Need some Lever Action advice

[Big Tom]

Hi Guys! I'm new to this forum....usually over on Turnbolts or reloading.

I have hunted deer and bear for over 40 years, mostly in the extreme northern midwestern forests of the upper peninsula of Michigan. My Dad bought a Winchester mod. 94 in 1945 and used it to kill whitetails every year until his recent death. I, on the other hand, have always had bolt actions. Well, I cannot deny the "lure of the lever" anymore!

Heres my delimma....I want enough "thump" for Deer, Black Bear and possibly a heavy timber Elk hunt some day(although I have a .300 WBY), but I'll mostly carry it for still hunting the dense cedar swamps that hold big Whitetail bucks up here with open sights.

My other deer rifle is a scoped Sako 75 in .308 which I handload 165gr noslers.

Do I go with a BLR in .308 or .358....Marlin 444..... the new Winny Timber in .450 Marlin.....I really like the looks of a Winchester 94 Traditional CW in 44 mag too. :?(like my Dad's)

OOI! Too many choices and not enough experience!    Your advice is appreciated!

[Rick Teal]

My deer rifle is a BLR in .358 Winchester, so it's pretty obvious what my advice is. :wink:

I hunt the thick stuff in Ontario, and I'd say my average shot is about 30 yds, however, the bush occasionally opens up at a burn, beaver meadow or muskeg swamp.  In these situations the .308 and .358 have definite advantages.  

If you choose the .308, you could possibly use the same ammo as with your bolt gun, though my choice is a 180 grain expanding bullet at about 2470 fps.  Right now I use 220 grain bullets of my own manufacture in my BLR at about 2350 fps.  I get bang/flop performance with this load on deer as I did when I hunted with .30 calibre at the velocity I recomend above.

I'm at a point where I can't pick up open sights as easily as I should, so I use red dot sights, and they mount easily on the BLR.

[ktw]

I hunt the same ground you do.  I got tired of lugging around a 9lb, 400 yard deer rifle for what always ended up being a 15 to 75 yard shot.

I picked up a 94 trapper in 45 colt.  It's been a pleasure to shoot and a pleasure to carry and I have a lot of confidence in being able to put down deer out to 150 yds.

[jhm]

Big Tom :  I spent the first 34 years of my life in Mich. and hunted from the Mio area north thru the Upper, most of that time was spent with a Savage model 99 in hand, and if memory serves me right there were alot of them in the upper Mich. area, more so then here in central Ar.  my choice would be to look and see if a Savage in the 358 Win. cal. can be located for the heavier stuff you want to hunt, my favorite would be the ever popular 300 Savage which is what I used, good luck and remember half the pleasure of gun ownership is the shopping you get to do and all the guns you get to handle.    JIM

[handirifle]

Tom
With all you hunt, I think the Marlin in 444 is top choice.  Heavier bullets than the 240gr on anything above deer though.  Loaded wth 260-300gr it'll be the most effective caliber you mentioned.  The Marlin is a very reliable rifle.  I don't think accuracy is an issue for any of the rifles you mentioned.

That said, the idea of the BLR using the same ammo as you Sako has a lot of merrit.

[John Y Cannuck]

Surprized there has been no mention of the 45-70 yet. Load it down to factory levels for deer and black bear, load it up to near 458WM for the big stuff.
Get it in an 1886 Winchester, or Marlin Guide gun, and nothing will stand in your way.

[Harry Snippe]

Surprized there has been no mention of the 45-70 yet. Load it down to factory levels for deer and black bear, load it up to near 458WM for the big stuff.
Get it in an 1886 Winchester, or Marlin Guide gun, and nothing will stand in your way.

From one Ont. to another
Well bud, If you ever want to travel a hour and more North I let you work my fifty year old 35 Remington Marlin. It is a real sweet heart.
The 45/70 goes do well in the bush also , but I will second the 358 BLR since it is flatter shooting and a lot less recoil.
Harry

[TennesseeNuc]

Tom,
Take a look at a Marlin guide gun in 45-70.  The 45-70 is a versatile cartridge that is up to just about any task.  The guide gun is quick handleing, easy to clean and accurate.
This might give you one more option to choose from.
Best,
TnNuc

[Big Tom]

Thanks Guys!
I ran into a near mint Winchester Big Bore XTR in .356 today for 325$ and a 9422 Legacy(.22 Mag) NIB for 400$. I hope the prices are decent cause I took em BOTH home! :lol:

Now I've got to research the .356. To me it looks just like a rimmed .35 Rem.  Any comments on the .356?

[Rick Teal]

BigTom:

I can't comment on the .22 - just don't know much about them.  However, it sounds like a good deal on the .356.

Actually, the .356 is a rimmed .358.  I'd say it's at least a 200 yd gun, and probably more.  If you use factory ammo, its best to stock up when you can.  Winchester does short runs, and then stops production 'till the supply is depleted.  It's not a cartridge I'd like to try to find ammo for on the night before the hunt.

It's not loaded as hot as the .358, though several handloaders have told me they can get it to equal the .358.  Apparently the cartridge brass is a little thicker than is standard on the .358, and the shorter Winchester action is supposed to mean that heavier bullets have to be seated deeper and therefore take up powder room in the case.  

It shoots flat nosed bullets because of the tubular magazine - this causes a radical drop in velocity at long range.

I wanted to buy one a few years back, but my funds were a little low at the time. :cry:

Good luck with your new rifle - I think you've made a good choice.

Rick

[Big Tom]

I saw at least two or three boxes of 200 gr .356 Winchester ammo sitting on the shelf...I guess I should grab em from the old posts I'm reading. :wink:

[Lloyd Smale]

another yupper her Tom. Im sure you have seen many a deer shot with a 3030 and they still work great at the ranges we usually hunt up here. If i was to recomend a gun for you to buy it would probably be a guide gun in .444 or 4570 but that .356 is a great gun in a great caliber and at that price id jump on it!

[gizdol]

Have seen some posts about the Puma 92 in 454 Casull.  I also know that it'll chamber the 45 Long Colt.  I have heard that handgun hunting for deer in 45 Colt isn't recommended, but how would the 45 Colt do coming out of the Puma carbine for deerhunting?  What cartridge would you recommend?

[John Y Cannuck]

No personal experience with the Puma, but from what I've read, the 45 colt can be loaded to levels approaching the Cassull in it. Making it a formidable short range cartridge.
I always find it comical how modern hunters always figure the old stuff some how doesn't work anymore. Millions of deer fell to the 44-40 in it's black powder format. Why would the 45 be less formidable? Deer have not grown armour plating that I've seen.

[ktw]

 I have heard that handgun hunting for deer in 45 Colt isn't recommended, but how would the 45 Colt do coming out of the Puma carbine for deerhunting?  What cartridge would you recommend?

The problem with the 45 colt, particularly the anemic "colt and clones" factory loadings, and the 45-70 in "don't beat the crap out of you in a light rifle" loads is that they have rainbow trajectories compared to modern smokeless cartridges (308, 30-06, 270win, etc).  

Due to the vast majority of hunters being unable to accurately estimate ranges, it can be very difficult to hit anything with a 45 colt/light 45-70 out beyond the 150-200 yard range even though the bullet still retains plenty of energy for a clean kill well beyond that distance.

If you are willing to limit the distances at which you are willing to take shots the 45 colt makes a fine deer cartridge.  At these same ranges the 44 mag, 30-30 and many others are also good cartridge choices.  If you want the ability to shoot a bit further, without having to hone your range estimation skills, you need to choose a cartridge that has a flatter trajectory.

[Rick Teal]

Big Tom:

I just joined the club myself.

I've been trying to get rid of this Remington 600 for years, and took it to a gun show hoping to make a trade.  I toured the whole show (and it was a big one by Canadian standards), and only saw one gun that interested me - a '94AE in .307.  The guy was asking $490 for it but wasn't interested in a trade.  

On the way out I passed another table that I'd already checked out, and told the guy (who I'd met before) that I hadn't seen anything that caught my fancy.  A couple of minutes later I was finishing up in the washroom before driving home, and the second guy came in and in passing asked what I had been looking for.  I told him something like a .356 or .375.  He said that he'd just taken a '94 AE in .356 in as a trade. :eek:   We went back to his table and after a little talk the deal was done.

The gun's in great shape and has bases already attached.  I also got a box and a half of factory ammo.  I can now start working on (and testing) a flat tipped version of my bullet. :idea:

Rick

[Big Tom]

Good luck for you Rick! :grin:

I am still waiting to pick up my .356. I ordered a new 9422 legacy and will do both the firearm transfers at once....probably within the next couple days. Then I will start setting them up and can give some range reports.

I will be watching closely for reports on the Timber model. It reminds me of a Mod 71 (which I love and can't afford! :cry: )

[Big Tom]

Big Tom:

I just joined the club myself.


The gun's in great shape and has bases already attached.  I also got a box and a half of factory ammo.  I can now start working on (and testing) a flat tipped version of my bullet. :idea:

Rick

Hey Rick! picked up the .356 AE today and SURPRISE! :eek:

It is engraved "Winchester 1894-1994." I'm not sure if it has more value but it is a centennial model. I looked it over very closely and am really pleased. This puppy has been fired very little if at all. Cant wait until Saturday to try it out! :biggun:

[Gowge]

Thanks Guys!
I ran into a near mint Winchester Big Bore XTR in .356 today for 325$ and a 9422 Legacy(.22 Mag) NIB for 400$. I hope the prices are decent cause I took em BOTH home! :lol:

Now I've got to research the .356. To me it looks just like a rimmed .35 Rem.  Any comments on the .356?

Wow!  Great price on the Big Bore.  That .356 offers a ton of possibilities!   Here's just one....

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/375-356.htm

There's a huge range of 35 caliber bullets available that can be used in your .356 Winchester.    Should be a lotta' fun sorting out a favorite load.  The HEAVY 35 Remington loads on this link below should work in your Big Bore, too...  (280/290gr @ 2100fps)...

http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/paco/remmar.htm

GOOD LUCK!   :wink: