Hard Bonded Bullets too Much ?

[Buckfever]

I haven't seen much about the Premium bullets being over kill or maybe the wrong selection for slower velocity rifles.  For example does a Barnes or a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw really improve the killing power of a < 2400 fps rifle.  Wouldn't the conventional bullet or a Partition use the energy better to fully expand the bullet?  Don't most of these hard bullets come in to play with Magnums?  It would seem that a non-bonded Partition would still work nicely.  So haw many critters has a 7+57 killed without premium bullets and does it matter?  

I can see special needs with a Magnum out at 300yds or real close but for a slower non- magnum do you ever need anything more than a Partition or a good conventioal bullet?   These are just questions I figure you guys have some real experience to call on, I don't.  Thanks  Buckfever

[huntsman]

Certainly game has and will continue to die from fatal injuries inflicted by both partition-style and standard soft-point bullets. Do we NEED another bullet style? Probably not. But I don't think that is the issue. I think the real queston is: Will another bullet style perform better in certain applications? I think the answer to that is far from settled, but there is definitely a niche there that can be filled.

From what I gather, it seems the bonded bullets are trying to establish a compromise between the expensive A-frame/partition bullets and the inexpensive cold-core jacketed soft points. I am loading some Hot-Cor bullets for the first time this year in 6.5x55 at @ 2500 fps muzzle velocity, so maybe I will get some field data soon on an actual kill to supplement this discussion. Terminal performance at 100 yards in my clay/sand target backstop has indicated that the jackets indeed stay put and expansion is very close to standard soft-points. My guess is that the bullets will expand well even at modest velocities, but will also hold together better than standard soft-points when hitting bone and tough cartilage.

The bonded bullets appear to be a nice compromise, at least in theory. They are priced very close to standard soft-points, but seem to provide a measure of bullet integrity not found in the soft-points, even at modest velocities in non-magnum calibers. The partition bullets still have the upper hand for maximum bullet integrity when that is critical (large and dangerous game), but IMO the bonded bullets are going to cover a lot of ground between there and standard soft points.

[Castaway]

Any bullet is a compromise between penetration and expansion.  The Nosler Partition is still, even as old as it is, the standard by which all others are judged.  Some go deeper, some expand more, but for deer or even black bear, the Partition is still king.  Part of the Partition's reputation is not that it retains 100% of its mass, if fact, it typically looses about 35% that turns into little missels inside the critter

[jhalcott]

I hate to get into these types of discussions! It's like talking about your buddies wifes cooking! Every thing depends on what YOU demand from a bullet.  "Normal"bullets will do the job99 per cent of the time.A"premium" bullet may be needed for that once in a life time animal on the last day of a trip that won't be repeated for YEARS.Especially if the animal is 400+ yards away! Wouldn't YOU rather have a premium bullet in the gun for a trophy African Eland or a Kodiak bear? 10 grand in a hunt and worrying about cheap ammo does not go together in MY mind.
   BUT, hunting on the back fourty for a rag horn 2 point white tail buck might entail using some cheapo "onsale" ammo from the local sports shop. This is only my opinion, jh

[Iowegan]

I totally agree with jhalcott, huntsman, and Castaway. I think we have become victims of the gun magazines. Every time a new bullet goes on the market, the gun rags make it sound like you can't kill a deer without one.  I won't deny that bullet engineers have improved designs and in some cases, changes were necessary. The new short mags develop considerably more chamber pressure than before. Also, velocities are increasing in the new cartridges. The old bullet designs may not be adequate for the new tech cartridges.

As far as terminal ballistics, the biggest problem I see is a hunter will try to use the same gun for everything from prairie dogs to moose. If you choose the right gun for the intended game, the terminal ballistics will take care of themselves. Over-kill is just as bad as under-kill.

Shot placement is another problem area. A gut-shot deer will run just as far from a 30-30 wound as it will from a 300 Short Mag wound.  If hunters would do a little research and find the "kill zone", they would be a lot more sucessful.  They also need to know the effective range of their guns.  Those 350 yard shots you see in a gun rag are not what the average hunter is going to encounter.  Along with that goes proper optics.  Though I wouldn't hesitate to use a premium hunting bullet, I think conventional bullets are blamed on a bad shot when the other more important factors were ignored.

[jhalcott]

Go look in those glossy gun magazines and tell me that "MOA" group doesn't look a LOT bigger than 1 MOA! Yes ,I thank the gun companies for making new guns and better bullets,but I don't believe I HAVE to take a shot at an animal 1/4 mile away if I can get closer.
    H**L,where I hunt ,that deer will be long gone when I get to the gut pile! Even if it does NOT take a step after the hit! I've even seen deer stolen from the roof of a car while the the real owner was sitting in a restaurant.(Maine) Back to the topic,Premium bullets do serve a purpose.Some guns are very finicky Some shooters need the latest thing out, but confidence in  ones equipment is the most important item you take hunting. I knew a guy who single loaded his model 94 30-30 with nosler PT ammo. He never shot past 50-60 yards,but "KNEW THAT NOSLER 'D DO IT"

[Questor]

Bullets matter so much that any technological advances are welcome. Time will tell if they're any good, but that's just the nature of the improvement process.  I think it would be great to have an improvement on the partition concept.

[onesonek]

I believe, the biggest reason fot the advent of premiums was, and is mag. rifle velocity. Some want to hunt at longer ranges when needed, hence started the "magum craze" of the 60's. Problems came, because most game was still being shot at rather short yardages. Hence, alot of bullet failures. In turn which brought about the need for complex bullet constuctions.
From what I have seen, most bullet perform (expand) well, down to 1800-2000 fps range ( even the prems.). And from what I have wittnesed, and heard, most conventioal bullet failures occur, when terminal velocities are above 25-2600 fps. ( with maybe too light bullet to begin with)
 I don't shoot magnum velocity rounds much ( not at big game). But I still like the assurance that comes with premium bullets. I'm all for penetration, when given the option.

[New Hampshire]

Im going with Iowegan and onesonek here.  We have become a victum of magazines and "super Mag burner" egos.  I recently read an interesting article about bulllets.  It seems that the most accurate bullets tend to be flat based bullets.  Apparently it is extremly hard to consistantly make perfect boattail bullets, though the manufacturers currently are doing a good job at it.  But the biggest advantage is downrange performance from the spitzer Boat Tail bullets, a must for long range shooting.  Of course like onesonek commentd is that surprise surpries you are still seeing a majority of game up close and personal.  So now you are getting erratic bullet performance at close ranges because of the speed involved.  So now we get bonded bullets.  Im not saying new ideas should be explored.  Experimentation is what makes better bullets.  I just dont like the gun rags hyping up these new innovations and TELLING me I NEED them.  Its different strokes for different folks.  My Ford Ranger XLT is a great all around use vehicle for me and would probably do EVERYONE good too.  But not everyone does and uses their vehicles like I do.  Ya see where Im going here?  Decide what YOU want your bullet to do within the parameters you set and decide that way......not because "reloader-X" from Huntershootdeer Magazine tells you you need to.
Brian M.