Styrofoam Peanuts as case fillers

[Graycg]

Before I even go down this road, I've used kapok, dacron and super grex as case fillers before....but what about the good old styrofoam peanut?  Has anyone ever played around with them as case fillers?  Looking at those bad boys makes me think that they would be perfect in my 32-40 and 45-70....Whattcha think?

regards,
 graycg

[Nobade]

Don't do it. I've already tried that, they leave a nasty melted mess in your barrel, kill accuracy, and I suspect it would be easy to ring a chamber with them since they would allow the powder to migrate around the edges in some instances. It's just not worth it. I'll stick to Cream 'o' wheat or Ballistic Products shot buffer, thank you.

[John Y Cannuck]

I agree with the above. I'm a quilt batt (Dacron) man myself

[JBMauser]

The voice of experience!  All I was going to say is, I have seen styrofoam burn and melt and I would rather stay with someting that did not melt when it burned and produce such plastic ooze.  I use kapok but I would use TP before any plastic.  I understand the gretz stuff does not break down easily.  JB

[shootrj]

Fairly new on this forum,I hang out mostly on the Marlin owners  forum.At the speed I type at there's only so many forums I can visit and talk on too.My question is this ,when do you use filler? Can you use it with smokeless?I know dacron is good as is cream of wheat.Might you be causing high pressures by filling up case capacity?I've reloaded for years  but I have steered clear of some subjects but have recently been dabbling in the lost arts such as paperpatching, fillers,under cast bullet wads, with the idea of using them in search of solutions to certain problems.I just want to get as much info as possible as my interest is in mostly smokeless powder and there can be serious consequences from mixing the two technologies without knowing what you can and can't do Shootrj2003

[jhalcott]

Fillers are used to keep the powder in the rear of the case.Smokeless powder takes up much less room in the old black powder cases. Incconsistent ignition occurs when the powder moves to the front of the case or lies along the bottom. There have been stories of "ringing chambers " from the use of fillers. I have always used dacron when I thought a filler was needed. Fillers CAN change pressures of the load. My grand dad would load his gun and tilt the muzzle skyward and tap the stock.Then he slowly lowered the gun to the firing position.He claimed that this oriented the powder near the primer.!? I just use about a half grain of dacron tamped onto the powder with a pencil eraser end.Guess I'm to lazy to keep lifting the old gun!

[shootrj]

Jhalcott'thanks for the response to my post that answered one of my questions another one is how do you prevent the danger of ringing a chamber if this is a real threat?

[jhalcott]

I've NEVER "rung" a chamber(tap wood) but I understand that IF you have a gap in the powder /bullet area ,you CAN have a barrel obstruction. That is what causes the ringing of the chamber.I've heard it called  "jugging" the chamber also. Usually the powder charge ignites and starts to drive the filler toward the bullet.The filler stops at the base of the bullet,then pressures build and the chamber is expanded before the bullet is pushed into the bore.Kapok was one of the offending fillers years ago.Now adays people are using dacron polyester(pillow stuffing)(quilt batting) and having far less problems. Remember though, that half grain of filler could be jarred out of place by rough handling of the loaded rounds. IT MUST HOLD THE POWDER AGAINST THE PRIMER! You can see how well they stay in place by loading a round and deliberately abusing it(drop it on the floor from shoulder height). Then shake it to see if you can hear the powder moving.After a couple tries,PULL the bullet carefully and see if it has moved. DO NOT FIRE THIS ROUND,you might wind up with worse than a "ringed chamber".Reload it .

[JBMauser]

It is my contention that the filler keeping the powder stacked up against the primer will yield more consistant ignition.  It is a fact that it also raises pressures.  I also contend that as soon as the primer is lit that all of the powder and the filler is pushed to the base of the bullet.  The filler is then compressed to the thickness of a piece of card stock.  I know this because a primer alone with no powder has enough force to send a bullet a few inches down the bore. The filler if fluff is not going to hold the powder anywhere.  Ringing is a difficult item to pin down.  fillers do raise pressure and pressure is the cause of ringing.  Other than that.  the argument on cause and effect still goes on.  I use fillers.  I do not shoot high $$ guns.  you must select your own level of risk.  JB

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen,

I use fillers virtually all the time for shooting the old BP cases with smokeless powder: Thousands and thousands of rounds.

The prime filler for me is T/P, preferablely Charmin, chosen for not for its softness but for its maximum "loft".

A fellow has to insert the T/P filler into each case carefully such that it will fill the void, preform its function but not become, as it were, a projectile within the case itself. The cause of chamber rings is when the filler or wad or whatever is "fired" down the case, hits the stationary bullet base and an instantaneous pressure wave expands the steel of the barrel. Thus the filler has to be placed and remain in place right at the base of the bullet. You must really fill the case with a compressed amount of filler such as is  done when using cereal fillers so that no mixing can happen or make sure the light fluffy fillers are pushed into the case by the bullet as it is seated so that their bases are ALWAYS in contact with the filler material.

Good luck,
Forrest

[R.M.]

OK, now you guys are getting me worried.
I just loaded some 45-70's for a friend to use in his BFR at our indoor range. The range has a velocity
limit of 900f/s. I know, throwing 400 grain bullets downrange at 900f/s is a lot different than a 9mm at
the same speed. Anyway, in one of my manuals I came up with a load of 405gr cast bullet, 10gr Unique
with a dacron filler. What I did was put a card wad over the powder, then added some dacron.
We haven't fired these yet. Do you think the card wad is going to raise the pressures that much in a light
load such as this?

TIA
R.M.

[jhalcott]

What is the purpose of the wad? I have shot this load with out the wad and had great results .The mold was a gas check design and checks were used.This was a fun load for plinking and getting youngsters and ladies interested in shooting.

[R.M.]

The wad is holding the powder up against the primer  very positively.  I trust it over the dacron.

[FAsmus]

R.M.,

"RM" says: OK, now you guys are getting me worried. I just loaded some 45-70's for a friend to use in his BFR at our indoor range. What I did was put a card wad over the powder, then added some dacron.

We haven't fired these yet. Do you think the card wad is going to raise the pressures that much in a light load such as this?

Forrest: You have loaded something which might be unsafe. You see, the 10 grains Unique under the card wad makes the card wad a "bullet" within the case. Even though the case is partially filled with dacron it could shoot the wad fast enough to hit the base of the staionairy bullet hard enough to cause problems.

It kind of depends on how thick (massive) the card wad is. If you've loaded something like 0.012 thick wads to hold the powder in place that would be a good deal safer than, say, having a 0.050 card wad in there.

In future don't bother with the wads. Just Dacron or my T/P filler is more than enough to shoot that type of load indoors, I've done it quite a bit.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[R.M.]

Well, problem solved. That's what they made pullers for.
The wad was .050" and I was just uncomfortable enough that I said how long does it take to pull 20
rounds and remove the wads.

Thanks Guys
R.M.

[FAsmus]

R.M.,

Well, problem solved. That's what they made pullers for.
The wad was .050" and I was just uncomfortable enough that I said how long does it take to pull 20 rounds and remove the wads.

Forrest: Cool!

Good morning

[50 Calshtr]

FASmus
   For what it's worth I use a piece of TP about the size of my thumb nail over the powder followed by enough uncompressed dacron to reach the case mouth.  When the bullet is seated it compresses the dacron slightly which in turn keeps the TP aginst the powder and prevents the powder from migrateing into the dacron.  I usually find the tufts of dacron, unburnt and uncompressed about 5-10 feet from the muzzle after firing so I know they are not fire formed into a more solid mass.

[FAsmus]

50 Calshtr,

50 Cal says:   For what it's worth I use a piece of TP about the size of my thumb nail over the powder followed by..

Forrest: That sounds like a very good procedure. Is this in something like the 50/70 Government or 50/90 SS?

I have used the light 0.010 over-powder wad to separate powder and cerial fillers but it really didn't seem to make any difference so I'm no longer doing it.

I do protect the bullet bases from either powder or cerial impact damage by use of the 0.050 card wad just under the bullet.

Good morning,
Forrest

[50 Calshtr]

FAsmus
   I'm using this system in 500 BPE and 577 BPE for light nitro loads and a 45-120, but there's certainly no reason not to do the same in any load with low density that might require a filler.  I have shied away from the cereal fillers simply because I was not compfortable with the added bulk, not due to any bad experiences.  I probably use a larger wad of dacron than most, but that pressed against the very light TP wad keeps the powder from "wandering" around the case.  I don't use a wad at the base of the bullet but it certainly sounds reasonable, I think in my case the extra dacron protects the base to some degree, maybe I'll try to recover a bullet from the backstop and check.  
Best