Author Topic: bullet styles...are they the same ? (Read 423 times)

gasr55 · « **on:** August 03, 2004, 08:01:33 AM »

Im sure this is a stupid question to most of you and maybe to all of you but i am fairly new to reloading and need to know the answer to this question.
This question is about bullet style and different brands of bullets, is there any set standards as far as bullet size between different manufacturers? I would like to try different brands of bullets but load recipies limit me to only a few different brands.My problem is this if i would use a different bullet brand even if it is the correct weight and style called for in the load recipe will it cause a problem by changing brands by maybe being a little longer or shorter and causing a difference in pressure when i use the OAL listed in the load recipe?
Thanks loads for any help you can give me.

New Hampshire · « **Reply #1 on:** August 03, 2004, 08:09:05 AM »

Unfortunately (for us the reloader, that is,) yes no two bullets are alike. Many manufacturers use different kinds/grades of copper for the jackets, they all design their bullet shapes differently (some may come close....but close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.) So that means lengths will differ, even boat tail design can be different.
Sorry. But dont fret, most premium and semi-premium bullets are quite well made nowadays. So you really can probably get away playing around with powders more than bullets.
Brian M.

Questor · « **Reply #2 on:** August 03, 2004, 08:53:14 AM »

If you're using conventional bullets, like Speer Hot Cor and and Remington Power Points, the load data is compatible. But you need to work up from starting charges. There are exceptions. For example, one manufacturer's bullet may have a greater bearing surface on the barrel than the same weight bullet made by another manufacturer. Jacket thickness and hardness varies also. These things all affect pressure.

With premium bullets, like Barnes X bullets, you really should be using the load data developed for those specific bullets.

My own practice is to select bullets made by big name manufacturers, buy their loading manual, and use their load data. This is the practice I recommend.

Alternatively, you can buy the volume of Loadbooks USA for your particular caliber, and then use that data because Loadbooks is a summary of the major loading manuals.

longwinters · « **Reply #3 on:** August 03, 2004, 11:47:42 AM »

I have found out a few things in the last 1 1/2 years reloading. Generally speaking a powder that works well in a rifle (at least for me) tends to work well with different bullets (albeit grains of powder may differ). Also very much to my surprise some completely different bullets will shoot to same point of aim. For instance in my .308 a 150 gn Sierra spitzer will shoot identical point of aim as a 165 gn Sierra hollow point boat tail. Both are GameKings but powder does differ a couple of grains. This was a great find for me!! I don't know what I will do with it . . . but it was a great find.

Long

grizz · « **Reply #4 on:** August 03, 2004, 01:34:14 PM »

IMO load data is just a referance.. Its not the law but its determined to be safe.. There is alot of times I use the speer manual but I very rarly shoot speer bullets.. For instance in my 243 I shoot a 87gr Vmax being pushed with 46gr. of H4350 Hornady only lists 43.4gr of H4350 as a MAX load for the 87Vmax... So why did I go to 46 then??? Well simple most manuals today have lighter loads I find Hornady being the lightest.. Speer list 46gr of H4350 for a 85gr bullet there lightest load is 42gr with the 85gr. bullet... In my experiance that 2gr weight differnce is NOTHING... But I wouldnt go much more then a 2-3gr weight difference.. By no means am I tellin you to load 46gr in your 243 and you will be fine.. I worked up to that and find it perfectly safe in my gun.. There is absolutly no signs of pressure at all.. As a matter of fact I am on my 7th firing of the same brass using that same load and I DONT anneal my brass either... As far as OAL again thats just a refernace and should fit any gun thats made.. I honestly dont even look at OAL in the manual because it means nothing to me.. In my single shots I load into the lands and for my others I load to mag length unless I can reach the lands and still fit the mag.. If you think about it 100 grain bullet is a 100grain bullet doesnt matter who made it it still weigh's 100grains.. Now thats not to say they all fly the same or they will all take the same load.. In other words 1 bullet may reach pressure signs faster then the other because of jacket material.. But starting out at min or close to min load and work up from there you will be safe... Again this is my opinion and hasnt did me wrong in the 18 or so years that I have been reloading.. You will also hear alot of guys saying that if your velocity is higher then what the book is telling you it could be unsafe.. Well again the book is only a referance if your bbl is longer or shorter then whats in the book velocity it is gonna be differnet... For instance say your shooting a 87gr bullet in the 243 and you only have the hornady manual.. It lists a velocity of 3100fps for their max load of H4350 which is 43.4grs... Now their book says they have a 24" bbl and you have a 28" bbl .. With your 28" bbl you may reach that speed at say 41grs.. Does that mean stop because your hiting the speeds of their max load with a lighter charge?? Not at all!!!! Remember you have a longer bbl so it should be faster.. So all I am really saying is stay close to the books and you will be fine and remember they are only refrences and not the golden rule!

grizz

The Shrink · « **Reply #5 on:** August 04, 2004, 12:44:11 AM »

Variables, variables, variables. There are more in this game than we can reasonably control, and, fortunately, most of them count very little. The average hunter can ignore them.

Thats why all the manuals, and all the magazines, routinely tall us to back off 10% when you change any component. Even changing primers can affect pressure. When you are pushing close to max loads anyway any little change can or might push you over the edge. If your loads tend around the middle of the list it's less of an issue, you are probably 10% below max anyway.

So just remember when you change out bullet brands or designs back off 10% and work back up. Do this every time you make a change and you will be safe and happy. Think of all the extra shooting it involves! :grin:

Wayne the Shrink

There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

Mac11700 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 04, 2004, 05:44:38 AM »

All good advice...on the flip side of what Grizz told you...if you have a 18" barrell and are getting velocities for a 24" barrell ...your most likely over max for yor gun...anytime you change ANY component...reduce your charge by 10% and start working up to be safe.....

Mac

Catfish · « **Reply #7 on:** August 04, 2004, 06:38:13 AM »

If you start with the suggested starting load for bullets of the same weight and similar construction you will have not trouble useing data from other manufactures. You CANNOT use data for lead core bullets with solid copper bullets like the Barns X. Always watch for signs of presure as you work-up your loads. I`ve been reloading since the 1960`s and play around alot with wildcat`s where there no loading manuals or published data for some of the powders I use. I extraplate from similar size case, bore size and bullet weight then reduce by 15 to 20 % of what I think is max. and start working up from there. The smaller the case the smaller the increases as you steep up your powder charges. With the .17 AH you can go from a safe load to blowing up a gun. in 1/2 a grain. of powder. In the .30-06 it would take you 3 or 4 grains of powder to raise presure the same amount. The first sign of presue is usually flattening of the primers. This can also becaused by over sized primer pockets, but if you back off here you`ll never get into trouble. If your getting cases that stick in the chamber and are hard to extract you are dangeriously close to blowing up your gun and need to back off quite abit.

gasr55 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2004, 04:05:51 AM »

To all of you who have replied and to all who still do thank you very much for the valuable information this is one of the reasons that i like reloading is the fact that you guys possess a wealth of information and are very willing to help others.Thanks again.