Author Topic: Surplus ammo split necks, primers, and cases. Harmful?  (Read 597 times)

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Offline His lordship.

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Surplus ammo split necks, primers, and cases. Harmful?
« on: August 12, 2004, 01:28:29 PM »
I have encountered split cases, and burst primers for years on infrequent occasions with military surplus ammo.  I had shot a batch of Turkish 8 mm ammo today that had between 50%-30% split necks, dated 1947.  A few weeks ago, Turkish again, but dated 1931, significant primer bursts, but no split necks.  Yet, most of the Turkish ammo I have previously used has been good about not bursting.

I had purchased 2 boxes of early 1950's vintage Yugoslavian ammo when I bought this Mauser 2 years ago, and the primer leaks around the primer to case seal was really bad.  I had read an article that this kind of thing can cause circular erosion on the bolt face over time.

I had some Japanese surplus 6.5, and some British .303 WW 2 vintage that had occasional burst cases.  It seems to me that this is not good as it causes a pressure problem in the chamber, and how about any gas cutting due to the flame coming out of the case?

Is this a harmful problem?  I am thinking of handloading my Yugo Mauser after this batch of Turk ammo is used up partly because of the split cases.

What do you guys think?

Thanks.

Offline Mikey

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Surplus ammo split necks, primers, and case
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2004, 03:51:01 AM »
Chris D:  I think ya oughta go buy yourself a bunch of Sellier and Bellot (S&B) 8mm Mauser ball and then some of their hunting ammo.  Both carry 196 gn bullets, are reloadable and excellent quality ammo.  Then you can really enjoy that 8mm.

Lots of fellas have had problems with the older turkish ammo or the older mil-surp stuff, and the problems are as you describe.  

Yes, the corrosiveness of the primers will etch your bolt face and the blowback may leak into other parts of the rifle you rarely get into when you are cleaning them.  

That S&B ammo is great.  New production, non-corrosive and reloadable.  Although you may be able to save a few pennies on the older mil-surp stuff, ya'll get what ya pay for.  Mikey.

Offline His lordship.

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I used to do that with my Jap calibers too.
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2004, 05:29:49 AM »
I used to handload for my Jap 6.5 and 7.7 by buying loaded Norma ammo and then reloading with the Hornady bullets.  Worked well as I would download them for plinking and less recoil.

I have heard that the Sellier and Bellot brass is only good for about 2-3 reloadings, I usually chuck my brass after about 5 loadings as I don't have the tools and case trimmer to go beyond that, I don't mind it if I can get 5 loadings out of my .243 or 30-06 brass.

Would I be better off using Winchester or Remington brand brass, or do you think I could get 4 loadings out of the Sellier stuff?

This rifle is an unissued Yugo Model 48 rifle that I would like to take care of so that is why the case splits and primer bursts are bothersome.  I have seen some beatup Czech Model 24s around, I suppose it would be ok to shoot grungy ammo through one of those, but not a like-new Mauser.

Thanks.

Offline 1911crazy

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Surplus ammo split necks, primers, and case
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2004, 03:56:41 PM »
Chris;   I picked up 1,800rds of yugo 8mm ammo from "SOG" (southern ohio gun)  it was $147 delivered.                 BigBill

Offline cam69conv

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Surplus ammo split necks, primers, and case
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2004, 06:34:59 PM »
Chris,

Winchester carries 8mm mauser factory loads...Used to buy it all the time..Make a whopper of a deer knocker downer lol...Have fun
You want a divorce if I go hunting today??? Well sorry ta see ya go...Was nice knowin ya..Dont let tha door hit ya where tha good lord split ya :D

Offline kevin.303

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Surplus ammo split necks, primers, and case
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2004, 06:58:18 PM »
what is it that causes ammo to do this? i had some .303 ball from india or pakistan( i'd hafta go check the cases and i don't want to get up) and it was real bad for blown primers and split necks. kicked real hard too and had trouble unlocking the bolt. i figured it wasn't safe and got rid of it after 20 rounds or so.
" oh we didn't sink the bismarck, and we didn't fight at all, we spent our time in Norfolk and we really had a ball. chasing after women while our ship was overhauled, living it up on grapefruit juice and sick bay alcohol"

Offline 7mm MAGNUM

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Surplus ammo split necks, primers, and case
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2004, 04:36:19 PM »
kevin.303,...those symptoms are usually due to too much pressure in the barrel.  :shock:

There are 2 different types of 8mm ammo out there,...(.318 &.323) are you using the correct one for your gun?  :eek:

If your unsure I'd slug that barrel and find out before you loose something important :eek:  :eek:

Man,.. I'm sorry Kevin your shooting a enfield .303,.... I just caught that  :oops:
Shoot Straight & Stay Safe!   :D

Terry Webster

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Offline cam69conv

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Surplus ammo split necks, primers, and case
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2004, 07:19:01 PM »
Ahem 7mm Magnum...I have a .303 british mark 2 # 4 that at 200 to 350 yards Id put up against anything you want to shoot there buddy...Dont knockum...If ya get one that wasnt shot all to hell they are a fantastic action and barrel...At 200 I shoot 3/4 moa all day brother
You want a divorce if I go hunting today??? Well sorry ta see ya go...Was nice knowin ya..Dont let tha door hit ya where tha good lord split ya :D

Offline 7mm MAGNUM

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Surplus ammo split necks, primers, and case
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2004, 02:22:11 AM »
cam69conv,...  I don't know where the hell your comments are coming from or even why.  :evil:

I was apologizing to Kevin due to me thinking he was shooting a 8mm and and experiencing the problems he was having. After I posted notice I it was the .303   :roll: but opted to leave my post up due to the two different size 8mm rounds.

Oh and by the way I own 2 British Enfield .303's myself and they are great shooters.
Shoot Straight & Stay Safe!   :D

Terry Webster

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Offline His lordship.

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Enfields and the splits.
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2004, 08:27:59 AM »
I had read that the brass gets brittle over time, and storage conditions are a major player in how the stuff ends up eventually in regards to reliable primers and case condition.  The Turk 8 mm is the correct type for my Yugo Mauser Model 48.  The different diameter bullet that was mentioned was initially used on the 1888 Commission rifle, and then the Germans changed to the different bore, as well as a pointed bullet, and used that in their famous Mauser 1898.

I have thought about getting a Commission rifle for historical collection purposes, most of the ones I have seen are really beat up.  And if there is an "S" on the reciever  it is supposed to be safe to shoot with the newer ammo.  I have also heard from another source that only the original type of 8 mm should be used in all 1888 Commission rifles, and Old Western Scrounger has the early type of ammo, as they make their own brass.  If in doubt, do research on your 1888 rifle, and use the right ammo.  The American Rifleman magazine did a recent article on that gun and said it was not reliable, so the Germans did not use it very long.

I too had a 1948 vintage Enfield #4 rifle a few years ago, one of the most accurate guns I ever owned.  The feed reliability was not very good, and in Clifford Shore's book (British army sniper and instructor in WW 2) he mentioned they had problems with the clips on theirs too.  Fun shooter, but I had split cases and burst primers in .303 with the old WW 2 surplus ammo as well, I mostly used the boxes of Pakistani surplus ammo dated 1960's.  Sold the gun as I thought it had mechanical problems with the barrel and clip feed.  That design has a notorious defect with the top hand guard moving forward and binding up on the front site, I replaced the screw and gave good torque to keep it steady on the nose cap assembly, it still would shift forward impacting the front sight with eventual repeat firing, odd how the British never fixed that goof.