Author Topic: DOORS LOCKED AT SHOOTER'S LOUNGE!  (Read 3217 times)

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Offline Dali Llama

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« on: August 10, 2004, 02:14:08 AM »
PRESS RELEASE[/size]

Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2004

Time:  7:00 A.M.

Locale:  East of Eden and West of Zion


****For Immediate Release****

The Shooter's Lounge Forum at MarlinOwners has been shut down and locked up by its administrator.  No new posts or editing of existing posts are presently allowed at the forum.

The following quite pointed commentary was offered by Larry, "Head Cook and Bottle Washer" at MarlinOwners:
"When I started this I stated no political posts, no personal attacks but it seems that was ignored. I'm not one to set here and nit-pick threads. I opened this forum with reservations and now it ends. The privilage[sic] was abused. Don't let me see this crap showing up in other forums. I am pissed and I will not tolerate it."

In spite of the above, numerous other theories and rumors abound as to the reason for the shutdown of the forum, but none can be substantiated at this point.  The final post on the forum, at 5:36 a.m. this morning, was made my a poster named "Leftoverdj" and was in a discussion thread entitled "Same-sex couples are excellent parents."  Accordingly, sources who wish to remain anonymous have attributed the closure of Shooter's Lounge to the recent proliferation of similar provocative posts dealing with subject matter oftentimes considered controversial in current American society.  A relatively new forum member from Texas has frequently been linked to recent disputes among members, so some blame him for the forum shutdown.  A long-term forum member from California has angrily attacked and disparaged those with opinions that differ from his own, and has indicated a desire for censorship on the forum.  It is also noteworthy that another long-term forum member stated just last night that he was leaving the forum due to recent controversies among his fellow forum members, but was seen lingering in the neighborhood this morning.  It is readily apparent that controversy and conflict were pervasive at Shooter's Lounge in recent weeks.

No firm dates have been provided regarding the permanence of the shutdown at Shooter's Lounge.  Several forum members have expressed glimmers of hope for reinstatement of what they have described as their personal "entitlement" to make posts at Shooter's Lounge.  We will keep you apprised as further developments transpire.
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline magooch

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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2004, 03:24:31 AM »
Rats!  Just when things were going well.  I don't see what the problem was.  There are plenty of politically correct and polite forums around.  I, for one, liked the free-wheeling forum that Marlin Owners had become.
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Offline BamBams

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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2004, 04:53:35 AM »
I'm curious about something.  Larry wrote that he stated "no political posts" when he opened that forum.  Stated this to whom?  There were political posts there almost from day #1.   Does he have any rules posted someplace?  I couldn't find any.  If I'd been aware about such a rule, I obviously would have never posted anything political, so if you are aware of some, please guide me there. I'd like to know how I managed to miss the "political" rule for about 6 months of posting?

Furthermore, the threads on his forum deteriorated into personal attacks for no good reason whatsoever, and this naturally led to the forum becoming little more than an adult "romper room."  I went away for awhile, came back, and my first reaction was that Larry's forum had turned into the "stupidity channel."  I've seen this happen in many places, and many times over the years since I started on the Internet.

Lastly, I suspect the main reason for the shutdown was "money" followed by a temper tantrum of losing a few bucks from complainers.  I'm pretty darn sure that Larry would like to see his BBS become self-supporting.  And it really doesn't take much money to accomplish that either.  Domain names, web hosting, etc, are pretty darn cheap - and the software he's using is practically free.  A simple BBS, such as Larry's, takes up *very* little webspace. The real cost is in the time it takes to maintain the BBS, and that's not a place one should cut corners as he is now probably realizing the hard way.  Greybeard is smart.  He's got moderaters to help him watch over things, and this frees up ALOT more time for him.

More lastly, Larry was remiss in tending to his BBS.  He had months of opportunity to "warn" folks that, in his view, things were getting out of hand -- the same thing Greybeard occassionally does.  I think people would have behaved more had they been "reminded" of his BBS rules at least once.  This is obviously a "tantrum" in that his actions would indicate he's more interested in having his way, than in retaining an active BBS where people DO get along, but hey, this is his first shot at it, it's HIS BBS, and he can do whatever he darn well pleases with it - even if that includes cutting off his nose despite his face.  From my perspective, he didn't have to go that far to obtain the desired results. His words, "I'm pissed." indicate an emotional reaction, rather than a "thought out" response to a problem.  Frankly, nobody is going to care if he's pissed, doing headstands, or whatever, BUT they might care if they became aware that their little hobby was going to be altered if they didn't shape up a bit.  In any case, locking his most productive forum will prove to be a poor strategic move in the long haul.

I used to be a BBS sysop BEFORE the advent of the Internet, and I can tell you one thing, I made my share of mistakes! It's a learned skill to help people from all points of view, and walks of life to get along with eachother without excercising total control over everything.  I preferred to deal with folks on an individual basis, and even at that, I wasn't always successful.  It will always be true that the BEST forums are ones in which people can freely express whatever they have to say.  Unfortunately, there ARE money considerations as well as legal considerations.  A big reality is that in a "moderated" situation, the sysop (or admin) is actually taking MORE legal responsibility for what is said and done on his/her BBS, and lawsuits DO happen as I had indicated once on Larry's forum.

Anyway, who cares at this point?  It's just the Internet anyway!   :lol:
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Offline skpp108

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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2004, 05:30:50 AM »
Yeah, I saw that too. Seems to me that gun owners are for the most part more politically aware and traditional minded than many and that political discussion goes hand in hand with the sport and the general "genre" of gun ownership. I guess I'm saying "What does Larry expect". I kinda like that board and I hope he's not shooting himself in the d**k, but there are others so I guess I'll start adding more shortcuts to my "favorites" list-
Use it up while its still good-

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2004, 05:39:00 AM »
I agree with the statement  about the political statements to who? I never knew that rule? If Larry wanted a orderly board then he should have had moderators like here and other boards. Or if he did not want to keep order himself! Heck when in Rome do as the Romans do I was more free wheeling there and at some other forums than I am here and other moderated forums. Heck when you are at a bar you let your hair down but do not act the same at some ones house.  :) Greybeard laid down the rules here and some of the Marlin Refugees left mad and found a home at Larry's No moderators like  at that Nasty Greybeards and we are Free! WEll I Wonder what the boys think of Larry now? His board his decision I do think it was not that rowdy I do wonder the reason why like it was stated he had months to set the rules or warn some folks if he figured neccessary. Too bad it had to happen maybe after he cools down he will reconsider. Well anyway to any who come back and have not posted for a while welcome back and enjoy just remember we are moderated here.  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline BamBams

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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2004, 05:53:09 AM »
Well Jim,

If he does open it back up, I think he needs to make his rules of conduct very clear and be willing to enforce them on a case by case basis.  He'll actually get more posters that way, since people aren't comfortable posting when they are unsure of what they can say, or how they can say it.  There is a lot of comfort in rules, and discipline is truly the gateway to freedom!  :lol:
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Offline RIFLERANGER

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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2004, 06:02:05 AM »
Homeless again  :cry:

Truth is, I respect Larry and we all owe him many thanks for the tremendous undertaking that is involved in setting up a BB.
True, it is his to do with as he pleases, but you are correct, his reaction is more "I'll shoot first and ask questions later" and this will come back to bite him in the a$$.

The Shooters Lounge is the only forum that I truly enjoyed, as it was supposed to be a place to let it all hang out.  While some people took that a bit too far, I don't think the lockout was warranted, again, just mho.

I am also willing to bet that the bulk of his donations came from the regulars at that site.  I think that if he doesn't change his mind soon, it will be the death knell of that site too.

Ranger
"HAVE YOU HUGGED YOUR RIFLES TODAY ?!"

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2004, 06:18:14 AM »
Quote from: BamBams
Well Jim,

If he does open it back up, I think he needs to make his rules of conduct very clear and be willing to enforce them on a case by case basis.  He'll actually get more posters that way, since people aren't comfortable posting when they are unsure of what they can say, or how they can say it.  There is a lot of comfort in rules, and discipline is truly the gateway to freedom!  :lol:


Well like I said When in Rome? I got that impression there as soon as I got there it was a wide open site? It sure acted that way and the members all made the comments we do not need to be moderated ect. Considering that view I think for the most part it worked well as it did at the old Marlin site. I tend to think it was like  a bar lots of lively conversation but as most bars the situation can get out of hand once and a while yet can be brought back into control. Lets say most forums are like that but the moderated ones have bouncers and the other unmoderated ones are a bit more unruly yet still fun to go to. I guess we will have to see what the future brings here and there. Jim
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline BamBams

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« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2004, 06:24:42 AM »
Yep. I can say that I perceived things precisely the way you did.

For things to come back under control, I believe there has to be some prevailing leadership to bring that about, and this is precisely where I think Larry has been remiss.  

One more caveat, should it re-open, I won't be going back.  I feel as though I did ALOT as your typical, un-empowered poster to try and stem the tide of "stupidityville" on that forum --  even to the point of making a post entitled, "Threads Going Downhill."  I got no communication from Larry whatsoever, and I came back to find the door shut and myself chastised along with the same bunch of morons who took the place to the those slimy depths.  It's not that I'm offended persay, it's more a matter of self-respect.  We are judged by the company we keep, and I ain't gonna be slummin' *smiles*
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Offline mag41vance

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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2004, 06:31:02 AM »
It was starting to be a breeding ground for controversy. Some folks like the opportunity to discuss matters  from Heaven to Hell and everything in between. Some would use thoughtful process in the discussions, other let their emotions rule them. Most kept a level head.
  I could sense condemnation on the horizon. Perhaps it will give everyone the opportunity to read over the agreement we signed when we joined these forums, and try harder to adhere to the agreement.
              RV
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Offline Nightrain52

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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2004, 06:45:26 AM »
Well maybe things will start to pick-up here at Greybeards again since everyone got their hand slapped. :-D  :)  :D
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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2004, 06:47:27 AM »
Heck I posted a lot of Anti Kerry post :)  :)  :) Maybe Larry is a Kerry Fan :)  :)  :)  :)  :)
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline RIFLERANGER

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« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2004, 06:51:58 AM »
It's all Big Morties fault !! :)
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Offline BIGBOREFAN

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« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2004, 07:35:12 AM »
You guys are talking like the whole board was shut down. It was just the shooters lounge that you can not post in. You can post in all the forums.


BBF
LETS GO STEELER'S. BIG BEN JUST KEEPS ON TICKEN. STEELER'S IN JACKSONVILLE THIS YEAR!

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2004, 07:45:38 AM »
Quote from: BIGBOREFAN
You guys are talking like the whole board was shut down. It was just the shooters lounge that you can not post in. You can post in all the forums.


BBF


True but all the general BS that every one seem to like was at the shut down forum. Kinda  like some one shutting down the bar or the corner store with the cracker barrel!
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline NYH1

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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2004, 08:04:30 AM »
I didn't have a problem with the political post at all. I didn't know we weren't suppose to make them. The personal attacks did get way out of hand. There seemed to be a few people that would blast you if they didn't agree with you. They thought their opinions were facts. I hope Larry changes his mind, I liked that forum. Maybe he should have it moderated to some extent I don't know. I do know that if he moderated it in any way at all there would be "one" person that wouldn't post there, and that would take care of a lot of the personal attacks.
If he doesn't open it back up, I guess I'll spend a lot more time here at Graybeards. Remember Graybeards (both Mr. and Mrs.) have been very good to use and we shouldn't forget that! :)
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Offline BamBams

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« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2004, 08:07:47 AM »
Quote from: mag41vance
Perhaps it will give everyone the opportunity to read over the agreement we signed when we joined these forums, and try harder to adhere to the agreement.  RV


Okay, that's twice now that someone has mentioned agreeing to rules.  RV, could you PLEASE tell me what rules I agreed to when I started posting at Larry's?  I honestly cannot remember seeing rules or agreements at all.  Where are they at?  I WANT to read them.

On the other hand, it's pretty darn hard to miss the rules around here, so I am aware of those.

Thanks!
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Offline Leftoverdj

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« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2004, 08:08:28 AM »
Larry's board, Larry's rules. I have no problem with that.
It is the duty of the good citizen to love his country and hate his gubmint.

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2004, 08:16:18 AM »
Quote from: magooch
There are plenty of politically correct and polite forums around.  I, for one, liked the free-wheeling forum that Marlin Owners had become.
Dali Llama say he wonder where all of the inhabitants of MarlinOwners will go now?  Dali say he would like to continue exchanging information and viewpoints with most of them, and thus hope posters here will keep everyone informed of new habitats found. :-)
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2004, 08:20:54 AM »
Quote from: mag41vance
It was starting to be a breeding ground for controversy.
              RV
:-) Dali Llama say yes, we all know very well mag41vance's (or do it be RV Stallard??) recent feelings on that subject: http://www.marlinowners.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=3129 . :(
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Offline Major

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« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2004, 08:22:58 AM »
Quote from: BamBams
Quote from: mag41vance
Perhaps it will give everyone the opportunity to read over the agreement we signed when we joined these forums, and try harder to adhere to the agreement.  RV


Okay, that's twice now that someone has mentioned agreeing to rules.  RV, could you PLEASE tell me what rules I agreed to when I started posting at Larry's?  I honestly cannot remember seeing rules or agreements at all.  Where are they at?  I WANT to read them.

On the other hand, it's pretty darn hard to miss the rules around here, so I am aware of those.

Thanks!


I too would like to know where they are at.   I don't remember seeing anything about no political posts either.
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Offline BamBams

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« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2004, 08:25:50 AM »
Quote from: Leftoverdj
Larry's board, Larry's rules. I have no problem with that.


What rules Leftoverdj?  Can you please enlighten us?  Where are they posted?
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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2004, 08:48:36 AM »
Quote from: New York Hunter
I didn't have a problem with the political post at all. I didn't know we weren't suppose to make them. The personal attacks did get way out of hand. There seemed to be a few people that would blast you if they didn't agree with you. They thought their opinions were facts. I hope Larry changes his mind, I liked that forum. Maybe he should have it moderated to some extent I don't know. I do know that if he moderated it in any way at all there would be "one" person that wouldn't post there, and that would take care of a lot of the personal attacks.
If he doesn't open it back up, I guess I'll spend a lot more time here at Graybeards. Remember Graybeards (both Mr. and Mrs.) have been very good to use and we shouldn't forget that! :)


Yes Mr  and Mrs Greybeard have been  and Are Good to us here!
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Offline mag41vance

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« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2004, 08:51:39 AM »
Quote from: BamBams
Quote from: mag41vance
Perhaps it will give everyone the opportunity to read over the agreement we signed when we joined these forums, and try harder to adhere to the agreement.  RV


Okay, that's twice now that someone has mentioned agreeing to rules.  RV, could you PLEASE tell me what rules I agreed to when I started posting at Larry's?  I honestly cannot remember seeing rules or agreements at all.  Where are they at?  I WANT to read them.

On the other hand, it's pretty darn hard to miss the rules around here, so I am aware of those.

Thanks!


 This is the agreement on the registration page at MOT:
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You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed). The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered above being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent the webmaster, administrator and moderators cannot be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.

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no x now!

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2004, 09:09:15 AM »
"You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. " Rules posted on every forum site I have ever been at. Every admin interperts them as they see fit. I do not see any thing that says political there? What is covered there larry never warned any one to the contrary on the site if he did I do not remember it and nor did he ban any one for such behavior except your mortie every one keeps talking about instead he just shut her down with no warning kinda like Marlin did that even he was up in arms about? Well Like Lefty said his forum his rules but he should have spelled them out if he was getting disatisfied. As far as the above rules go Except for Jarheads tongue thing I have never seen any thing obscene or vulgar there. Slanderous is up for grabs depends how serious you want to take it most was bickering back and forth not really slanderous if you call some one a name is that slander I suppose it is but who takes it that far not many. Sexual orientated yea a few post about general news happenings nothing obscene or vulgar just happened to be about gender issues ect. Abusive or hatefull? Well words may have been spoken back and forth at times but nothing that the members did not keep in check? For the most part considering no moderators it was pretty smooth there nothing that I could see to warrant shutting it down.
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Offline BamBams

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« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2004, 09:12:46 AM »
Ohhhhhhhh...........that's what you were referring to then?  Thanks.  That's the standard BBS disclaimer that comes pre-installed with most good BBS software.  He barely, if at all, changed it to suit his BBS.  For example, he doesn't believe in moderation, etc., but here's what I'm trying to find out about:

Larry said, "When I started this I stated no political posts, no personal attacks but it seems that was ignored."

Did you have any knowledge of the above?

Think about this RV:   There's even a picture of several nude girls on his gallery. And yet another on a thread. I can't link to it, nor would I, as that would violate the rules of THIS BBS, but that's 100%, in your face, sexual if ya ask me, and he doesn't seem to have any problems with that?  So in effect, nobody REALLY knows what Larry's expectations are for conduct on his BBS - hence the mayham and problems.  It's entirely leadership, or lack thereof, issue, and one (namely me) gets the impression he's making up the rules as he goes along -- in a very kneejerk fashion, and punishing his customers at random.  In other words, whenever he gets "pissed off." People are people, no matter where you find them.  To be organized and civil, you gotta have government.  Hey, is this a good time to make an argument against anarchy?  HAHAHA!
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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2004, 09:17:13 AM »
Well one thing about removing or editing objectional material he sure did that in grand style!  :)  :)  :)  :)  :)
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Offline mag41vance

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« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2004, 09:23:57 AM »
Quote from: BamBams


Larry said, "When I started this I stated no political posts, no personal attacks but it seems that was ignored."

Did you have any knowledge of the above?


 I had never seen such a request, but I had read the agreement. I had seen from the beginning, political post. (Which are OK with me) Many of the political post were nothing more than pasting info about Kerry or Bush. A lot of mudd slinging depending on your slant. All that stuff is fine, but it had become very predictable.
  RV
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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2004, 09:36:24 AM »
The Shooter's Lounge Forum at MarlinOwners has been shut down and locked up by its administrator. No new posts or editing of existing posts are presently allowed at the forum.

The following quite pointed commentary was offered by Larry, "Head Cook and Bottle Washer" at MarlinOwners:
"When I started this I stated no political posts, no personal attacks but it seems that was ignored. I'm not one to set here and nit-pick threads. I opened this forum with reservations and now it ends. The privilage[sic] was abused. Don't let me see this crap showing up in other forums. I am pissed and I will not tolerate it."

In spite of the above, numerous other theories and rumors abound as to the reason for the shutdown of the forum, but none can be substantiated at this point. The final post on the forum, at 5:36 a.m. this morning, was made my a poster named "Leftoverdj" and was in a discussion thread entitled "Same-sex couples are excellent parents." Accordingly, sources who wish to remain anonymous have attributed the closure of Shooter's Lounge to the recent proliferation of similar provocative posts dealing with subject matter oftentimes considered controversial in current American society. A relatively new forum member from Texas has frequently been linked to recent disputes among members, so some blame him for the forum shutdown. A long-term forum member from California has angrily attacked and disparaged those with opinions that differ from his own, and has indicated a desire for censorship on the forum. It is also noteworthy that another long-term forum member stated just last night that he was leaving the forum due to recent controversies among his fellow forum members, but was seen lingering in the neighborhood this morning. It is readily apparent that controversy and conflict were pervasive at Shooter's Lounge in recent weeks.

No firm dates have been provided regarding the permanence of the shutdown at Shooter's Lounge. Several forum members have expressed glimmers of hope for reinstatement of what they have described as their personal "entitlement" to make posts at Shooter's Lounge. We will keep you apprised as further developments transpire.


See all you folks that say Dali only cuts and paste? Not so he writes a pretty good news clipping.  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Dali Llama

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DOORS LOCKED AT SHOOTER'S LOUNGE!
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2004, 12:14:34 PM »
Quote from: jh45gun
The Shooter's Lounge Forum at MarlinOwners has been shut down and locked up by its administrator. No new posts or editing of existing posts are presently allowed at the forum.

The following quite pointed commentary was offered by Larry, "Head Cook and Bottle Washer" at MarlinOwners:
"When I started this I stated no political posts, no personal attacks but it seems that was ignored. I'm not one to set here and nit-pick threads. I opened this forum with reservations and now it ends. The privilage[sic] was abused. Don't let me see this crap showing up in other forums. I am pissed and I will not tolerate it."

In spite of the above, numerous other theories and rumors abound as to the reason for the shutdown of the forum, but none can be substantiated at this point. The final post on the forum, at 5:36 a.m. this morning, was made my a poster named "Leftoverdj" and was in a discussion thread entitled "Same-sex couples are excellent parents." Accordingly, sources who wish to remain anonymous have attributed the closure of Shooter's Lounge to the recent proliferation of similar provocative posts dealing with subject matter oftentimes considered controversial in current American society. A relatively new forum member from Texas has frequently been linked to recent disputes among members, so some blame him for the forum shutdown. A long-term forum member from California has angrily attacked and disparaged those with opinions that differ from his own, and has indicated a desire for censorship on the forum. It is also noteworthy that another long-term forum member stated just last night that he was leaving the forum due to recent controversies among his fellow forum members, but was seen lingering in the neighborhood this morning. It is readily apparent that controversy and conflict were pervasive at Shooter's Lounge in recent weeks.

No firm dates have been provided regarding the permanence of the shutdown at Shooter's Lounge. Several forum members have expressed glimmers of hope for reinstatement of what they have described as their personal "entitlement" to make posts at Shooter's Lounge. We will keep you apprised as further developments transpire.


See all you folks that say Dali only cuts and paste? Not so he writes a pretty good news clipping.  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:
Dali Llama say he sometimes able string together a word or two when it be appropriate. :grin:  :grin:  :grin:
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk