ARE YOU AFRAID TO EXPERIMENT???????

[Bogmaster]

I just got done rereading a post by Thumper,at the end he mentioned experimenting on the line.
 Getting some trappers to experiment a bit,can be like pulling teeth.In several of my TPC articles,I have stressed this point.It is also a point I bring up when doing demos---don'be afraid to try something new or out of the ordinary.
 One of my lines I have used during many demonstrations,is"don't take everything you read or hear as gospel--unless I write it or I say it"Now the last part of that statement is said tongue in cheek.I am just trying to stress the need to try new things.
 For years,I kept reading and hearing that the castor mound set for beaver --was just a set for in the spring---oh how wrong those people were.
 I also read article after article,year after year---do not set a stoploss trap without a delay pin,if you do ,a muskrat or minks foot will be thrown from the trap ,before the jaws can close.Now I religiously followed this rule for decades.No longer-----several thousand rats and many mink ,have told me---you dont need a stoploss delay pin.
 Now these are just a couple of instances where experimentation has changed the way I trap.

  Now its Your turn----how has experimentation helped you,or changed the way you trap???
 Tom

[vttrapper]

Too many to mention them all but heres a few.

Modifying k9 traps. Years back I ran stock traps and had plenty of pullouts, pulled out jaws, dogs ripped out etc. Now with fully modifying traps I have none of the above. Took a while and the first mods i tryed were poor, but now all seems well.

Lures and baits

When i first started, alot of writers stressed gland lures, urines and commercial baits(usually their own) was the best way to catch k9s. Well , after a while I started making my own bait/lure and whaqt do you know, I found certain lures or baits would catch just as well or better than the old method. Again, alot of trial and plenty of error but i learned through experimenting.

frank

[Appleknocker]

I have experimented a lot with different type of sets, lures and baits.  The most important thing I learned from all this experimenting is you will never know how effective sets, lures and baits are if you are in the wrong location.   Trapping and buying a house are similar in that location, location, location are the most important considerations. Now I experiment in two different ways.  One I experiment with sets, lures and baits when I know my location is right;  two I experiment with locations using proven sets, lures or baits.   Here is something I experimented with and had success for two unique situations.  I have a spot where beaver come on shore and dig the hillside up to chew on and eat some small roots.  (I have never seen this in any other location.) The bank slopes very little for a long ways out in the water making a drowning set not practical. Where the beaver come on shore is very noticable, and I set a 330 flat on the bottom where the water will just cover it.  When ever it is sprung, there is a beaver in it.  I also have a location where a beaver lodge is built on a multiple tree blow down.  This is on the shore of a marrow lake with a very fast drop of the lake bottom.  In this mass of tree roots there are some openings ranging in size from 10 inches to 18 inches.  I lay 330s flat over these holes (sometimes needing to put sticks accross side of hole to support the 330) and catch the smaller beaver.  I wire 330s to poles and put on the bottom in 12 feet of water between the lodge and the feed bed and catch the larger beaver.  When I first found this lodge I new there were at least 5 beaver using it and could not catch a one until I started experiments with sets and came up with these two.  Worked for me.

[Jacktheknife]

Experimenting on the line,  an interesting subject.  
Again Mr. Bog has come up with a good one.  And that reminds me...
Groan... here he goes again...
20 years ago when I learned to snare, I had no one to learn from, dynamite snares and snaring by Tom Krouse was my mentor,                 but I was having no luck.
Till one period in the season, I crossed the creek on a concrete pipe, looked at one of my snares set on a high trail at the top of  the steep bank of the creek branch, and saw that it had been knocked down.
Hmmm!   interesting!   I reset the snare,  all I knew was for coon, 8'' loop,
Some guiding vegetation or sticks.
I looked hard at the tracks, at what was there to indicate what had happened.
It has been 20 years and I don't remember all the details, but I moved the loop right and left,  higher and lower,  used guiding sticks in different ways. Every night or two the same Coon would pass and knock the snare down and go on his or her way.
After maybe two weeks I came over the big pipe one morning and there was a Coon in my snare!  
I had learned how to snare Coon!  The snares were bought from Raymond Thompson, thanks Ray.  The book helped a lot too! Thanks Tom.               But I can say that I realized instantly it was the Coon! Who tought me to snare!
I should have let the Coon go as a means of showing my gratitude.
Don't actually remember if I did or not but I probably shot it and took it home and skinned it.

                                  I learned all I could from old Tom Krouse, and would highly recomend his book,  'DYNAMITE SNARES AND SNARING'
as the best snaring book I have ever read!
            I bought the snares from Raymond Thompson.  5/64ths  wire with a Thompson lock.  5' long.
                                  But it was the 'experimenting'  with the snare set..
             And the Coon it self that were responsible for my success on the snare line.  The best year I ever had before some cowards, three brothers named Hall, I didn't even know them.  Craig, Robert, and brother #3 that the Sherriffs dept really wanted!  killed all my hounds and me too! I just was too tough,and recovered, after being in a coma for 5 weeks,  the hospital for 5 months,  three years ago.  They poisoned with arsenic, CottonJoe Suemay, Katymay, shot Bonnie Bell and old Sport.  {See the story of old Sport!}
Now after 15 years they are all dead, after first having been in prison a while.    I can get me some new hounds.  Sandymay is asleep on her couch in the bed room.  And she is real loving and will have a good home with me and I with her.

The best year I ever had Hounding, Trapping, &  Snaring on my foot line around my house was 13 Coyotes, 5 trapped and 6 snared!  5  Bobcat,     2 trapped and 3 treed by Cotton Joe and Suemay.  Including the big one still tanned and mounted on my den wall.  24 Coon,  all treed by my beautiful Hounds, as as they grew to be so good I didn't set Coon traps or snares, I saved Coon for my Hounds.
Beaver are best snared!  On trails,  easy walking above the steep creek banks.  Don't remember how many, 3-4-5.  2-3 ringtail cats,
One mink, trapped in a blind trail set. 3-4 skunks.                                                        And a million possums.


                                   Yup,  the Coon taught me to snare, but without the 'experimenting'  it would not have been possible.
                                             Thank you   J. Knife

[trappnman]

people tell me you can't catch and hold coyotes in unmodifed Duke 1.75s.

I tell these people to learn to guide.

[jim-NE]

1.) One season all my cotton gloves were soaking wet, so I broke all the rules and set a bunch of coyote traps without any gloves on...rather than run home and find a dry pair. I tried that on/off for severall seasons, and per my notebook didn't notice any difference between seasons where I maticulously set with gloves on vs. seasons where I didn't use any. I'm a bit skeptical now of the whole scent thing vs. my time and my butterfingers and how I fumble around with dogs and springs in a pair of gloves.
2.) I too tried smaller-jaw spread traps on coyotes one year, based on comments my uncle Fred made to me about how he had good luck using nothing but #2 longsprings. All the books and demos I sat through said nothing smaller than a #3 coil or long, period. His advice seemed to go way against the grain. Anyway, I tried some modified #2s that season, and have never looked back since. We get away with it here because our coyotes really don't run very large, and we have a lot of bird hunter activity, which the #2s are much easier on a dog's foot than a bigger stout #3 would be. We also have a very high coon population, and the #3s just grab coons way too high. Coons are the bread and butter around here, and even when you couldn't give yotes away you could still expect a $5 or $10 for a decent, prime coon. I never turn down an incidental boar from my coyote line. (#2s grab coons too high also, but not as high as the #3s do and I seem to keep more coons with the #2s with less damage)
3.) I started setting a lot more #11s on land sets for fox, based on experimentation too. Good placement, and they've performed very well for me. Very nice on land trapped coon, too. I've held quite a few coyotes by a few toes in those little #11s at the same sets, too. Whatever gets in them stays. The double-jawed models have stiffer jaws and I've yet to have one taken apart by a large animal. I've got one cat so far in a #11 too. No, its not my preferred trap for coyotes or cats, but good trap placement and some subtle guiding and I've had some very pleasant surprises from my land-based coon sets.
4.) coyotes love fish. I'd read it here and there, but really discovered it by land trapping for coons...then trying it on coyotes intentially as experimentation sets. It was worth the effort.
5.) Sliders on land have been a work in progress for me. I'm learning. Haven't had a lot of guidance on the subject save for a few articles here and there...so far this one has really been trial and error for me. I'm learning from my mistakes, though.
6.) I experimented with drags one year when it was very dry, on coons in dry creek beds. They worked slick about 99 out of a 100 catches. That 100th one though really showed me just how far a coon can make it if they get out of the bottom land and out into the open ground. Was fun to practice tracking skills though.
7.) I love experimenting with baits and lures, especially homemode concoctions. Lot of trial and error here, as well as some handed down recipes and some advice here and there. I get a kick out of nice catches on stuff that I whip up in the shed out back during the summer.
8.) I'd have to be very honest in saying that my first several critters that I put up myself were a flat-out experiment. That is definitely an area that you hardly become an "expert overnight" at, regardless of the species. Beaver still deal me fits, and occasionally I still stick my big thumb through a rat belly or cut an eye-hole area a little too large on a mink. It just takes a lot of practice to really get a feel for any of the species when skinning them out. The first badger I ever tackled really puzzled me when I got down to the side of the head (low on the side) and I wondered just where this things ears were...I didn't realize just how far down on the side their ears really are. I had done a lot of coons up to that point, and sort of expected them more up on the back of the head like a coon's ears. It was a great experience though, and I chuckle to myself every badger I tackle now when I get to that same area of the head region and start looking for ear cartilage.
Jim-NE

[coyotero]

I have experimented with,here goes,different trap brands,trap sizes,modifications,no modifications,lures baits,mixed urine(from several different coyotes) versus urine collected off  one adult male(coyote),different set construction,trap placement,locations,different states,gloves(different types),no gloves,trapping buckets/bags,digging tools,pan covers(it seems like about a million different materials),starting dates,line rotations,check intervals,lure applicators.With snaring i don't have time to type it all.I have careful written records on my experiments.Lots of my old "I got to do it this way" to catch them have been proven wrong.Good topic.

[skidway]

Seems like everything I do is an experiment on my line. Most everybody on these boards seems to have farms with lots of picture perfect set locations to trap on. 85% of my line is in the woods where sign is difficult to find so locations are too. I borrowed a old and fat golden retriever from a friend and let him take me for a walk and watched where he went. He doesn't get excited and takes the easy way through everything. I set where he stops and it seems to be working. I know it's weird but he likes the same things coyotes do and that's all I target.
   Short vs long chain, rerod stakes or disposables, modified or stock trap and on and on. I've tried it all and made up my own mind on what I think works best. But when the dog dies I'm screwed. Unless somebody has any woods experience they would like to share?

[coyotero]

Skid  your post made me smile,my best trapline dog I've ever had is my old Golden Retriever.She is real aggressive and hates coyotes.I finally killed an old male coyote that I had educated with her help.She made a scent post and kickback on a trail intersection he was using to come in and play games.Slipped a well blend #2 Bridger up tight to the piece of sage she used and next check he was waiting for us. I have part of one of my lines that is tree covered,not exactly woods but as close as I have to woods.I use the trail intersections,saddles and funnel areas.The same locations as out in the open just tree covered. If your loaner dog expires we may be able to work something out with Maggie.I have a Black Lab that is coming on nicely.

[skidway]

I'm gone too long on lots of occasions to care for another dog but thanks for the offer: I'll pass!

[Beaverboy]

during the breeding season try placing a teaspoon of matrix urine on the dirt above the pan on a bedded double staked trap. I've had good results with yote and cat