Author Topic: 44 mag load for black bear  (Read 1250 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BIG JAKE

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 232
44 mag load for black bear
« on: August 11, 2004, 11:36:06 AM »
Anyone have any recommendations on a load for black bear in Maine. I don't reload so it has to be factory fodder. It will be over bait at 25yds. from a tree stand.  8)  8)
squeeze it, don't pull it!!!!

Offline Redhawk1

  • Life time NRA Supporter.
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (78)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10748
  • Gender: Male
Re: 44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2004, 01:04:45 PM »
Quote from: BIG JAKE
Anyone have any recommendations on a load for black bear in Maine. I don't reload so it has to be factory fodder. It will be over bait at 25yds. from a tree stand.  8)  8)



A good factory round for black bear would be Federal with 300 gr. cast performance bullets. Nice hot round.  :grin:  I shot a hog with them and it went down with one shot.  I had my gun shop order me some, but now I reload my own.
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

Endowment Life Member of the NRA
Life Member NA

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18269
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2004, 01:22:28 PM »
any hardcast swc or lfn 250-350grain at over 1000 fps will take care of black bear
blue lives matter

Offline Redhawk1

  • Life time NRA Supporter.
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (78)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10748
  • Gender: Male
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2004, 01:30:32 PM »
Quote from: Lloyd Smale
any hardcast swc or lfn 250-350grain at over 1000 fps will take care of black bear


Lloyd Smale, there are not many hard cast "factor"  loaded ammo. I guess he could get buffalo bore ammo also. :grin:
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

Endowment Life Member of the NRA
Life Member NA

Offline Questor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7075
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2004, 03:12:06 PM »
If it has to be factory, check out the Federal cast bullets.  300 grain hard cast bullets like the Buffalo Bore bullets give unbelieveable penetration.
Safety first

Offline The deerslayer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 203
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2004, 03:17:04 PM »
Use soft points or hard cast 250gr or higher.

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26945
  • Gender: Male
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2004, 04:06:06 AM »
If I were in your shoes I'd use Randy Garrett's 310 grain load with an LBT style hard cast bullet. Matter of fact should I ever use a .44 mag on bear that is probably the load I'll take and I do reload and cast my own bullets.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Rmouleart

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 326
  • Gender: Male
  • Aim small hit small.
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2004, 04:29:28 AM »
I would reconmend the Speer GDFP 270gr FP, This is using the Golddot bonding, The factory load is stout and plenty for a baited situation. good factory load. Sorry don't care for cast at all :( Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

Offline tony212

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2004, 05:48:45 AM »
Before I started reloading I used plain old Remington 240 grain soft points.  They always worked perfectly and I always had complete penetration.  Recoil is manageable and accuracy is good also. You won't be disappointed.
Tony212

Offline BIG JAKE

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 232
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2004, 11:36:21 AM »
Thanks guys I knew ya'll come through. Your suggestions are appreciated.
squeeze it, don't pull it!!!!

Offline RollTide

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 457
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2004, 10:27:57 AM »
I am a little confused.  JJHACK recommends 240 -260gr JHP and it seems that everyone else recommends solids of one type or the other.  What gives?

I have never shot a black bear with a 44, but I may get a chance in NM in another month or so if a friend can arrange the hunt?  JJHACK has given a pretty thorough going explanation of his reasons for the JHP loads.  Could someone explain the benefits of the solids over the JHP since it seems that the 240 JHP will achieve through and through penetration on black bears and do more damage on its way through?

Thanks,

Roll Tide

Offline Gregory

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1482
  • Gender: Male
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2004, 11:37:30 AM »
Quote from: RollTide
I am a little confused.  JJHACK recommends 240 -260gr JHP and it seems that everyone else recommends solids of one type or the other.  What gives?

I have never shot a black bear with a 44, but I may get a chance in NM in another month or so if a friend can arrange the hunt?  JJHACK has given a pretty thorough going explanation of his reasons for the JHP loads.  Could someone explain the benefits of the solids over the JHP since it seems that the 240 JHP will achieve through and through penetration on black bears and do more damage on its way through?

Thanks,

Roll Tide



Roll tide
I remember JJHACK's post also and if I were to hunt black bear with my 44
Contender I'd be using a 240 gr JHP.
JJHACK has seen more bear killed than I ever will.
Greg

NRA Endowment Life Member
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Second Amendment, U.S. Constitution (1791)

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26945
  • Gender: Male
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2004, 12:36:28 AM »
That's a fair question. Jim has more experience with bears and no doubt has personally killed more than all of the rest of us responding put together. His experience tells him to use the 240 JHPs.

I have no personal experience at all on bears to go on but do have experience with hogs. That experience tells me that I personally want a heavy hard cast. I just couldn't bring myself to use anything but a heavy hard cast should I be in a situation to shoot a bear or hog with handgun. Don't make me right or Jim wrong. Just what my gut tells me based on my experience none of which is with bears.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Redhawk1

  • Life time NRA Supporter.
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (78)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10748
  • Gender: Male
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2004, 03:49:32 AM »
Quote from: cknight98
based on my experience as well, i'd have to go with GB and say a heavy hardcast...


Like I stated above hard cast is the way to go. If you hit a shoulder bone with a hollow point, it wont get penetration.
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

Endowment Life Member of the NRA
Life Member NA

Offline Rmouleart

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 326
  • Gender: Male
  • Aim small hit small.
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2004, 05:32:50 AM »
I have seen many bears taken bye use of JHP's using revolvers, in saying this, I have also seen many bears with very big exit wounds as well with great blood loss before the bears expired, I have also seen hardcast perform well, due to its penetrating capabilities,but of course no change in dia, like you get from JHP's...Bottom line it all shot placement using a 44mag, When selecting a bullet, Its all preference when hunting Black bears, Bullets of today times are well constructed and can handle any task you give them as long as the bullet was designed for large game hunting, Now if I were to hunt brown bear,Griz, Something I consider really big game animals, with cavity three to five feet deep, you know Id either be using something big heavy 350gr plus, Hornady Interlock FP jacketed bullet or a well constructed cast bullet for deep penetration and a good exit wound. When it comes to hitting solid bone, remember in most situations the bullet will take the path of least resistance for the most part, no matter what your using for a bullet, just the nature of bullets in general, yes sometimes the cast will bust the shoulder and drive deep, when you bust that shoulder the animal is not going anywhere fast, I have also seen jacketed bullets do the same with out separation. Personally I'm a meat hunter and prefer the shot in the boiler room,little meat waisted, yes the bears might run a little but not far with out any lungs;) Aim small hit small RAMbo.

Offline bigbore442001

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 579
  • Gender: Male
    • Bigbore's Outdoors.
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2004, 06:26:38 AM »
I remember talking to someone in Maine who told me that he knows of a warden who uses the Speer 270 grain Gold Dot soft point factory load for animal control.

I will assume that this means bear as well as car hit moose.

Offline RollTide

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 457
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2004, 09:46:54 AM »
Respecting those of different opinion, I think Hack has made a believer out of me for the 240gr JHP for black bear.  I agree the harcast or FMJ would still be the ticket if penetration is a problem, but according to Hack penetration is not a problem even in several instances where shoulder or leg bones were encountered by the 240gr JHP.  Considering the vast numbers of bears he has shot, the fact that not one in his recollection ever ran off after being hit with the 240gr JHP is quite impressive.  I will save the hardcast for hogs and hope  I a larger gun than a 44mag for anything bigger than that.

Roll Tide

Offline Dusty Miller

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2271
  • Gender: Male
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2004, 10:56:19 AM »
Graybeard, what constitutes "hardcast" for you in this discussion.  Is BHN 15 hard enough, or do you advocate BHN 20 or higher?
When seconds mean life or death, the police are only minutes away!

Offline tony212

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2004, 02:19:21 PM »
I've been hunting bears with a revolver for some time now and would like to give my take on the whole solid versus hollow deal.  If you are using a premium hollow point like the Hornady XTP you will no doubt be able to kill any bear you run into.  Bears aren't as big as everyone thinks. Next time you see a full mount bear take a close look at it.  Straight through from shoulder to shoulder on an average bear is probably not much more than 18 or 20".  Todays modern controled expansion hollow points will easily penetrate a broadside bear, as will a well constructed jacket soft point.  Cast bullets will also penetrate any broadside bear. However, the cast bullet won't expand and do the same amount of damage a hollowpoint will do.  Let me give you an example:
    In 2000 we had a situation wherre a bear was wounded and had run into a standing corn field.  It was almost dark and being September and warm we didn't think we should leave it over night.  After waitng about 1/2 hour we headed into the corn to find the bear.  I was armed with a Colt Anaconda  loaded with cast SWC and my cousin had a 1911 with Winchester silvertips.  After about 100 yards of tracking I came upon the wounded bear.  I fired the Colt point blank into his back and into his vitals. The bear ran deeper into the corn.  The bear circled in the corn and my cousin shot him again with the 1911 from about 5 yards away.  The bear continued around the corn and I finally shot him a third time in the neck and killed him.  On examining the wounds we found the cast swc had made a perfect .44 cal hole clean through his chest cavity and had done very little damage.  The Winchester silvertip ahd hit bone and failed to penetrate.  
      If you plan on hunting bears with a handgun make sure the ammunition you choose is correct for the game you will be hunting.  Cast bullets are fine for shooting through any animal but you aren't going to get any expansion and you won't get much of a blood trail from a bear wounded with one. Bears have a lot of hair and fat that I have seen plug up  bullet holes so tight blood trails are nonexistant.  If you decide on hollow points choose one made for hunting and not personal defense. The silvertip hollow points were made to shoot people and are much to fragile to use on bears.  Trust me I have seen what they do first hand.   I have seen many bears killed with soft points and XTPs and the damage they do is significantly more than cast bullets.  Also, I have never found one in a bear. All have penetrated completely. As I write this I'm thinking of the upcoming bear season  which begins September 1st. I'll be out there like I do every year and My Colt will be loaded with Hornady XTPs.
Tony212

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26945
  • Gender: Male
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2004, 06:36:13 PM »
Quote
Graybeard, what constitutes "hardcast" for you in this discussion. Is BHN 15 hard enough, or do you advocate BHN 20 or higher?


I don't have a hardness tester so BHN numbers aren't something I can easily toss around and be sure about. To me wheel weights and harder is hard cast. I use wheel weights, linotype, foundry type and mixtures of these. Most of the bullets I cast are of linotype or a mixture of foundry type and wheel weights which seems based on weight to be about same hardness.

As a for instance bullets that are supposed to weight 255 grains from Lyman #2 alloy weight 242 from my alloy. Bullets supposed to weight 325 weight 318 after being lubed and gas checked.

And no in spite of all the stories I've heard to the contrary these bullets do not shatter except when they hit steel.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18269
44 mag load for black bear
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2004, 11:51:09 PM »
I too have taken a few bears with rifles handguns and bows like was said there not as bullet proof as some would have you think. But I have seen failures on bear and pigs with jhp bullets. In a perfect situation with perfect bullet placement a hp will probably kill a bear quicker then a cast. But everything is not allways perfect. Especially if your hunting with dogs. Sometimes you have to take a shot that isnt broadside into the rib cage. Personally ill take a cast bullet everytime for hunting anything. I know that even when the shot requires the bullet to go in at an odd angle its going to reach the vitals and after extensive penetration testing of just about every jacketed bullet not many can be counted on to do it.  A good cast bullet with a hardness of 15 or better at 1000 fps or better will every time.  Id like to introduce you to a buddy of mine that guides pig hunters on his property and show you the scar on his leg from 87 stitches that he got from a boar he had to go after that was shot broadside in the shoulder by a 41 mag xtp Bullet was recovered flattened out on the shoulder bone. He finally killed it at point blank range with his 500 linebaugh. He now offers any handgun hunter that shows up there with jacketed bullets a loner gun!! Not to dissagree with some of you that have had positive experinces with them but ive seen them fail and have personaly tracked bear wounded with them and its not alot of fun.
blue lives matter