Author Topic: Any word on results from the Smallbore Nationals yet?  (Read 1289 times)

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Offline bob259

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nationals yet?
« on: July 13, 2004, 03:40:52 PM »
Has anyone got the run down from the NRA Smallbore Nationals yet?
Bob[/b] :grin:

Offline GeoNLR

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Well then who are you rooting for?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2004, 10:17:59 AM »
I'm pulling for Cathy and Troy...

Offline ajj

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2004, 11:08:03 AM »
My sketchy info is that Augustin Sanchez won both smallbore  championships. Understand he shot 39 with the hunter the first day and turned the one chicken that didn't fall. My source shot next to an oustanding lady master from California named Teresa May and reports that she finished "well up in the standings." Sorry I don't know more. Chime in folks.

Offline shootingpaul

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2004, 03:55:50 PM »
AJJ!
You are quite a teaser....................!!!!!!!!!!
s-paul
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Offline Hornetx60

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2004, 04:16:09 PM »
Just got home, what a drive! 3900 miles by the time I got home....
Augustin Sanchez did win both guns in Small Bore.  110 in Standard and  I think a 107 in Hunter. He is a great shooter and always the gentleman, even at such a young age.  Bill R

Offline shootingpaul

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2004, 04:25:06 PM »
hope to see more info soon   :-(   ???
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Offline School Belle

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2004, 05:28:03 PM »
I just got back from my first national match in Raton. It wasn't exactly Camp Perry, but I had a lot of fun.
Quote
A strong body makes a strong mind. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind.

Offline bob259

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2004, 02:47:43 AM »
Quote from: Hornetx60
Just got home, what a drive! 3900 miles by the time I got home....
Augustin Sanchez did win both guns in Small Bore.  110 in Standard and  I think a 107 in Hunter. He is a great shooter and always the gentleman, even at such a young age.  Bill R


Hey Bill... I hope that was your two way mileage  :) .

How was the weather for the matches, wish we could have made it this year, but things didn't work out. :(
Bob[/b] :grin:

Offline Hornetx60

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2004, 03:26:57 AM »
Yup that was the round trip milage.

The weather was actually better than what they say they normally have. The winds where light most of the time.  The mirage wasn't that bad.  The range was extremely bright  targets did glare at you. From what I have heard of their normal conditions we couldn't have had much better conditions. .....................The bugs were terrible, but quickly taken care of with some spray. The match ran slow.
No Picnic for the shooters
No Doors Prizes
The Whittington center cared  only about one thing cutting costs to make a buck for them. They didn't care about the shooters.

Offline GeoNLR

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The real
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2004, 04:43:13 AM »
Quote from: Hornetx60
Yup that was the round trip milage.

The weather was actually better than what they say they normally have. The winds where light most of the time.  The mirage wasn't that bad.  The range was extremely bright  targets did glare at you. From what I have heard of their normal conditions we couldn't have had much better conditions. .....................The bugs were terrible, but quickly taken care of with some spray. The match ran slow.
No Picnic for the shooters
No Doors Prizes
The Whittington center cared  only about one thing cutting costs to make a buck for them. They didn't care about the shooters.



The real Nationals ...Held in LA in June every year...Have none of that non-sense...We missed you there this year Bill. Next year, make plans to come to Winnie and you will be glad you did!

Geo

Offline genphideaux

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2004, 06:53:41 AM »
Bill,

For once I do agree with GeoNLR, you missed one of the best blowouts at Winnie, forget the rest come to the best next year. They treat you so many ways you gotta like one of um. And we can continue the party from Jacksonville.

Dawg

Offline Hornetx60

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2004, 07:33:18 AM »
GeoNLR and Genphideax, Yup I already plan on coming to both Jacksonville and Winnsboro, as long also my own regional up here  and the Lapua Classic OOPS I mean the Sierra Classic....Guess it just depends on how good of quality bullet you want  :)  

I wish more of you southern guys would have shown up out at Raton. Even if we don't win we sure can have fun at it. I did ok though, I got 6th Master in Hunter and justed missed making Master Aggr by 1 target in Heavy gun. So I didn't do to bad for only shootin rifle for a little over a year.  Bill R

Offline B_Koes

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2004, 08:09:37 AM »
You're hardly a newbie at them silhouette thingys Bill!  Congrats on the results.

I'm going to take my first pops at some NRA Smallbore targets this weekend albeit an unsanctioned event.  I was going to buy a 452 Silhouette on your suggestion, but I came across some good deals on a couple of Finnfire Hunters so I went from no rifles to two in short order.  I think this rifle stuff is a lot more challenging than shooting a pistol offhand.  Both are loads of fun though.

Offline Hornetx60

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2004, 08:23:30 AM »
B Koes Good to see you are seeing the light. I hate to see Pistol Silh go the way it has but it won't be to many more years. I had a lot of fun at it for a long time.
  Rifle Silhouette is much more of a challenge, and the competition in every class level is better especially in Master class. There are so many great shooters all across the country.  I may have been at the top in Pistol Silh but I started right at the bottom when I switched to Rifle, it is another beast all together. I really struggled at first and I still do at times.
There are a lot of shooters that use Finnfires. they are a good less expensive option to getting into the sport. A lot of shooters modify the heck out of them to make custom hunters out of them. Marvin Pearson does excellent work. He is out in Washington state.  The 452 Silh is also a real good option and it is almost identical to the Anschutz 1700 series.  Good Luck to you.

Offline K2

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2004, 09:33:55 AM »
Hi Bill

How does the Whittington event compare with the IHMSA International in terms of participation and things going on besides the match?  What is good at each and what could be improved that might help improve the participation numbers?  How are the participation numbers.  You are one of the few that I know of that has been to both.  Sounds like you are doing well in the rifle game,  good luck to you for the rest of this year and in the years to come  :D  
Quote from: Hornetx60
Yup that was the round trip milage.

The weather was actually better than what they say they normally have. The winds where light most of the time.  The mirage wasn't that bad.  The range was extremely bright  targets did glare at you. From what I have heard of their normal conditions we couldn't have had much better conditions. .....................The bugs were terrible, but quickly taken care of with some spray. The match ran slow.
No Picnic for the shooters
No Doors Prizes
The Whittington center cared  only about one thing cutting costs to make a buck for them. They didn't care about the shooters.

Offline Hornetx60

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2004, 01:41:14 PM »
Akihmsa, I think the participation level is higher in rifle at every level, Monthly, State,  Regional, and National Matches.  This years Small Bore match they fired I believe 182 Heavy guns and a few less Hunters.  Last year there was 236 Heavy guns fired in Small Bore. That match was held in Ridgway ,PA. Location is everything. But to be fair the match should be moved east and west to allow shooters  to make it to the matches when ranges are available to handle it properly.  
    The NRA has 3 junior divisions Sub Junior, Intermediate Junior, and Junior and they are awarded besides what they win with in the open categories, They also have a womens , a Senior and a super Senior awards. all of these are awarded within each gun.  NRA Rifle silh really is a family oriented  sport they keep all age groups involved.
Truthfully to many of IHMSA's categories are far to easy to shoot 40x40's in. so where is the challenge. I mean hell I was a standing shooter and I put together a couple of freestyle guns just to go to the internationals, and I shot 2 freestyle 80x80's and even won a reg 3 UAS BB in my last year. So how hard can it be if a standing shooter can ie down and start punching out 40's and 80's in the UAS categories. Hell I even had the first UAS 1/2 size 40 in PA.    DO ya see what I am trying to show you. The problem  is how are you ever going to get rid of or make the categories harder now that the shooters you have left are used to it. You won't the few you have left will walk away. 11 years ago when I started in IHMSA PA had 17 active clubs. No you have 4 or 5.  You want my honest  answer ...sell your pistols and switch to rifle silhouette before you get stuck with specialty guns that nobody wants.   Sorry

Offline genphideaux

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2004, 06:40:14 AM »
Bill,

Don't hold back tell us how you really feel. glad to hear you want to come and associate with us reprabates.

Dawg

Offline Hornetx60

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« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2004, 09:27:15 AM »
Dawg, He (AKihmsa) asked, So I calls dem as I sees dem.   and you are the King reprobate.

Offline K2

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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2004, 06:03:38 AM »
Hi Bill

Thanks for the honest answers  :wink:  Fortunately I never did invest in the specialty pistols so it isn't an issue for me, I saw (and still do) lots of old specialty guns at gun shows that are worth very little in calibers that most folks have never heard of like a 300 IHMSA or a 7IHMSA rimmed, & Super Mag, etc.  They can't hardly give them away.    

On ease of the game freestyle again we are in agreement for the most part.  I have never missed a BB target UAS and that is why I only shot it 5 times.  Heck I knew my score would be a 40x40 before I ever pulled the trigger.  I have finally got to 30x40 in plain old Standing (iron sights) in practice and that is plenty challanging for sure.  Good thing is that it doesn't require a specialty set up just lots of practice and attention to sight alignment and trigger control.  

I also agree that location has a lot to do with turn out. Put a match in the middle of the most shooters and your turn out will be higher than if you hold the match in Outer Mongolia.  The match should rotate so all have an opertunity to participate but the turn out will rise and fall depending on the distance from the shooters homes.  

I like to shoot jsut about anything (even sling shots and archery) so will never be at a loss for things to do.  I am working on carving out a beginners and low budget game for families who will enjoy silhouette cause that is where my heart is at.  This will be a good feeder organization for the serious games.   If it works then maybe in a few years you will see 300 guns in your games and that would be a good thing  :D  Our club is doing the same with Biathlon.  (skiing and shooting) by having snowshoe biathlon using plinker autoloaders, offering a way into the game for very little $.  Not many will stick with it of course but if it gets one of two a year that would never have given biathlon a look it will be a good thing.  This is just another reactive steel game and like all of them it is fun.  All sports are getting to pricey for many families to be involved in even little league baseball and football are expensive for someone to just try out.

No more controversy for me, just shootin to enjoy it, and I do  :-D

Again good luck to you and may all those Rams fall!
Quote from: Hornetx60
Akihmsa, I think the participation level is higher in rifle at every level, Monthly, State,  Regional, and National Matches.  This years Small Bore match they fired I believe 182 Heavy guns and a few less Hunters.  Last year there was 236 Heavy guns fired in Small Bore. That match was held in Ridgway ,PA. Location is everything. But to be fair the match should be moved east and west to allow shooters  to make it to the matches when ranges are available to handle it properly.  
    The NRA has 3 junior divisions Sub Junior, Intermediate Junior, and Junior and they are awarded besides what they win with in the open categories, They also have a womens , a Senior and a super Senior awards. all of these are awarded within each gun.  NRA Rifle silh really is a family oriented  sport they keep all age groups involved.
Truthfully to many of IHMSA's categories are far to easy to shoot 40x40's in. so where is the challenge. I mean hell I was a standing shooter and I put together a couple of freestyle guns just to go to the internationals, and I shot 2 freestyle 80x80's and even won a reg 3 UAS BB in my last year. So how hard can it be if a standing shooter can ie down and start punching out 40's and 80's in the UAS categories. Hell I even had the first UAS 1/2 size 40 in PA.    DO ya see what I am trying to show you. The problem  is how are you ever going to get rid of or make the categories harder now that the shooters you have left are used to it. You won't the few you have left will walk away. 11 years ago when I started in IHMSA PA had 17 active clubs. No you have 4 or 5.  You want my honest  answer ...sell your pistols and switch to rifle silhouette before you get stuck with specialty guns that nobody wants.   Sorry

Offline yankee

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2004, 09:04:31 AM »
In Response to Hornetx60
I agree conditions were pretty good. A few afternoon breezes.  What bugs?  
I do disagree with you about the Whittington Center only looking for the dollar.  Look at what has been done there.  Ranges made for different kinds of shooting sports.  Range upgrades such as the firing line cover at the small bore silhouette range.  We used to stand out in the sun. We were at the rimfire silhouette range for three days.  That is six days in the past three years.  I don't know what the line cover costs but it would be hard to justify building it for a six day use in three years.  Something done, maybe for the shooters.   More firing points at the highpower sil range.  Cabins, competitor housing and more cabins.  These sure beat driving from town in the morning and the price isn't out of line.  All this isn't done just for people to look at.   It is done for the shooters.   There are something like 200 different competitions scheduled for this year.  There were three going on while you were there for rimfire.  I would say they are trying to get the most bangs for the buck and from the way I look at it they are doing a pretty good job.  
Door prizes-- yea they are nice.  Just ask David M. at Winnsboro how much time he spends doing his great job of getting things for his match.  If the  Silhouette Department were to do this the cost of that person would be passed on to the competitor in higher score book costs or some kind of match costs.  If the Whittington Center did this that persons pay would mean less range development or higher daily range fees.  
We were lucky that Sierra and Hodgdon were there and donated some things. Otherwise the companies have to be asked and if no one asks --well nothing.   Maybe someone would volunteer to do the begging.
Yankee

Offline MarkW

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Any word on results from the Smallbore Nati
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2004, 11:59:46 AM »
Hornetx60,

I agree with Yankee on this one.  I attended the highpower matches and the Whittington Center did a fine job running those matches.  If all you guaged the match on is free food and prizes from vendors then you are attending the match for all the wrong reasons.  Vendors send prizes to help market their products but they don't have to send anything at all.   So insulting one of the only manufacturers (Sierra) who sent prizes to the highpower match really doesn't help you at all.  By the way, where were all the free Lapua bullets??  Sierra also helps to sponsor your local regional highpower match and even sends a company representative to help out.  Let me see, thats sending free bullets to winners, door prizes, samples, literature, and the salary and lodging of an employee for the match.  That's quite a bit of support just for a "regional".  Let's see Lapua match that.  So before you complain about prizes and free lunches, what did you donate to give away??  Enough of my ranting, but complaining about this kind of stuff is what keeps companies, new shooters, and ranges from participating and helping the sport to grow.

MarkW

Offline Hornetx60

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« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2004, 12:43:25 PM »
TO mark w and yankee  OK since it seems like we are going to turn this into a personal attack I'll tell you what I base my views on. I have run matches and been a state director  in IHMSA. I help out at any match I go to and often stay late to assist match directors.  Am I asking for a pat on the back  HELL NO. I do it because I was there I know what it is like, I ran a match for 4 years.  MY comparisons of what I saw at Raton where based upon what I have seen at Ridgway at their Nationals last year and in Jacksonville this year.    Ridgway has a budget that must be less than 10 % of the Whittington center but they take a lot of profit from that match and give it back to the shooters in the picnics that the host for them. They do it because they care about the shooters. They also go out and purchase door prizes to be given away. They even do that at their regional matches.
  Yankee you think that Raton put that roof on the firing line just for Nationals. Who are you kidding. you know damned well they hold monthly matches there. and even if they didn't  how many people are going to keep showing up to shoot and bake in the sun. Uncovered firing lines are a thing of the past.  
 Markw don't be so quick to run to Sierra's aid .....they aren't as squeaky clean as you might think.  and by the way all of what they give away is written off to advertising anyway. So they spend 1500 once or twice a year oh my....Hell I spend a lot more than that each year in ammo and reloading and not one bullet through any of my guns will ever again be a sierra bullet. Do I have an axe to grind with sierra yup sure do! They gave me to many reasons and the IHMSA 2002 Internationals was the final straw. To many lies
 and Mark in the past 13 years I have brought many new shooters into silhouette and donated a large amount of time to the sport, and I'm not talking about while shooting it. So before you start spouting off next time know who it is first.  I am the last person that wants any harm to befall this sport. But I am not afraid to speak up when I see things wrong.