Author Topic: 25 ACP Primer (Read 2475 times)

rjo3491 · « **on:** August 03, 2004, 09:53:08 AM »

Hi:

Decided to give this modification a try and note that in order to in order to get the Encore's hammer to pull back, I do have to shut the breech much more firmly than I did with the 209's. When I do this, all works fine. I did ask Cecil about this and he indicated that it would not harm the Encore in any way, and, that the modification is designed to fit very firmly. I would tend to agree, but would like to know if anyone disagrees.

Thanks!!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 03, 2004, 10:40:44 AM »

Quote from: rjo3491

Hi:

Decided to give this modification a try and note that in order to in order to get the Encore's hammer to pull back, I do have to shut the breech much more firmly than I did with the 209's. When I do this, all works fine. I did ask Cecil about this and he indicated that it would not harm the Encore in any way, and, that the modification is designed to fit very firmly. I would tend to agree, but would like to know if anyone disagrees.

Thanks!!

I have to do the same thing with both of my Encores, with the 25ACP conversion. I also had to do it with the 22 Hornet conversion. I also called Cecil and was told the same thing. I do wish it was a little easier to close, but it is not a big deal once you are use to it. During a hunting situation I will make sure the trigger will come back before I set out into the woods or get ready in my stand. I would hate to have to open and them slam the gun closed while a deer was there. I guess that would be the only negative I would have to say about the conversion.

Nic_58 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 03, 2004, 04:11:28 PM »

I ordered the Encore/Omega .25 ACP conversion recently and upon receiving it, I found after installing it that the breech wouldn't close. I called Cecil and he told me that I had received the wrong breechplug. They have a separate breechplug for the Omega that is a few thousanths of an inch shorter than the Encore plug. He sent me out the right plug and after receiving it, I sent the other one back and now everything's OK. The breech closes stiffer and tighter than with the 209 plug but doesn't seem to be any big deal. It's just a firm, positive lockup. I can't wait to get out and try it out, looks like it's going to be a while though!

Anyone thinking of ordering the .25 ACP conversion for an Omega or an Encore needs to state which particular gun they are ordering for as they aren't the same breechplug.

rjo3491 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 04, 2004, 04:31:01 AM »

I played with this a bit more last night in the back yard (probably gave the neighbors a good scare - oh well). It seems once you close the breech the first time [hard enough] the brass bends a bit and thereafter it's pretty much like a 209. My guess is after reloading the shells a few times the process should work pretty smoothly.

Thanks all for your input!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 05, 2004, 03:51:44 PM »

Let us know how it works with your accuracy and if you get a crud ring.

AndyHass · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2004, 05:33:48 AM »

I just fitted my conversion plug last night, and indeed it closes VERY tightly (an Omega). Once the brass has been through it once though it loosens up, but still not to 209-loosness. If this doesn't 100% seal the breech, nothing will!!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 06, 2004, 09:08:30 AM »

Quote from: AndyHass

I just fitted my conversion plug last night, and indeed it closes VERY tightly (an Omega). Once the brass has been through it once though it loosens up, but still not to 209-loosness. If this doesn't 100% seal the breech, nothing will!!

AndyHass, let use know how it turns out. (Range Report)

Thomas Price · « **Reply #7 on:** August 09, 2004, 09:17:01 AM »

Can anyone tell me the difference between the 25ACP and the 22 Hornet, besides not having to trim the 25ACP do the shoot the same or does anyone feel that one is better than the other. I have thought about going to one of these conversions for my Encore 50. About the time that I was ready to purchase the 22 Hornet plug along came the 25ACP. I have a 22 Hornet Contender that I reload for so the brass, primming or deprimming and even the trimming aren't a problem. I would just like to know if anyone thinks that one or the other is better. My Encore gets about 2" groups @ 100 yrds now. I am using 100 grains of FFg Goex Black Powder and 300 grain Hornady SST's. I may be foolish to be trying to improve on something thats not too bad as it is. But I am always trying to improve if I can.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 09, 2004, 11:23:14 AM »

Quote from: Thomas Price

Can anyone tell me the difference between the 25ACP and the 22 Hornet, besides not having to trim the 25ACP do the shoot the same or does anyone feel that one is better than the other. I have thought about going to one of these conversions for my Encore 50. About the time that I was ready to purchase the 22 Hornet plug along came the 25ACP. I have a 22 Hornet Contender that I reload for so the brass, primming or deprimming and even the trimming aren't a problem. I would just like to know if anyone thinks that one or the other is better. My Encore gets about 2" groups @ 100 yrds now. I am using 100 grains of FFg Goex Black Powder and 300 grain Hornady SST's. I may be foolish to be trying to improve on something thats not too bad as it is. But I am always trying to improve if I can.

They are basically the same. The 25ACP just does not need to be trimmed. Because it uses the same small pistol or small rifle primer. If you don't mind doing the trimming, the 22 hornet will work for you.

Bullseye · « **Reply #9 on:** August 09, 2004, 05:54:57 PM »

My 25 ACP conversion showed up today. I did however forget one very important thing. I do not have a 25 ACP shell holder for my primer tool. Hopefully someplace in town will have one.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 09, 2004, 06:07:31 PM »

Quote from: Bullseye

My 25 ACP conversion showed up today. I did however forget one very important thing. I do not have a 25 ACP shell holder for my primer tool. Hopefully someplace in town will have one.

Let us know how it works for you. :grin:

wild willy · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2004, 03:31:25 PM »

Don't forget to clean your fired .22 hornet or .25 acp cases when you clean your gun

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 10, 2004, 05:21:37 PM »

Quote from: wild willy

Don't forget to clean your fired .22 hornet or .25 acp cases when you clean your gun

I let my 25ACP brass soak in solvent and then air dry and tumble. I then prime them.

rjo3491 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 11, 2004, 12:55:14 AM »

I planned on cleaning the brass. What, "solvent" are you soaking them in? Also, how many reloads do you think you can get out of a set?

Thanks!!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 11, 2004, 01:57:49 AM »

Quote from: rjo3491

I planned on cleaning the brass. What, "solvent" are you soaking them in? Also, how many reloads do you think you can get out of a set?

Thanks!!

I am using #13 Plus Bore Cleaner. I think you will be able to reload them more times regular reloading. The case is not being worked like if you were sizing and firing bullets out of them.

smoky · « **Reply #15 on:** August 11, 2004, 04:47:58 AM »

Can you tell me what size shell holder the lee auto prime uses for the .25 ACP?

Thanks,

Smoky

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 11, 2004, 05:11:52 AM »

Quote from: smoky

Can you tell me what size shell holder the lee auto prime uses for the .25 ACP?

Thanks,

Smoky

It is a number 15 shell holder of the lee auto prime tool.

smoky · « **Reply #17 on:** August 11, 2004, 06:14:34 AM »

Redhawk 1,

Thanks for the info on the shell holder. Can anyone tell me what is your preferred method of decapping the spent .25 auto casings. I will have to buy some type of decapper, and I don't have a preference so any help would be appreciated.

Smoky

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 11, 2004, 06:27:35 AM »

Quote from: smoky

Redhawk 1,

Thanks for the info on the shell holder. Can anyone tell me what is your preferred method of decapping the spent .25 auto casings. I will have to buy some type of decapper, and I don't have a preference so any help would be appreciated.

Smoky

I use the universal decapper from RCBS. I got a shell holder for my press and just knock out the spent primers. If you don't want to spend the money, just get a small pin punch the will fit the flash hole and knock them out that way. I just prefer the universal decapper.

TomD · « **Reply #19 on:** August 12, 2004, 04:06:23 AM »

This discussion and the other associated threads on this topic are great!! As is the information on the Precision web site.

I just called & ordered the .25ACP Breech Plug and some brass from Precision for my Encore. At lunch time I'll head to my local gun shop & get the Lee Universal Depriming/Decapping Tool, Lee Universal Shell holder #15 and the Lee Auto Prime Shell Holder #15.

I really think that this upgrade has merit. I use 295gr PowerBelts, which in my barrel don't have a lot of resistance when loading, so I do beleive that the 209 primer could be moving the load & bullet before ignition.

I wonder if this will also help the 1st shot flier issue?

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 12, 2004, 04:47:42 AM »

I always run a clean dry patch down the barrel before loading up. I like to get all the lube from the barrel that is there from cleaning and lubing. IMO I think lube in the barrel affects accuracy. but that is just my opinion.

You have to post you results here when you get it.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #21 on:** August 15, 2004, 05:36:08 PM »

Just received mine. The brass that came with it was nearly impossible to close the breech. I sorted through a pile of .25ACP that I had and found some a few thousands shorter and they work great. If there is a major problem with closing it seems that trimming the brass would fix it. I plan to pick the length that works for me and trim all my brass to that length. I guess if you reload and have all the stuff to do this it isn't a big problem. I actually reloaded .25ACP ammo for a while. There was no mention of a different plug for the Encore and Omega. Mine just said T/C breech plug; although the paper that came with it referenced the CVA and Winchester Plug?

As the testing starts I will send in some updates. I used loose triple 7 last year and could not seat a second Power Belt

bullet with a mallet. If this gets rid of the crud ring I will be very happy. I also was using the flat breechplug that came with my Omega which I think is really for the Pellets not loose powder. I notice that the .25ACP plug has the concave recess in the nose like the early Encore plugs.

Bullseye · « **Reply #22 on:** August 15, 2004, 06:01:55 PM »

I got mine last week also. The paper in it also referenced the CVA/Winchester. I have not installed it yet so I am not sure about the tightness of closing the breech.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 15, 2004, 06:04:33 PM »

Keith Lewis, Welcome

I currently have 2 of the 25ACP plugs and just love them. I have a 50 cal Encore pistol barrel coming and I ordered my third 25ACP breech plug. I think you will be surprised at the performance of the 25ACP plug. It works well with loose or pellets in triple7. Please let us know how it works for you. I use the CCI400 small rifle primers in mine.

Also I found my guns a little hard to lock up also. I had to close my gun a little harder than usual, but not much. I had some 25ACP left over and I just pulled the bullets and used them. I just make sure the hammer will go back after I close the gun.

Keep us posted.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 15, 2004, 06:07:55 PM »

Quote from: Bullseye

I got mine last week also. The paper in it also referenced the CVA/Winchester. I have not installed it yet so I am not sure about the tightness of closing the breech.

Bullseye, you need to get that thing in there and try it out. I want to see if everyone is having the same success as I have had. :grin: Also let us know how your lock up is and if it is tight also.

smoky · « **Reply #25 on:** August 15, 2004, 06:29:14 PM »

Redhawk1,

My .25ACP breech plug will be here this week.

My new stainless 209 x 50 barrel printed a three shot group with 220 Dead Centers over 100 grains 777 fffg loose at 3 inches @ 100 yds and a three shot group of 195 Dead Center Duplex over 100 grains of 777 fffg loose at 1.25 inches @ 100 yds., both groups shot with 209 primers.

I just had to go ahead and try it with the 209's while I was waiting for the coversion.

Smoky

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 15, 2004, 06:37:13 PM »

Quote from: smoky

Redhawk1,

My .25ACP breech plug will be here this week.

My new stainless 209 x 50 barrel printed a three shot group with 220 Dead Centers over 100 grains 777 fffg loose at 3 inches @ 100 yds and a three shot group of 195 Dead Center Duplex over 100 grains of 777 fffg loose at 1.25 inches @ 100 yds., both groups shot with 209 primers.

I just had to go ahead and try it with the 209's while I was waiting for the coversion.

Smoky

Keep us posted. Also how was the crud ring situation with your 209's? Also let us know if there is a difference once you put in the 2ACP conversion.
I still want to try out the dead centers also. But I don't know if my accuracy can get much better than the power belts for my 50 cal. :grin:

smoky · « **Reply #27 on:** August 16, 2004, 03:08:07 AM »

The crud ring is pretty bad. One particular spit patched cleaning stroke was extremely hard to pull from the bottom of the breech end. It is also evident in my Knight Wolverine using #11 caps, although not as prevalent.

I saw a TV commercial for the New T/C Sabots (Shockwaves, I believe) on the Outdoor Channel last night. They were "slinging mud" on the power belts, quoting 2 foot groups at 200 yards for the PB's vs. 2 inch groups for the Shockwaves. Interesting marketing approach.

Also, I notice most 777 shooters report using ffg vs. fffg. I wonder if the crud ring is more or less prevalent in one or the other.

Smoky

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #28 on:** August 19, 2004, 09:44:46 AM »

OK here is the brief range experience with the new .25ACP breechplug. This was with my stainless Omega .50 which was delivered with a flat face breechplug and previous experience with loose 777 and the shotgun primers resulted in one shot only and second bullet could not be seated with a mallet. I installed the .25ACP breechplug and loaded Winchester standard rifle primers as I had some. Rifle was sighted at 100yards with 100gr. Pyrodex last year and 348gr Powerbelt bullets. I shot 80gr. 777 with the same bullet and the first shot from clean bore was about 1 inch low and close to center. Second bullet loaded fine without swab in between and printed 2 inches from initial bullet, third bullet loaded with a little more effort but seated at full depth and shot within 1 inch of second bullet, fourth bullet came about 3/16 from full depth and I stopped as I was not sure it was on the powder. All three shots were in less than a 2 inch circle. This was a rushed test as it was starting to rain and my powder was not premeasured so the last shot was possibly powder with some rain drops. When cleaning there was a crud ring at the front of the powder load area which came out with two passes of a bronze brush. There was not noticable blowback from the primers. Brass of .608 to .612 overall lenght loads and shoots OK. I suspect with time and more careful measuring the 80gr 777 with 348gr Powerbelt would print cloverleaf patterns as it would with Pyrodex and swab between shots last year. This rifle has not had more than 20 shots through it so it is far from broken in but seems to not care much and prints pretty fair patterns. I have a scope on the rifle as I am 66years old and my eyes won't work with open sights any more. I am Lucky that Arizona allows scopes and modern muzzleloaders. The rifle primer sure sounds weak when you shoot it alone to clear the rifle compared to what the shotgun primers sound like. Better data when I have more time. This looks like my answer to how I can get a second shot off when hunting without having to swab between shots. This years elk hunt will be more comfortable for me knowing I can finally get a follow up shot if I need it.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #29 on:** August 19, 2004, 01:50:39 PM »

Addition to above long message: I used T/C teflon tape on the Breechplug and wrapped it over the front of the mating surface at the edges. I coated the tape with a small amount of shotgun choke anti-seize. Plug came out very easy.