Mil. Surp. Gun for hunting

[Varmit]

Hi, I'm 17 years old and my name's Charles.  I'm wanting to get a gun that I can take to the woods and not have to worry so much about it getting hurt, for this reason, I figured a military surplus rifle would be a good choice.  I'm wanting to get a gun that would be fairly light, accurate, and fast shooting.  I would like it to be powerful enough to take larger game(deer, coyotes, hogs, and possibly bear).  I would prefer this rifle be $100-150, or less.  It wouldn't have to be pretty, just in working condition.  I would probably end up doing some small things to it as I go on, maybe put a new stock on it and mount a scope, but nothing major.  It would also need to be somewhat of a common gun, I'll probably get it somewhere nearby, so the more common it is, the better chance I've got of finding one.  This will be more of a gun for me to carry and do stalk hunting with, I'm going to end up buying an old Jap. rifle from my grandpa and mount a scope on it for deer hunting in my stand, it's just a little on the heavy side for me to run around through the woods with all day.  Any ideas on what a good gun would be for my purposes would be appreciated.  Also, any suggestions on what some of ya'll may have done to your guns for a similar purpose or pics of them would be great.  Thanks.

[John Traveler]

Charles,

Welcome to the wonderful world of military surplus rifles!

For the purpose you describe any of the common "battle rifles" would be good for hunting: Mauser 98, Swedish Mausers, Lee-Enfields, Moisin-Nagant, or Japanese Arisaka.  A little careful shopping should get you a decent specimen in your price range.  Adding a scope mount, bolt hand mods, and scope can double your price.

Be aware though mil surp ammo is cheap and available, that commercial softpoint hunting ammunition can be pricey.  This may almost force you into handloading (ANOTHER hobby??) your own ammo.

My own mil-surp obsession started with 7mm Mausers and has been outta control ever since.  May I suggest that you pick something Mauser and sturdy (M98, M48, but not M93-96) in a popular caliber: 6.5x55, 7x57, 8x57, .30-06, .308,  .303, 7.62x54, etc.  That way, you can buy a couple hundred rounds of military ball to practice with, and have enough left over to start reloading your own.  The scope can come later, or by then you will be ready for another rifle!

[Castaway]

I think you've got a good idea about a quality rifle that's not expensive and also is reliable and failry accurate.  Possibly a M44 carbine would fit the bill.  It's the late war (WWII) varient of the 1891/03 Mosin Nagant and can be had virtually new in the box for less than $100 right now at most any gun show.  Your local gun shop can also pick one up for you without any problems for around that price.  It shoots a major caliber, 7.62 x 54 Rimmed and is comprable to a 308.  You can also get the big brother, but in a much longer configuration or even an Enfield but you'll have a bigger and heavier rifle to carry around.   Good luck and let us knwo what happens.

[PA-Joe]

Another very good choice for a starter rifle is a NEF or H&R single shot handi-rifle. They go for around $125.00 new. You may also want to consider getting a good scope, they cost arounf $150.00.

You didn't say what you were planning on hunting? A 7mm08 or 308 is good for deer, 22LR for small game and a 223 is good for varmint.

Surplus arms are good but also very heavy. the handi is light weight.

Have you taken your hunter safety training yet?

[Robert357]

Dear Varmit....
There is a lot of good advice on a hunting rifle, but I have to add a couple of comments.

First, you indicated that you are 17.  In most states, that means you are not allowed to "own" a firearm and your ability to pocess on is also very limited.  Actually, under federal law you have to be 18 to purchase a rifle or shotgun, so what you are asking about is technically illegal!

Because of that, you first need to talk to your parents and/or guardian about your desire to go hunting and an appropriate firearm for such an activity.  (All of this was missing in your post--unless of course this is somekind of sting operation?)

What I did with my two sons was take them at an early age through a state sponsored hunter safety course.  I would suggest you find a local gun range in your area and make sure you take such a course.  Then find an adult with whom you can go hunting and under whose supervision you will be in the field.  At that point you can discuss firearm choices with that person.  

Good Luck and enjoy hunting.  But don't violate either federal firearms laws or ask anyone to help you violtate those laws

[Jack Crevalle]

Your age not withstanding ( I'm going to assume you're going to fllow the wonderful advise of the poster concerning your age and hunter safety ), Milsurp weapons in your price range can indeed be found. But, in addition to the lack of legal hunting ammo someone already pointed out, you may find that finding hunting ammo locally for some Milsurps may be next to impossible. Mosin Nagants, Yugo and Chech Mausers are plentiful right now. Ask if local gun stores stock ammo for those.

There are probably hundreds of thousands of Mosin Nagants, and the M48 Mausers were produced after WWII. Some Mosin Nagants probably have poor or no original stocks. Please don't alter a collectable Milsurp rifle like your Grandfathers Japanese rifle may be. It may be very rare or may even be dangerous since many Jap rifles of inferior manufacture were made at the end of the war.

[1911crazy]

You can get a Russian Mosin in a M44($49) or M91/30($59) and for ammo you can use the Russian barnaul 204gr 7.62x54 that costs around $6 a box.  With this gun you can hunt anything in the lower 48 for sure.  If I was looking for my first hunting rifle this would be it.  Its the cheapest gamegetter setup out there right now.  There is an article in the "backwoods home magazine"  on the net about using cheap military rifles for game getters and you may want to read it.      BigBill

You may want to shoot it first before mounting a scope that you may not need they are pretty accurate.

[S.S.]

Hunting Ammo for a Mil-Surp is indeed a problem in some areas,
so I would first look in your area to see what calibers
are available then go from there. Your best bet would
be one of the Nagant models as ammo is quite prolific.
Any self respecting gun shop should have it.
Be Safe-Be Legal-Have fun

[Mikey]

Charles - you are 17 years old and not yet of the legal age in most states to purchase your own firearm or possibly hunt alone afield.

It borders on the possible 'illegal' for us to recommend firearms in this regard and I feel it necessary to agree with Robert357 about your age concerns.  It is also illegal, I believe, for us to recommend a firearm that would be subject to a 'straw purchase', in which an adult of legal age intentionally purchases a firearm for use by an individual not yet of legal age.

The information provided by you gives us little to go on regarding your state of residence and does not allow us to accurately determine the effect of the laws in your state.  

You present yourself well enough from a keyboard and appear familiar enough with the use of 'terminology' to cause me some concern as to whether you are really just 17 years old and if this is a legitimate post or an attempt at some form of BATF entrapment, which seems prevalent these days.

Please don't take this personally.  I am thankful for young people today becoming interested in the shooting sports and hunting and am gratefully appreciative when I encounter one who can present himself or herself as well and as thoughtfully as you have.  However, I will ask the Greybeard to review your post and questions and determine whether this thread should continue.

If the Greybeard feels your's is a legitimate post deserving of the types of responses the responsible posters to this forum most often provide those who present as you do, then you will have my full support and advice.

Please let's wait for Greybeard to decide on this one before we go any further.  Thanks for your patience.  Mikey.

[1911crazy]

If you can't find the ammo locally you can mailorder it from CheaperThanDirt.com or Sportsmansguide.com  both carry the Russian Barnaul 204gr soft point ammo and at sportsmansguide they have sales on it time to time too so sign up on thier website to get email specials.
                                                                           BigBill

[Robert357]

As a point of clarification, since I am in full paranoid mode, the last time I purchased ammo through the mail, I needed to fax a copy of my drivers license to the company with my purchase order.  I also had to sign a statement that I was of legal age.  Finally when the ammo arrived it was shipped in such a way that I had to sign for it (they couldn't send to PO Box or drop on front pourch) and prove that I was of legal age.

[Varmit]

Thanks for the advice all of you.  A lot of you mentioned things like my age, certain laws, and hunter's safety course, sorry I forgot to include that stuff.  Well, I know that it's illegal for me to purchase a rifle or shotgun until I'm 18, and a pistol until I'm 21.  I didn't say what state I live in because this is the internet and anyone can see what I post, but it is legal for me to hunt alone in my state.  I do turn 18 in a few months, and I'm just wanting to get some ideas on what types of Mil. Surp. rifles might be good for hunting.  I took my Hunter's Ed. course a few years ago and have been hunting with my grandpa since I could walk to the woods with him(although I didn't carry a gun until I was around 13).  As of now, I've only used a 12ga.(primarily an NEF single shot) for about all my hunting, and recently started using a 22LR(Marlin model 60).  Both are good guns, but this year I want to start using a rifle for deer hunting so I can have more of a range.  This being my first time using a high caliber rifle, my grandpa would have it no other way than under his supervision.  I had considered buying his Japanese WWII rifle off of him to deer hunt with, but was looking for something else that I wouldn't have to be so careful with.  I know he had used it for deer hunting for a few years, so I know it's safe, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be one for a collector(I'll have it checked out first just in case though) as it had some things broken on it and replaced with parts from other guns(the sights are what I can remember, but a few other things too) before he bought it and it's just not in that good of shape, looks-wise that is, although he does have another one like it, and if it still had it's bolt, it would make a nice collectors item, as would a couple other guns he owns.  Some of you also talked about ammunition.  I think now I have an idea of what to look for, and I may just end up using one of my grandpa's rifles to start off with(not a war rifle, something like a Winchester.30-06), although I do plan to look around for one to buy later on, when it's legal for me to do so, and was just wanting to get some ideas.  Thanks for the advice, and the concern too.  I'll make sure to let you know what I decide to do in a few months and hope I can get more advice along the way.  Thanks again.

[Robert357]

Varmit;

Glad you are so on top of things!  I am sorry if I got paranoid here.  
If you do want to use your Grandfathers Japanese rifle, you can ask him to order himself some loaded hunting ammo at Graff & sons on the internet.  They are now selling fully reloadable Japanese 6.5 mm & 7.7 mm ammo for about $20/ 20-round box.  That way he can try it out and zero it in for you and take you out with the complete set up.  

You might actually ask him to tell you what he knows about each of his firearms, their history, where and how he got them.  It could be eye opening and I am sure he would enjoy it.

As Big Bill has said, when you turn 18, the MN 44 or MN 38's make very handy big-game hunting rifles and are incredible deals.  I am not sure where you live, but I can't find them for the prices that Big Bill does, around here in Washington State they run about $79 on sale each and are surprisingly accurate with iron sights (once adjusted for the ammo you use).  The 7.62x54R russian round is very close to the 30-06 in power.  I have one of the longer MN 1891/30's and while not as accurate at my expensive Winchester Model 70 featherweight in 30-06, it is more than good enough for just about any hunting application of under 150 yards.

Have fun deer hunting this fall!

[1911crazy]

There are great deals on mosins everywhere!!!!!

Aim Surplus.com    (website)
M44 mosin $49.95
440rd can of 7.62x54 hungarian yellow tip ammo 1/$39.95   2/$35 each

Southern Ohio Gun  (SOG)   (this months flyer)
Russian mosin 91/30 $59.95
Russian mosin M38    $59.95
Russian mosin M38 laminated stk $79.95
Polish mosin    M44  $37
Russian mosin M44  $49  Very good condition
Russian mosin M44  $37  good condition cracked stk/worn bluing
Romanian mosin M44 $37  good condition cracked stk/worn bluing
Hungarian mosin M44  $37 good condition crackerd stk/worn bluing

Century arms   (monthly sale)

Russian Mosin M38  VG condition  $69.87
Russian Mosin M44  VG condition  $59.87

We just can't beat the mosin prices right now.   My point is get your C&R FFL and get these great prices on these awesome guns.            BigBill

Varmit;   You have a chance of a lifetime to learn now whats ahead of you so make a plan I think you need to be 21 for your C&R FFL then you will get affordable prices on these fun guns.  These are overlooked by many because their war weapons but I have to say with some of the new junk their pushing on us right now these old war horses are just as good or can out shoot some of them for sure.  There are mausers too which make great hunting rifles too.  Its nice just being able to own a piece of history and then take it out hunting/shooting too.  This is an affordable fun sport.  I got into it because I wanted a cheap rifle to take out in the pouring rain hunting and leave my expensive hunting rifles safe and dry. But I later found out that some of these are real treasures and there is a lot of history about them.  You have your foot in the door right now and you may want to come in and sit a spell and listen and learn about these overlooked by many surplus military guns you may find it very interesting and you may get attracted to collecting them in the near future too just like I did.  I wish I was your age when i found out about them too.  There are some great  knowledgable guys here who can guide you and help you out with any surplus military gun if you have any questions.  These guys sure have helped me too and there is so much to know and learn about too it starts with mosins and mausers for sure.  Feel free to ask or chime in anytime too!!!!!  And do some searches on the net too about them too there is lots of information/reading everywhere.  

You can't get a cheaper/better gamegetter than a surplus military gun it will put you in the woods hunting and meat on the table for way under $100 it just doesn't get any better than that.  While some might look beat and well used but don't let looks fool you because  they sure can still shoot good.

[GBO MGMT]

Please let's wait for Greybeard to decide on this one before we go any further. Thanks for your patience. Mikey.

I'm gonna leave it but lock it. Dunno about the technical legalities of all of this. Plenty of good advice already given as well as the needed warnings about being sure all is legal.

GB