Author Topic: NEF/H&R OR ENCORE? (Read 1999 times)

huntnut · « **on:** August 09, 2004, 04:00:42 PM »

SHOULD I GET A NEF/H&R OR ENCORE I'VE SHOT MY BROTHER-IN-LAWS ULTRA 223 AND LIKED IT BUT THE ENCORE HAS MORE BARRELS AND CAN BE TURNED INTO A PISTOL I'M THINKING ABOUT 22-250, 270,204,
THE BEST THING ABOUT NEF/H&R IS THE PRICE THE WORST IS HAVING TO SHIP IT TO GET ANOTHER BARREL

JPH45 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 09, 2004, 05:18:29 PM »

With the cost of Encore barrels being as much and more than the cost of a complete NEF, why bother with the Encore or extra barrels for that matter?

Markus · « **Reply #2 on:** August 09, 2004, 05:28:00 PM »

$600.00 and three complete guns or at $600.00for one gun then $250.00 and up per barrel. If you've got deep pockets or and understanding wife or both get the encore. If you need a simple, inexpensive, effective tool get the handi.

handirifle · « **Reply #3 on:** August 09, 2004, 05:50:39 PM »

huntnut
I'd go with the TC if either of these two reasons are VERY important to you.
First, the TC can handle magnum class cartridges, the NEF cannot.

Second, the TC can change from rifle to pistol, the NEF cannot. Otherwise I'd go NEF. I've heard TC's having the same issues the NEF has, some accuracy issues, some ejection issues and trigger pull.

Fred M · « **Reply #4 on:** August 09, 2004, 06:43:32 PM »

Huntnut.
I would get a TC for no other reason than to have a factory 30-30AI with a second barrel for a 257Roberts AI. And if you fancy a 223 get the AI version. The AI versions are just a dream in single shot rifles.

A pistole is another option for States were you can hunt with them. They are banned for hunting where I live. Fred M.

handirifle · « **Reply #5 on:** August 09, 2004, 08:20:44 PM »

I don't understand why someone would pay $300 for an AI barrel when you can get one and convert it yourself for a third of that.

The TC's strong point is availability of calibers the NEF doesn't have. To me, an AI version of a caliber NEF has is not enough.

oneshotonekill · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2004, 10:39:08 AM »

Huntnut,
The encore is a higher quality firearm with better fit and finish, and it utilizes CNC machinery so all barrels in the encore line will fit your receiver. The H&R's are built with larger tolerances and barrels are hand fitted to your receiver. To aquire new barrels you must send the receiver back to have the new barrel fitted. I have examples of each that are great shooters. I also have H&R barrels that don't shoot so well. $$$ is a big consideration. Also let me point out the rifle to pistol thing is an ATF violation. You can not buy a firearm classified as a rifle and convert it to a pistol without ATF paperwork and a $200 fee. You could however buy an Encore pistol and then convert it to a rifle (that would cover all bases).

Major · « **Reply #7 on:** August 10, 2004, 11:32:51 AM »

BINGO oneshotonekill has said it all. While the H&R/NEFs are OK and are less expensive there is no real comparison to an Encore. Just be sure you start with a pistol version if you ever plan on having a pistol version, otherwise the Feds will be knocking on your door.

JPH45 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 10, 2004, 12:08:17 PM »

That is complete nonsense on the rifle to pistol. With the Encore or Contender, the frame (as with all arms) is serial numbered. What would be illegal with the Encore/TC would be to have either a pistol barrel (LESS than 16") with the shoulder stock mounted to the frame or a rifle barrel with the pistol grip mounted to the frame that brought you in under the minumum length requirement for a rifle. (I do not know that length)

Now, it is illegal to convert a fixed barrel/reciever rifle you own to a pistol without the paperwork. It is also illegal to convert your pistol to a rifle or your shotgun to barrrel length shorter than 18" without the paperwork. I am sure all this info is available online.

Fred M · « **Reply #9 on:** August 10, 2004, 01:35:30 PM »

handirifle.
Well, you US folks have a whole lot more to think about than us Canucks.
Hand guns are only allowed for target shooting on approved ranges, and all this requires a sack full of permits and paper work.

No matter what the Encore is a better choice if money is not an issue.

If you ream your own AI for free you may or may not end up with a good chamber? A solid pilot for a 30 is .3005 allowing for a .0035" groove, with a micro groove barrel this should be .3035". With a live pilot this is no real problem if you know the land diameter at the throat.

So all you AI home reamers beware lest you end up with a chatter or an oval chamber. Also solid pilots can be bushed to suit if you have a lath.

I would rather have an Encore factory reamed AI chamber. Like I said before if the 30-30 does not shoot good the AI chamber will make it shoot worse or just as bad. That of course goes for any AI conversion. Fred M.

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2004, 01:44:01 PM »

Yep Fred, it looks like the Canadian Govt. does a lot of its citizen's thinking. Sadly it appears the the U.S. is trying to move in that direction also. God help us.

Big Blue · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2004, 03:01:04 PM »

$1180 for the six H+R/NEF complete rifles/shotgun, I've never sent for a barrel, prefering to buy complete guns. For the same money, I could have an Encore with two spare barrels. I have previously owned an Encore, and there is no doubt in my mind that the Encore is a much better rifle, hands down, but when I chose to spend my hard to come by money, I bought H+R/NEF. Now with that said, I must say that I wouldn't trade my Buffalo Classic for any Encore.
Don

Texgun · « **Reply #12 on:** August 10, 2004, 06:27:30 PM »

I traded a NEF Handi and a bunch of cash for an Encore .308. Got a good scope and went to sight it in. It shot fair but decided to try different ammo.
In the mean time I added a hammer extension because the scope (attached with TC mount and rings) was in the way of the hammer.
I got 3 misfires out of 20 rounds.
I got some new Winchester factory loads and had 4 misfires out of 20 rounds.
I called TC and the first thing the rep asked me is if I had a hammer extension on it. "yep, that's the problem, we don't recommend a hammer extension because it torques the hammer enough to make it malfunction".
Well that ticked me off. They shouldn't sell TC scope rings so short that you can't get the hammer back if the gun won't shoot with a hammer extension.
After they told me that I noticed that the hammer is real sloppy.
This is a brand new gun and I don't trust it enough to hunt with it. I spent big bucks for what I thought was a fine machine. I would rather hunt with a $200.00- $250.00 any day.

Fred M · « **Reply #13 on:** August 10, 2004, 07:20:27 PM »

Big Blue and Texgun.
The two posts are very revealing. I have never owned a TC and only have experience with one only H&R Ultra. I would have thought the Encore was put together much better, with better functioning. A hammer extension should not have any detrimental influence on ignition. As a matter of fact a hammer extenson's weight should enhance ignition.

I can't say that I fell over backwards about the virtues of the NEF rifle. But after some serious tinkering and using about 150 rounds of ammo in testing, I finaly got it to shoot. Honestly you could not expect for the new tyro shooter to have the mechanical insight, tools and ability to do all the things required.

So I have to rate my own H&R as very poor coming out of the box brand new. An inept person would not be happy with most Handi's if mine is an indication. Fred M.

Mitch in MI · « **Reply #14 on:** August 11, 2004, 12:21:52 AM »

The hammer extension has been said to cause misfires in some H&R/NEF rifles (the same extension that came with the rifle) I always figured the cure would be to buy or make a balanced extension. I have some 1/4" brass rod that would make a nice extension if you drilled and tapped the hammer, put a threaded steel rod through it, and screwed equal length stubs of brass onto that.
Cabelas sells a lightweight and nearly symetrical aluminum hammer extension that clamps onto the spur.

handirifle · « **Reply #15 on:** August 11, 2004, 05:04:25 AM »

FredM I'd have to say yours was not the rule, but not a real exception either. Mostly they fally somewhere in-between. I don't have any, (if you count barrels, 5 in all) that shoot poorly for a hunting firearm. I have several that shoot excellent. One 30-30 that gets 1" groups regular with Rem factory 170gr loads and two 223's that do well under that. One with factory Win white box and the other with handloads.

Of the three receivers and 5 barrels, never had one single misfire, not one. ALL have the hammer extension.

The NEF has never had one other malady that befalls the older TC rifles. If you do not fire a cocked NEF you just simply hold the hammer and let it down with pulled trigger. When ready to fire, pull hammer back. You couldn't do that on the older TC without opening the barrel. What a pain that would be.

There is no question the fit and finish is better on the TC, the newer ones are stronger, though many sites do not reccomend magnum class rounds in the older ones either.

To me it's like this. My Savage bolt gun will shoot the pants of many rifles costing several times as much. If I want to buy a gun to look at, I'm not gonna hunt with it. If I don't hunt with it, Idon't worry about what claiber it is. If I do hunt with is (I hunt with ALL mine except one) so caliber, accuracy and durability are important. Looks are last on the list.

ALL my NEF's are reliable and accurate. Some with a little tinkering, most not.

I think they are the best bargain to be had in a NEW rifle. Yes they have limits and drawbacks (sending in for new barrel) but nce you've gotten past those it's just plain fun.

mag41vance · « **Reply #16 on:** August 11, 2004, 09:09:45 AM »

The NEF / H&R rifles are a working mans gun. No bells or whistles. It's the kind of gun you can't damage. The T/C's are fine firearms, but not one you would want to loan your cheap brother-in-law, or take out in the rain, or paddle your boat with. The NEF is an inexpensive, tough gun.
I'll take the NEF handi.
vance

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #17 on:** August 11, 2004, 09:23:00 AM »

JPH, so you start out with a pistol or a frame only. It's perfectly legal to put a rifle barrel on a pistol frame.

All this is just nonsense BATF dreamed up to make life difficult for honest people, anyway.

oneshotonekill · « **Reply #18 on:** August 11, 2004, 01:59:49 PM »

Quote from: JPH45

That is complete nonsense on the rifle to pistol. With the Encore or Contender, the frame (as with all arms) is serial numbered. What would be illegal with the Encore/TC would be to have either a pistol barrel (LESS than 16") with the shoulder stock mounted to the frame or a rifle barrel with the pistol grip mounted to the frame that brought you in under the minumum length requirement for a rifle. (I do not know that length)

Now, it is illegal to convert a fixed barrel/reciever rifle you own to a pistol without the paperwork. It is also illegal to convert your pistol to a rifle or your shotgun to barrrel length shorter than 18" without the paperwork. I am sure all this info is available online.

The length you are referring to is 26 inches over all length and you are correct about the length violation and stock with barrel less than 16". However, firearms are classified as long gun, frame only, or handgun, there are several possibilities for frame only that I will not get into but a firearm that was purchased as a long gun can not be converted to a handgun with out a "AOW" permit from BATFE along with a $200 stamp fee.

JPH45 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 11, 2004, 02:51:39 PM »

Reply to DJ and Oneshot, yeah, and how many people have you seen the ATF run down becausee they had a pistol barrel on a TC rifle frame? If you're geting tagged for this, you re geting tagged for a lot more, you've pissed the wrong guy off and they are out to make life miserable for you.

Major · « **Reply #20 on:** August 11, 2004, 04:35:39 PM »

Well JPH45,

This subject has been hashed over time and time again here and on other forums and the answer is always the same. ATF has a ruling on this and this is what they say. T/C pistol to rifle is fine. T/C frame only to pistol or rifle is fine. T/C rifle to pistol is a no-no.

Now they may not actually hunt you down if you go T/C rifle to pistol but if something else should happen and you do get caught I would not want to be in your shoes. Why take the chance?

BIGBOREFAN · « **Reply #21 on:** August 12, 2004, 07:02:19 AM »

OK, do you meen if I have a TC Encore rifle the that I cannot buy a 12'' TC barrel and pistol grip to make it a Encore pistol. Or do you meen that you can not put a 12'' TC pistol barrel on a TC frame that has a rifle stock on it, becauseI know you cannot go below 16'' with a rifle stock on the frame. Please explain. Thanks

BBF

handirifle · « **Reply #22 on:** August 12, 2004, 07:05:59 AM »

BBF
I don't think you'd be legal either way, unless the barrel/riflestock combo was over 26" in length.

Kinda a stupid rule as far as the TC goes but that was not the intent at it's inception.

BIGBOREFAN · « **Reply #23 on:** August 12, 2004, 07:20:19 AM »

I was under the impression that the Encore could be interchanged either way. For the simple fact that the gun can be purchased either way. As a pistol or rifle. I think the TC is a grey area. The H&R's are not because there never was a single shot pistol. Therefor chopping the barrel on one and cutting the stock down to pistol grip would be illegal. The TC Encore on the other hand I think would be legal. I'm going to check on this.

BBF

BIGBOREFAN · « **Reply #24 on:** August 12, 2004, 07:32:49 AM »

Just talked to one of the most knowledgeable gun dealers I have ever delt with. He told me it is LEGAL to take a TC Encore rifle and install a TC handgun grip and a TC pistol barrel and have a Encore pistol. You can do this with any TC Encore or Contender. He said they are classified as a pistol and a rilfe with the ATF. Since TC can be purchased either way it is legal. Just do not leave the Rifle stock on the frame with a pistol barrel because that is illegal.

BBF

Mitch in MI · « **Reply #25 on:** August 12, 2004, 11:10:25 AM »

Quote from: BIGBOREFAN

He told me it is LEGAL to take a TC Encore rifle and install a TC handgun grip and a TC pistol barrel and have a Encore pistol. You can do this with any TC Encore or Contender.

That's the way I remembered it too. T/C had to sue the BATF to get it that way, and no other manufacturer will have the same situation unless they sue the crooked govt parasites too.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #26 on:** August 12, 2004, 02:12:04 PM »

The only problem I can see is if you were required by the state you are in to have a concealed carry permit or handgun permit and did not possses one, you would then be in violation of a state law....<><.... :grin:

Mitch in MI · « **Reply #27 on:** August 12, 2004, 03:58:41 PM »

I don't know about other states, but if I were to put a pistol grip on my 18" shotgun it would become too short to be considered a long gun and the state of Michigan would expect me to obtain a handgun permit and register it. Not that there's any legal requirement for me to do so. (the Bill of Rights supercedes any state law that contradicts it)

BIGBOREFAN · « **Reply #28 on:** August 13, 2004, 02:07:36 AM »

What is a handgun permit. I know what a concealed carry permit is. I never heard of having to get a handgun permit at least not in good ole WV. Is WV the only state that does not have whacked out handgun laws. You have to buy a pistol stamp in order to have it in the woods but thats it. I tell ya I would not live in any other state. The only downside we have is no Sunday hunting.

BBF

Texgun · « **Reply #29 on:** August 13, 2004, 03:48:55 AM »

Why a stamp for handgun?