quickdtoo, 25-06 with factory loads?

[Fred M]

Have you tried your 25-06 with factory loads yet. Don't hear much about the 25-06 and what makes them tick. Mine wants to stick around the 1-1/2" to 2" mark with anything I tried sofar but not anywhere near factory velocities. I tried the Barnes triple shock 100gr bullets which shoot real well in my other two 25's but to no avail. Fred M.

[quickdtoo]

Fred,  I posted a range report while you were on your way back from fishin :grin: ....I shot it last friday, had  1.60" and 1.90" ctc 3 shot groups by the time I finished gettin it zerod at 100yds. Only shot about 20 rounds thru it, mostly the Federals. The 1.60" was with the Federal 117gr Sierra Gameking BTSP and the 1.90" was with Rem 120gr CL PSP. To say the least, I was pretty happy with that since it was done on the first day out and I expect it may get better on a cooler day than I had, lots of mirage.  No stuck cases in either the '06 or .223, had one in the .243, my fault, forgot to wipe the chamber after cleaning.
 Thanks for checking in on me and for all the info you have shared. Tim

Here's the range report...
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=37121

[borg1]

quickdtoo,

was the range report for the .223 in the bull barrel configuration?  Did you bed the barrel with a rubber o-ring?  Fantastic groups IMHO.

[quickdtoo]

quickdtoo,

was the range report for the .223 in the bull barrel configuration?  Did you bed the barrel with a rubber o-ring?  Fantastic groups IMHO.

Thanks!  Yes, bull barrel Ultra Varmint. I tried the "O" ring and then the grommet, then shot it without either, shot the best without either. I have now replaced the forearm spacer with a different one to see if the accuracy will hold better as the barrel warms. The thread below is about the spacer.

Tim

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=37195

[Fred M]

Thanks  quickdtoo.
So your 25-06 does not do any better than mine, yesterday I tried the Barnes 100gr triple shock with a faster powder N150 which is about like H414.
This powder is much too fast and I had lots of stuck cases even though the velocity was not high specially with Moly coated bullets.

The only bullet with that powder was the 85gr Fowler three shots at 1-1/8" and no stuck cases. But that is not a game bullet. I noticed that after each shot the there was a gap perhaps one  or two thou where the barrel meets the breech indicating latch movement each thou of gap will increase the group by about a bit over one inch at 100 yards in a vertical direction. I had some vertical groups measuring 4-1/2".

I am still looking for a stronger latch spring, even though the rifle locks up snug and tight. This of course is an age old problem with under lock systems. The more power the more prevalent the up lift. Blaser has a lock up system for their break open rifles that could fire without the action. The lock up is in the barrels independent form the action. It is claimed the most accurate break open rifle ever build. It only costs $3500.
Fred M.

[quickdtoo]

Fred, I just found this today while looking for 45-70 loads. Maybe it will help you in your quest for 25-06 accuracy.
It's from  the 25-06 page at http://stevespages.com/table1.html

"The .25-06 was a real "bitch" to get to perform to my wishes!

It took me almost 6 years to finally find a load that would shoot a 5-shot group at 100-yards of less than 1/2-inch!

The Ruger 77, out of the box was miserable. Probably the worst rifle I had ever purchased. The trigger was way too heavy, at around 10 pounds, the creep and backlash was extremely excessive.

I did my usual "Ruger Trigger Tune-Up". After careful application of files, emery paper, polishing compound and Colgate toothpaste I finally managed to get the trigger down to around 2-1/2 pounds, with absolutely no creep and no backlash. A trigger this light and sensitive is not generally advisable on a hunting rifle, however, that is where I set all my rifles for working up a load. There is enough adjustment on the Ruger trigger to bring it up to around 4 pounds, which is much more safe for a big-bore rifle used for hunting purposes.

As usual I wanted to use Remington brass, Remington primers and the fantastic Sierra Hollow Point Boat Tail bullets. So I purchased 1,000 pieces of Remington Brass all of the same lot number, and 3,000 of the Sierra bullets, again of the same lot number. I loaded 150 cases with around 37 grains of IMR-3031, and used these loads to fireform the brass, and to lap and break-in the barrel.

After I fireform my cases I only neck size them just enough to firmly hold the bullet, which usually only resizes about half the neck.

Then I started selecting powders...first I loaded some IMR-3031, in 0.3 grain increments from 37.0 grains to 43.0 grains. Results were lousy!

Next powder selection was IMR-4064 from 39.0 grains to 45.0 grains. Results were lousy!

I broke open a canister of IMR-4350 and loaded from 44.0 grains to 51.0 grains. Results were not that great...

I then tried H-450 from 49.0 grains to 54.0 grains. Results were lousy!

H-380 (what the hell, I had a ton of it...) from 39.0 grains to 44.0 grains. Results sucked!

I went back to IMR powders, this time 4320, and loaded from 39.0 grains to 45.0 grains. Same-o, same-o!

Next in line was IMR 4831, from 43.0 grains to 53.0 grains. Disgusting!

With all these powders, and all these loads, the 5-shot groups ran from 3 inches to, would you believe, 7-1/2 inches!

I was beside myself! I figured I would try one more powder, H-4831, so I loaded from 44.5 grains to 55.0 grains. WHAT? All the groups with this powder, regardless of the load, ran between 2 and 2-1/2 inches! I was amazed!!

To see if this was a fluke, I ran those loads again, and received the same results. So it looked like H-4831 was the powder of choice.

My next step was to take the most accurate load and start playing with seating depth, varying .001 inch down to .01 inch under my measured "ideal" overall length. (The way I find "ideal" overall length is to carbon up a bullet, semi-firmly set it way out in the case, and then gently close the action of the rifle. I want the bullet just touching the rifling...no free-bore for me!

Well, it turned out that my "ideal" length was the most accurate, but I still only got groups of 2 inches at 100 yards...4 times larger than my requirements.

I had just finished loading some .257 Roberts for a friend, and he specified the Nosler 120 grain bullets for his loads, so I had a bunch of them laying around. I decided to see what would happen with them. Was I ever surprised when the group sizes dropped to 1-1/2 inches! (I'm not a Nosler fanatic...) But, a 25% improvement was worth noting.

Still not satisfied with a 1-1/2 inch, 5-shot group at 100 yards, I started working on the bedding of the Ruger. I did what I have done to every other Ruger 77 that I have ever owned. I sanded off that damn knob at the end of the forearm! And free-floated the entire barrel from the front of the receiver to the end of the forearm, enough to fit 3 thick business cards all the way down without touching metal and wood.

Groups dropped to 1-inch!

Still not satisfied, I decided that I would try different primers...first Remington large magnum rifle...groups flew all to hell!

Next Federal regular and magnum...a total disaster!

CCI weren't any better, regardless of regular or magnum.

I had a thousand or two of the Winchester WLR primers, and before I used the rifle for a crowbar I decided that I had tried everything else, so why not them?

HOT-DAMN!!! Groups dropped to 0.489 inches instantly! And they stayed there!

I loaded a bunch more, using the Nosler bullets, the Winchester primers, Remington brass, and 53.3 grains of H-4831. Groups continually ran between 0.357 and 0.489, for 5-shots at 200 yards...

I had found my load...but it wasn't with the Sierra bullet...AND I WANTED TO USE THAT SIERRA BULLET!

I loaded some more cases with the Winchester primers and again used H-4831 powder, loading in 0.1 grain increments from 52.3 to 54.3 grains...stuck the Sierra bullet on top.

At 52.5 grains the .25-06 started printing 5-shot, 200 yard groups of between .258 and .308 inches!

Being kinda partial to IMR-4350, I decided that I wanted to try that powder once again...this time with the free-floated barrel and the Winchester primers, and naturally the Sierra bullet. I found that 47.7 grains of IMR-4350 gave the exact same velocities, and accuracy as the H-4831 loads! I was impressed!

After several hunting trips, and many, many one-shot kills, that load with the Sierra bullet is my favorite .25-06 load. It took 6 years to find it, but I have been using it ever since. As a matter of fact, I made my longest 1-shot kill several years ago on an antelope. The distance was 704 yards...measured by me and two witnesses, FIVE times!

As usual, once I find a load that I like, that is where I stay...generally for life, since I have several thousand bullets, tens-of-thousands of primers, and cases of powder all of the same lot number...and 1000 cases will last a long time...

I don't know how any of these loads will work in your .25-06...but think they are worth a try if you are not totally satisfied with what you are now shooting."

[Fred M]

quickdtoo.
Thanks for the write up. If you followed my Holy Grail of the 25-06 Ultra you would see that the 25-06 is no different than any other caliber. It is known to be a very accurate performer. Although it holds too much powder for the very best accuray, but that goes for all over bore cartridges.

The same loads I used in the Ultra with 100gr Hornady and the 85gr Fowler Match bullets produced 1/4" and 3/8" three shot groups in my #1 Ruger in 25-06 without much adoo.

Not so with the H&R Ultra, the multitude of various tweaks finally produced some not too bad groups, but a long way from great like the #1 Ruger. Of course the Ruger is three times the price.

The H&R tolerances in mashine work are about as bad as the worst GI rifles. Even hand made 303's by Hindus with stone age tools shot as goood as the 25-06 Ultra.

Yes there is a lot you can do with hand loads but with a poor chamber and a sloppy barrel and latch lock up there is a limit.

Read my final write up on stuck cases and accuracy of the 25-06 Ultra.
I will buy a box of 100gr Rem PSP CL Factory and try three rounds.
This is as far as I am prepaired to go with this rifle, since I am going to give it to a young friend. At least it is now adequate accurate for deer and Antelope hunting. Fred M.

[quickdtoo]

Geez Fred,  I was hoping this link might give you something that would help, Steve only worked on his magic load for 6 yrs, but he wasn't workin with a handi rifle..... :cry:   Maybe the Rem 100gr pspcl will work.... :wink:

[MOPLS]

I'm fighting the same problem with my 25-06 Ultra, large group sizes no matter what I try.  I just swapped out the scope, but haven't had a chance to shoot it yet.  Yes, I tried Steve's magic formula to no avail.  I had an excellent Ruger 77V heavy barrel that shot very well until someone helped themselves to it while I wasn't home.  I think I may have to give up on this project and get another barrel if I can decide on whether to get a 22 Hornet or a 223.

Good Luck,

MOPLS

[Fred M]

MOPLS.
From what I learned on this forum, I would go with the 223. The small base cartridge will produce a lot less disturbances then its larger brothers.

The 223 is very accurate in most handi's and the ammo is easy to come by. Hardly worth to hand load it unless you already have all the tools.
Fred M.