Mauser 38

[Kenchaff]

I would like to trick out my recently purchased Turkish Mauser 38 to use for long range target shooting.  Im looking for direction on items such as stock, scope, muzzel break etc.  Could you point me in the right direction?  
Thanks

[gunnut69]

That's too broad a question to answer. We'll need to know more. What type target shooting are you wanting to get into. If just informal then the changes can be almost unlimited in scope. If you have a specific disipline in mind there may be rules that will need to be considered in selecting alterations or additions to the rifle. Some matches such as military rifle matches allow almost no majors alterations to the rifle's original configuration.. Tells us what you are wanting to do...

[Kenchaff]

Im not interested in competition shooting.  Only for my own enjoyment.  I have seen some pretty special rifles off the shelf that are capable of close group patterns at 400-500 yds.  I have a local shooting site that will give me about 250 yds.  I would like to build this rifle to use for this area and on a budget.  Any suggestions?

[gunnut69]

There is almost an unlimited range of things you can do to make a fun to shoot target rifle.  Lets assume that since it's a target rifle weight is not critical. Bull barrels add dramatically to the weight but the weight should not matter and it will eleiminate the need for a brake. They are noisy and not found on most target rifle(there are exceptions).  I doubt know your budget though so perhaps we need to determine that before we get too involved.  Barrels run from $100 or a bit less to well over $500. Simce this is mainly a fun shooter, perhaps leaving the military barrel alone is possible. Try it out first to see how well it performs before making a decision to rebarrel.  Scope mounts and bolt work to allow it to clear a scope are first. Then a replacement trigger. Shilen, Jewel, and Canjar are among the best triggers made but prices are steep. Timney and Bold among others are more reasonably priced and usually sufficient for most work.  I much prefer the Timney if cost is a real concern. remember the trigger is very important. It provides the link between the rifle and the shooter.  If a rebarrel is desired a caliber selection is in order. There are a number of excellant choices. Perhaps something with a smaller bore for a bit less recoil. Perhaps something in the .264-.284 inch range like a 260Rem or a 7mm-08 or even the grand old 7x57 mauser.  You could also drop down the 224 thry 243 bores but some long range effectivness may be lost although to 250 yards it will have little effect.  Recoil would be greatly reduced with most of the 243''s bores or smaller.  How much are we thinking of spending? Any chance we might use the rifle for P-dogs or coyotes or perhaps even deer somewhere in the future??  Give us another hint!! I always kinda like the daydreaming kinda answers..

[Kenchaff]

I will be shooting this weekend and will let you know how it shoots without modification.  It is possible that their will be shooting at live targets, but thats not what Im building this for.  I would like to keep the barrel if it shoots well, but I don't mind radical modifications either.  If I keep the barrel I would like to install a muzzle brake.  Change the trigger, install a scope and change the stock.  Maybe install a bipod.

[savageT]

I will be shooting this weekend and will let you know how it shoots without modification.  It is possible that their will be shooting at live targets, but thats not what Im building this for.  I would like to keep the barrel if it shoots well, but I don't mind radical modifications either.  If I keep the barrel I would like to install a muzzle brake.  Change the trigger, install a scope and change the stock.  Maybe install a bipod.

Kenchaff,
I would warn you that many range members and officials do not appreciate muzzle breaks.  You will NOT win any pats on the back from bi-standers who must endour the blast from your M38 ThunderBuster!!!  Try it out as soon as you can as is, with some milsurp loads and perhaps some commercial as well, and see how the recoil is first off.
Lastly, remember that most milsurps haven't been throughly cleaned in many years and the bore may need allot of TLC before you get good results.  If you don't have an electronic bore cleaner, think about making one and get to work.  What is a "Live Target"?
Jim

[gunnut69]

SavageT - I'm guessing he's talking about the deer, coyotes and P-dogs I mentioned.  Clean that bore really well and it may need a re-crown. I've seen a lot of old military rifles over the years and the crowns have been atrosious on nearly all.  I guess it's the bayonet!  Get the thing cleaned up and we'll recut the crown.  That should help it shoot as good as it can.  But as was said try it as is first. If the bore isn't pitted it may surprise you. Cleaning the years of gunk off will be the real trick..  I've even resorted to using gasoline as a solvent back in the days when the SKS's were cheap.  Had a bunch to clean and the gas was cheap.  Used it outdoors only but it still gave me the jitters.... We finally found that a friend with a powder coating shop would let us use his steam cleaner.. That was really the way to go.  After the grease was off a cleaning (normal) was done and the metal was oiled to prevent rust. That steam cleaner really worked on the greasey stuff though..

[Kenchaff]

Well, I fired the Mauser 38 this weekend and it seemed to fire quite well.  I was shooting at 250yds and could consistently hit a full sized trash can, (2'x4').  I had a limited qty. of ammo, (60 rounds), so I only got a limited feel of its performance.  As for the bore, it is in good shape.  Both inside and out.  This was one of the reasons I was drawn to the rifle in the first place.  Is a Turkish Mauser K-Kale the same as a Mauser 98?  Does it use the same barrel as the 98?  Or is it entirely different?  

Anyway, I would like to pursue tricking it out and see if I can modify it on a reasonable budget.

Also for SavageT, "live targets" means varmint hunting but my real interest is target shooting.

[gunnut69]

I don't know if the Turks built their own copy of the 98. They had an on going contract with mauser to produce rifles for them and some say that contract took mauser through some tough years.  Consult a book to interpret the markings on the acton..  Most I've seen were make by mauser and marked with prescribe designations in cyrillic.  The Turkish rifles com in a huge number of variations. The 98 variants were even sometimes equipped with front rings sized for small ring barrel shanks. This was to allow the Turkish repair facilities to use the huge parts supplies they had purchased for their small rings rifles to support the M98 variants as well.  You probably should shoot the rifle at a paper target to record the capabilities before starting the change process. The first thing I would change is the sighting arrangements.  Of course these old eyes don't work too well anymore..  Have a smith drill and tap for scope mounts and bend the bolt handle to clear a scope.  You will also need to install a safety that allows for scope clearance. The safety is a do it yourself project but the drilling and tapping and bolt bending require special tools and talents most d-i-y's won't have.  Also while it's at the smith have him recut the crown on the barrel..  The trigger while 2 stage is not that bad on most mausers and is something else a D-I-Y 're can do themselves if so inclined...  It's then with the scope in place that we can really get a better picture of what the barrel is capable of as far as accuracy goes.  How the rifle shoots at this point determines where to go.. Bullet dispersion on the target, the pattern of bullet strikes, can help us decide if the stock is causing a problem or if the barrel is too worn.

[bufflernickl]

Kenc,

GN has given you some really good advice. I'd like to chime in with a few other comments.

I would highly recommend that you stick with 8 X 57 if your rifle will shoot well after you get the sighting organized. Many of the Turks I've seen appear to have had armory restocks and reblueing, and the one I bought appears to have a *new* barrel. I've never seen a mil bbl *so* clean and sharp. I haven't fired mine (bullets coming in today) yet, but will do so this weekend. If you need info about making an electronic bore cleaner, check this site: Well,  drat it, I didn't bookmark it. I'll find it and revert to you later if you need this.

Trigger... good advice about aftermarket (Midway has good triggers on sale right now.. check their websie), but there is a lot that can be done to the Mauser trigger if you're not inclined to spend the money. You can silver solder an extension to the front of the trigger and install a screw and locknut to control sear engagement. However, IMPORTANT WARNING, getting the sear engagement below 5 lbs makes a very dangerous field rifle. It is safe for a bench rifle, and you can get a very good letoff down to abt. 3 lbs. A much better thing to do is to install that setcsrew and adjust it to retain a bit of hte double-stage pull. Now, have a competent gunsmith or gunnut to remove metal from the sear until you get the letoff you desire. Did that make sense? You can safely go down to 3 lbsd for a field rifle with this system, not that I recommend that low a trigger pull for a hunting rifle. Depends on how you are hunting. If you're in locations where all hunting is done form a box stand, then you might as well be on a range :-)

Stock: If you have an eye and talent for woodworking, a very nice looking rifle can be made with the mil stock. If you have one of those nice Turkish walnut restocks, it'd be a shame not to use it. If you'd like some pix of well-done sporterizations, send me a PM. They make a really nice full-stock rifle or carbine. As close as Im likely to ever come to having a Mannlicher rifle :-) A bit of glass bedding at the front lug and barrel cylinder andback at the rear tang, along with free-floating the bbl., will usually give you a bit of improvement in group sizes. Pillar bedding is more complicated, but still easy for the DIY gunnut, and will help accuracy, esp with the heavier cartridges such as the 8mm. I'd leave these mods until you veryify that your bbl will shoot, look for groups of no more than 1 1/2" at 100 yds w/factory ammo, assuming that you have good sighting equip and can hold pretty well. If it will do that, then it is worth keeping the bbl and working on various accurizing methods.

Back to the 8X57. That is a superb cartridge, fully capable of taking any game on the NA continent (or SA, for that matter). Midway has the superb Remington 185 gr CoreLokt PSP for about $14.100. You can't shoot cheaper than that. Also pick up a set of Lee collet dies if you order from Midway (or if you get them locally). These dies are cheap and work a treat. My brother and I have mostly converted solely to these dies, must have 20 sets.

Rebarrelling: If you do, consider carefully your caliber choice. Many think that 6.5mm is the ideal, and it is fast becoming the hot number in 600 & 1000 yd shooting. Buyllet choice is superb, starting with varmint bullets and going to 165 gr RN. Again, it'll do for anything in our hemisphere, though it isn't quite up to use as a stopping rifle for wounded grizzlies. Be sure to shoot your grizzlies from far enough away that you can get in a couple of extra shots before he gets to you :-) All seriousness aside, it is fully competent to take elk and moose. 6.5-284 is the hot number if you like wildcats. Nothing wrong with the 6.5X55 Swede cartridge, or the well -respected but uncommon 6.5 X 57. For these two,if you don't mind wildcats, it costs the same to have the improved ersions chambered and they both offer 150-200 fps greater velocity to the handloader.

Oh, yes, there were at least tow differnt bbl threads, and maybe three (I've heard of another but haven't seen one), and one is exactly like the Rem 700 series. That means that, if you have one of those, there is a steady supply of pulled barrels available. I see 700 bbls at gunshows going for $50-$75. If you live where long-range shooting is done, contact the shooters about who has rebarrelled lately.

Best of luck, and let us know of your project. Oh, yes, Start a journal in a spiral-ring notebook or some such. Record every mod you make and the result, all the cartridge, bullet, and reloading data, along with actual target groups pasted into the pages. You will be amazed how useful this will be.

Cheers/buffler