent participant in the relatively obscure Mason County War (also known as the Hoo Doo War). One of his sidekicks during this bloodletting was John Ringo of later Tombstone fame. A historian friend of mine is responsible for the two-part account at the following URLs.

http://www.texfiles.com/texashistory/hoodoowar.htm
http://www.texfiles.com/texashistory/hoodoowar2.htm

Old Cane · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2003, 08:23:12 AM »

Heard about it but not in that much detail. Sounds like a movie....a factual movie would be fascinating.

Henry Bowman · « **Reply #9 on:** January 14, 2003, 09:45:16 AM »

Many thanks for the comments!
Interestingly I found most of Hardins biography online at several Texas oriented sites (insert Texas joke here) and surfed into an old newspaper aticle about Mark Twain traveling to Salt Lake City to meet Americas most renowned gunfighter Orrin Porter Rockwell. Some reports claim Rockwell killed over 150 people, I stayed up till the wee hours last nite reading and I hope I can retrace my path again later.
Rockwell regularly carried several high capacity leverguns, a brace of pistols and an interesting invention of his for "CQB" the Whippet. The Whippet was a sawed off 10ga double barrel carried on a strap around one shoulder under a coat.

Capt Hamp Cox · « **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2003, 12:00:08 PM »

Wasn't he the Morman "enforcer" known as "The Destroying Angel"?

Capt Hamp Cox · « **Reply #11 on:** January 14, 2003, 01:45:18 PM »

Some interesting gunfighter stats.

http://www.theoldwestwebride.com/1.0.4.a.html

Henry Bowman · « **Reply #12 on:** January 14, 2003, 11:29:26 PM »

Why yes sir you are correct, something about "blood" something or other was in several links.
In todays jargon OPR was a bad mofo! Which brings to mind another topic for another forum, " what the heck has happened to our language"??
What? No comments about a double barreled 10 gauge?

BASIC · « **Reply #13 on:** January 16, 2003, 06:12:06 AM »

Capt Hamp Cox,sir,I think the LDS(Mormon)"Destroying Angel"was Porter Rockwell.There was a great movie about him with Charlton Heston as Brigham Young and Tom Barringer as Porter Rockwell,I think.BASIC

Capt Hamp Cox · « **Reply #14 on:** January 20, 2003, 08:09:33 AM »

This is too good a subject to let die. Don't any of you have a favorite "Shootist"? If so, how about telling why you think he's better than the rest.

Here's another link that ranks gunslingers:

http://www.theoldwestwebride.com/txt4/gftr.html

Henry Bowman · « **Reply #15 on:** January 21, 2003, 04:29:13 PM »

Well thanks for the bump Capt Cox, the cobwebs are growing rapidly here.
BTW, isn't the correct word Shottist as opposed to Shootist?
I seem to remember Colonel Cooper mentioning the difference some years back, possibly in an old Gunsite Gossip?

Capt Hamp Cox · « **Reply #16 on:** January 21, 2003, 05:16:09 PM »

Jeff Cooper's Commentaries
Previously Gunsite Gossip
Vol. 4, No. 5 April, 1996

I have been somewhat amused at the spate of indignation I have aroused by insisting that the proper word is "shottist" rather than "shootist". Several people have leafed through a series of dictionaries to tell me that I am wrong about this. Apparently it is a matter of English-English versus American-English. I have been presented on two occasions to audiences in Great Britain and in South Africa as a shottist, and I assume that a proper English language dictionary would support me in this. Our British cousins spell color with a "u" and refer to a fender as a wing. Other examples will occur to you. Personally I prefer shottist, but it appears that I cannot insist upon that.

Henry Bowman · « **Reply #17 on:** January 21, 2003, 05:28:15 PM »

Not me hoss, I was simply making conversation. Maybe I shoulda inserted one of them giggling smiley faces?
Spate of indignation???
Don't tell me that people actually emailed ya over the comment? I reread the thread searching for the spate of indignation but??
GRIN-Smile-LMAO!

Henry Bowman · « **Reply #18 on:** January 21, 2003, 05:35:03 PM »

Orrin Porter Rockwell I meant to insert as the Avenging Angel, one of the Four Horsemen Statues outside SLC.
Porter was unmatched and immune to gunfire as foretold by his mentor Joe Smith as long as Porters locks were never cut.

Capt Hamp Cox · « **Reply #19 on:** January 21, 2003, 07:27:10 PM »

That whole "Spate of indignation" quote is from a Cooper column subsequent to the one you referred to. I was just providing it to show that it appeared he had softened his original position somewhat. Evidently he caught some flack and was responding to same. I just report the news, I don't make it. Just don't call me a "Shoutist".

Henry Bowman · « **Reply #20 on:** January 21, 2003, 08:44:57 PM »

I certainly should have recognised the Colonels writing style, my subscription has somehow got lost over the years and now I mainly check in on the online postings and recently discovered that GGG2 is in print.
Relating to the Guru (maybe), I see Tom Greshams Gun Talk is about to go to TV in an Gun and Ammo Magazine format! Could we all lobby the Gresham folks into including the unforgetable/legendary Coopers Corner?? I for one only buy the rag to read the Colonels thoughts only semi-censored!
Thankyaverymuch

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #21 on:** January 22, 2003, 11:05:41 AM »

Gentlemen,

I'd have to say one of the baddest of the gunfighters would have been Charlie Askins! Now, of course he didn't live in the old west, but he lived in the new west and started his gun throwing profession back in the late 20s or early 30s. I'm not sure how much of what he said was gospel, but in his book, "Unrepentent Sinner," he highlights some very violent accounts of a very violent time, in which he's throwing lead and people are dying. If he told the truth...or even half the truth...he could have knotched his gun butt till there wasn't any wood left!

Dan c

Capt Hamp Cox · « **Reply #22 on:** January 22, 2003, 01:20:59 PM »

If so, he'd be one of probably not very many left handed gunfighters. Any idea which prominant "Old West" gunfighters were left handed? I once served under a Lieutenant Colonel who had worked for Askins when he (Askins) was a US Army Ordnance Corps Colonel. Said Askins was hell on wheels. Incidentally, Colonel Charles Askins wrote a book titled "Gunfighters".

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #23 on:** January 22, 2003, 01:34:21 PM »

I have his book. It's interesting in that he tells of a story on 3rd person that you have to know involves he himself. Charlie makes no bones about back-shooting, drop-shooting, or shooting prisoners and thieves. He was a killer, plain and simple! But in his code, he was justified. Today, he'd probably have been brought up on charges. Simpler times, less rules, and clearly defined lines as to what was law and what was lawless. God bless him and his kind.

Dan C

Capt Hamp Cox · « **Reply #24 on:** January 23, 2003, 10:47:26 AM »

I have that one and also his "Texans, Guns & History". Used to read every article of his (and there were many) published in the gun mags of the '60s and '70s. He definitely wasn't hesitant to speak his mind.