Author Topic: Are you concerned an intruder might use your weapon?  (Read 1610 times)

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Offline SaveFerris

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Are you concerned an intruder might use your weapon?
« on: August 16, 2004, 05:27:33 AM »
Not when you're already home of course but is it a valid concern that you could come home to find some burglar brandishing your own weapon from off your nightstand?

I dont have CCW in my state.

Offline jhm

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Are you concerned an intruder might use you
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2004, 08:07:58 AM »
Nope, all that I am not carrying are LOCKED up in the safe, now if he gets the safe open I am going to be concerned but how many normal house thieves are going to go thru all that trouble when they can go down the road to my neighbors and get his guns. :D    JIM

Offline Lawdog

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Are you concerned an intruder might use you
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2004, 10:25:48 AM »
Ditto to what Jim said.  First a burglar has to get past the dogs in the yard.  Then the alarm system.  Then the dogs in the house.  Then defeat the locks getting into the safe room.  Then the safe's themselves.  Lawdog
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Offline SaveFerris

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hmm
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2004, 11:51:58 AM »
well I dont have a gun safe, and i live in a small apartment. I just have a 12 guage and probabally a 357 soon. Is it practical to trigger lock them every day i go out?

Offline jgalar

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Are you concerned an intruder might use you
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2004, 12:25:00 PM »
You can put a lock on the shotgun and buy a small lockbox for the handgun. Unlock them when you're home and lock them up when you go out. Once you get in the habit its not hard to do. You put on pants when you get up in the morning with out checking a to do list don't you.

Offline bgjohn

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Are you concerned an intruder might use you
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2004, 12:43:47 PM »
Quote from: Lawdog
Ditto to what Jim said.  First a burglar has to get past the dogs in the yard.  Then the alarm system.  Then the dogs in the house.  Then defeat the locks getting into the safe room.  Then the safe's themselves.  Lawdog
 :D


 :shock: Do you use a belt and wear suspenders to keep your pants from falling down? And use thumbtacks too? :?
JM
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Offline SaveFerris

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thanks
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2004, 01:59:37 PM »
Thanks for the input guys, I didnt want to seem strange for being somewhat worried about leaving my guns at home where someone could use them.

Offline Bikenut

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Re: Are you concerned an intruder might use your weapon?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2004, 04:27:53 PM »
Quote from: SaveFerris
Not when you're already home of course but is it a valid concern that you could come home to find some burglar brandishing your own weapon from off your nightstand?

I dont have CCW in my state.


Am I to understand that you leave your loaded gun unattended and just laying somewhere not locked up when you leave home?

I don't mean to offend... yet anyone who does such a thing is being extremely irresponsible .... and foolish!

No CCW? Can't take it with you when you leave? Unload that thing and lock it up before leaving or odds are you, or some other innocent person, will eventually face that gun in the hands of a burgler... either when you come home, a visitor knocks at your door while the burgler is busy burgling, or the thief uses that stolen gun so generously provided in a loaded condition while committing his next crime.

Guns left unattended absolutely NEED to be unloaded and locked up! Even a cheap gun cabinet ($100.00 to $150.00) is wiser than nothing since generally a thief isn't going to spend a lot of time and noise trying to break into it.

Now I'm going to ask a stupid question.................. Why is your "house" gun not on your person while home? A CCW isn't needed to carry inside your home. And when things go bad it may not be possible to get from one end of your house to the other where the gun is. I carry all the time, even while inside my own house because I know just because I'm inside my house doesn't mean I'm safe. At first glance that appears paranoid... but then... see the part about not getting from one end of the house to the other where the gun is. Now a days home invasion while the owners are home is commonplace.

This is just me but I can't see the wisdom in having a gun for protection if I can't get to the thing when needed. And the only place I can always get to it is if the gun is on me when I need it. And check your state's laws on this but most states allow for carrying without a permit anywhere on your own land so you might be able to carry all the time as long as you are still "home" on your own land... inside and outside the house.
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Offline SaveFerris

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Re: Are you concerned an intruder might use your weapon?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2004, 05:06:45 PM »
Quote from: Bikenut
Quote from: SaveFerris
Not when you're already home of course but is it a valid concern that you could come home to find some burglar brandishing your own weapon from off your nightstand?

I dont have CCW in my state.


Am I to understand that you leave your loaded gun unattended and just laying somewhere not locked up when you leave home?

I don't mean to offend... yet anyone who does such a thing is being extremely irresponsible .... and foolish!

No CCW? Can't take it with you when you leave? Unload that thing and lock it up before leaving or odds are you, or some other innocent person, will eventually face that gun in the hands of a burgler... either when you come home, a visitor knocks at your door while the burgler is busy burgling, or the thief uses that stolen gun so generously provided in a loaded condition while committing his next crime.

Guns left unattended absolutely NEED to be unloaded and locked up! Even a cheap gun cabinet ($100.00 to $150.00) is wiser than nothing since generally a thief isn't going to spend a lot of time and noise trying to break into it.

Now I'm going to ask a stupid question.................. Why is your "house" gun not on your person while home? A CCW isn't needed to carry inside your home. And when things go bad it may not be possible to get from one end of your house to the other where the gun is. I carry all the time, even while inside my own house because I know just because I'm inside my house doesn't mean I'm safe. At first glance that appears paranoid... but then... see the part about not getting from one end of the house to the other where the gun is. Now a days home invasion while the owners are home is commonplace.

This is just me but I can't see the wisdom in having a gun for protection if I can't get to the thing when needed. And the only place I can always get to it is if the gun is on me when I need it. And check your state's laws on this but most states allow for carrying without a permit anywhere on your own land so you might be able to carry all the time as long as you are still "home" on your own land... inside and outside the house.


Well my main housegun is my 12guage. I lock it with the trigger lock it came with (remington) when i leave the house.

I wouldnt just 'leave out' any guns. they're out of sight and i dont have any kids in the house. Right now my routine is to unlock the gun when im home and lock it up when im gone (using the installed trigger lock mechanism) I was just seeing if im being paranoid about that whole thing. Do you people do the same thing--except putting guns in the safe when you leave.

Offline twodollarpistol

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Re: Are you concerned an intruder might use your weapon?
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2004, 12:47:10 AM »
Quote from: Bikenut

Am I to understand that you leave your loaded gun unattended and just laying somewhere not locked up when you leave home?

Am I to understand that anyone doesn't lock there house when they leave? Aint that lock up? Aint everything in the house locked up at that time? Assuming, of course that there are no children or other un qualified persons in the house. In not advocating leaving loaded firearms laying around in the open but it occurs to me that someone who goes to the trouble to break into my house would probably have his own gun any way, so him finding mine and using it against me is a moot point. Please dont misunderstand , I dont leave my "loaded" guns laying around, but I do have a couple that are on display in my home. It's just a comfort to me to see them when I enter my den. All my other guns are locked away though. I dont keep my other possessions in a safe either. Thats why I have a house. To keep my "stuff" in. My ammo is however always locked up and securely kept separately. Except, of course, for my carry weapons.  A cheep Wally world gun safe would slow a determined burglar down for about 45 seconds I would imagine, so if you cant afford a quality safe or if you dont have room for one, gun locks and a well hidden gun, is better than nothing. Also check the gun laws in your state. You may be able to legally carry in your vehicle without a permit and you could carry your hand gun with you. That way you would not be entering your home at night empty handed. Of course that brings up the problem of securing your weapon when you leave your car. Sometimes we just have to do the very best we can and trust in God for the rest.
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Offline jimmyp50

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Are you concerned an intruder might use you
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2004, 06:52:36 AM »
tough post.  I lock most in the gun safe but I do leave one of those russian double barrels out, broken open of course in the bedroom closet.  I guess if it gets stolen I am out $250.00, life is full of choices.  My kids are grown, my wife knows how to use the simple double barrel gun, but cannot hit beans with a pistol.  If a burglar steals it and shoots me with it I guess he will have to discuss it with my little male pit bull on the way to the closet to find it. Jimmyp
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Offline Lawdog

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Are you concerned an intruder might use you
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2004, 07:02:41 AM »
bgjohn,

Actually the home security alarm and lock system was a requirement by the insurance/bonding company for the business insurance/bond.  They save me quite a bit on my business/home owners insurance.  They have paid for themselves a couple of times over.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline Bikenut

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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2004, 11:54:12 AM »
TwoDollarPistol?

I also have guns on display in my home... but they all are missing at least one vital part that makes them unusable. That "vital part" regardless of it is the bolt or the firing pin.. is locked in the safe. A couple of them also have trigger locks although that doesn't matter with the firing pin in the safe.

Quite frankly, locking the house doesn't do much to deter a thief unless there are steel doors with steel framework and bars on the windows. A burgler can pop a normal door in less than 3 seconds with a pry bar and a window breaks quickly and easily. Some windows are extremely easy to open without breaking simply by working the framework to bypass the little twisty locks.

To be frank.... if a person owns a gun they have already figured out all the different places to hide it... and so has the burgler. All those places are where that thief will look first so relying on hiding a gun is pointless.

I understand the anger, even outrage, that just because a person owns a gun they have to take extra measures to secure the firearm in order to foil a low life thief. Yet those extra measures are just part of the responsibility a person takes upon themselves when they decide to own a gun. It isn't fair but it is the correct thing to do.

It is obvious from my posts that I consider a gun left unattended and not locked up... especially if loaded... to be akin to a mortal sin. As it should be to every responsible gun owner. However, I hope my posts come across as addressing the problem of unattended guns and not as if I'm attacking any individuals.
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Offline SaveFerris

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Are you concerned an intruder might use you
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2004, 01:42:20 PM »
The factory-installed trigger locks (for shame!) should be sufficient right? Its not likely the thief will bring one of every gun manufacturer lock key when they dont even know I have a gun in the first place, right?

Offline Bikenut

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« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2004, 03:51:32 PM »
Saveferris? Trigger locks will most likely prevent the thief from shooting you with your own gun......... unless he has a phillips screwdriver and just removes the trigger guard and the trigger lock right along with it... or breaks the synthetic trigger guard. The thought of someone treating my guns in that fashion causes the bile to rise in my throat... but a thief doesn't care about your guns except how much he can sell them for or how much dope he can trade them for. Although the internal locks that Taurus offers aren't so easily bypassed............

Not everyone can drop $1000.00 or more for a gun safe that will hold both pistols and long guns.... but, as mentioned by someone else earlier, a relatively cheap metal gun cabinet stuck way back in the corner of a closet and bolted to the floor and walls is an alternative to a safe. Being inside the closet makes it hard for the thief to swing an ax or to have room to work a pry bar making it quite difficult and time consuming to break into the cabinet. Thieves don't like to have to spend a lot of time, or make a lot of noise, while on the job.............

One of the legal tenets about gun ownership is that the owner is responsible to maintain "control" of the firearm. Normally that is thought of as controlling the gun while using it or carrying it.... but legally that definition extends to maintaining an amount of control that a reasonable person would be expected to......... whether the gun is actually on their person or left at home. Now exactly how that would apply to just a trigger lock probably depends on the circumstances of the theft, if the gun was left out, if it was loaded, if it was subsequently used in a violent crime... and a bunch of other things... including how sharp the opposing attorney was and if the judge's wife was "congenial" the night before the trial.

When all is said and done though... the safest thing is to lock the gun inside something very difficult to get into with the ammo also locked inside something different from where the gun is.

Yes, it's a pain to come home... get the gun... get the ammo... load it..... then do the reverse each and every time a person leaves home. But that honestly is the responsible thing to do. Not to mention the safest.

And I apologise for jumping on your first post with both feet....... I just get a mite excited at the thought of a gun left unattended.....
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Offline twodollarpistol

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Are you concerned an intruder might use you
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2004, 12:40:20 AM »
Mr Bikenut, I think the main point I was trying to make is that no matter what we do, and no matter how much we care, a determined and resourceful burglar can, and often will, overcome whatever we do. Even huge and modern bank vaults, with God only knows what type of security system, get broken into fairly often. Im no lawyer, but I would think that a firearm, with the locking device furnished with the gun properly installed, And put away in a reasonable and responsible, manner would satisfy our liability. If not, gun safes would be packed in the box with the gun. but the law only requires the locking device. Perhaps some one else can shed some light on this point. As far as the firearms I have on display is concerned, I also remove a very necessary component--the ammo. Unless the burglar has a hardware store assortment of ammo with him, or can locate my locked up separately supply, my unloaded firearm is no more use to him than a rock. And like I said he probably has a gun of his own anyway to use against me, and that was the original issue. When I leave my home, everything I own is put away and secured and under lock and key. No safe, cabinet, hiding place or locking device or security system you can name will guarantee that when I return it will be as I left it. Just aint no guarantees in life, 'cept taxes and death. And not necessarily in that order.
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Offline Brett

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Re: Are you concerned an intruder might use your weapon?
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2004, 04:29:27 AM »
Quote from: SaveFerris
Not when you're already home of course but is it a valid concern that you could come home to find some burglar brandishing your own weapon from off your nightstand?

I dont have CCW in my state.


Your concern is quite valid. A personal acquaintance of mine was shot in the head with his own .357 mag. when he came home one evening and interrupted a burglary.  Thankfully the good Lord was with him and he has fully recovered after a very long and painful period of time.

You should secure any firearm that you cannot take with you when you leave home.  Not everyone can afford a high dollar safe or alarm system but my advice is do the most that you can.  Check with your local sherifs dept.  Many participate in the NSSF Project Childsafe Program which distributes free cable locks to anyone who ask for them.  They won't keep your gun from being stolen but at least it should prevent someone from using your gun on you if you should walk in on them burglarizing your home.
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Offline les hemby

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Are you concerned an intruder might use you
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2004, 07:58:42 AM »
To me personally i have a safe and dogs, but with just a shotgun and 357 i would lock them in the trunk of the car or in a case behind the seat of a truck and bring them in and out with me. My new house has a security system but old one didnt. I may be overly suspicious but i really like to have a gun on me when i walk into my house after no one has been there, not necessarily in my hand but at least in small of back holster. take them with you. My safe is by my bed. I unlock it while i'm home and lock it when i leave. Like Chris and several others have suggested a 100$ homack from wal-mart is better than nothing but if they are with you,then you dont run into a situation where you are at door, crook is in room and safe is on other side of house :eek:

Offline IntrepidWizard

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Are you concerned an intruder might use you
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2004, 08:07:59 AM »
Interesting Gentlemen,here over 12-15 guns are loaded all the time and most in the open and we do not lock the house,the gate yes ,also I carry,the one time I found someone up here he and and a buddy were on the verge of meeting their maker and were turned in and that was over 25 years ago.I would not like to live like some you have to.
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Offline bearblade

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« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2004, 10:35:22 AM »
IntrepidWizard:  I know the feeling.  I'm originally from the middle of nowhere and I moved to SoCal.  I now havbe to lock the door to go to the store 2 blocks away (or to put it in country terms "the other side of the forty").  It is amazing the fear that people live in.  I went to a Taco Bell/Pizza Hut (interesting combination) in a pretty bad neighborhood of LA.  The cashiers had 4+ inches of bullet-proof glass btween them and us.  To get our food, there was a box in the glass that had a door on either side.  We even made it a point to sit on the opposite side of the restaurant so we could watch my friend's Camaro.  I kept my hand in my jacket pocket with my knife ready to flip out.  We aren't even that paranoid in Iraq.

Offline Lawdog

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« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2004, 08:33:51 AM »
As 'bearblade' stated it all depends on where you live.  I, thank the good Lord, get to live in the "boondocks".  Depending on trigger locks to secure your firearms is wishful thinking.  Locks were made to keep honest people honest.  It is a shame that home break-ins are becoming more prevalent and that the perpetrators don’t care whether your home or not.  Locking up your weapons in a safe is not only being prudent but the best way to insure that you will not end up looking down the barrel of YOUR favorite firearm in the hands of another.  How I too long for the “good old days” when things like this were un-necessary.  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline papajohn428

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Are you concerned an intruder might use you
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2004, 11:17:54 AM »
Those who are familiar with the writings of John Taffin may have noted that he has DOZENS of loaded guns, scattered all over the house, not in plain sight but close at hand.  I can't fault his logic, if you need one, you need it now, not after you step into the "Safe Room".

I don't have as many guns as Taffin, but I have a half dozen scattered thru the house, none in plain sight.  I make a lot of my own furniture, which gives me the opportunity to design them to hold a handgun or two, that can be accessed quickly.  There are other options like "sidesaddle" holsters that hang off the hidden side of a bed or a sofa.  One friend has a secret hidey-hole next to his stove, with a .357 a foot away from where he stands to cook.  While carrying a handgun with you is preferable, it's not always feasible, especially if you're constantly going inside and outside in shorts and a t-shirt, like me.  

While you can't always be armed, especially in an idiotic state with no CCW provision (like Illinoise) you can at least be alert and aware of your surroundings.  When I get home, I'm looking for strange cars in the area, people I don't recognise (lookouts),  anything that looks different since I left.  I'm also blessed with one of the greatest assets you can have......nosy neighbors!   :grin:   Anything strange happens, they see it, and have even called the cops on me, when they saw me outside at 2:00am.  They apologised, but I told them I'd rather have to deal with cops than burglars, mother stabbers or father rapers!   :wink:

And as much as I dislike little yappy dogs, they're worth their weight in Alpo when someone's peeking in the windows at 3AM!

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If you can shoot home invaders, why can't you shoot Homeland Invaders?

Offline Old Griz

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Are you concerned an intruder might use you
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2004, 09:18:44 AM »
:cb2: Some of us apartment dwellers don't have the option of getting a nice big - and heavy - $1000+ safe. You can't get them up the narrow, turning stairwells. Many places sell them, but just try to get them to install one in an upatairs apartment! The cheap $100-150 sheet metal gun storage cabinets can be pried open with a big screwdriver. Plus if you live in an apartment you can't bolt them to the floor, or to a wall. So some of us just have to hope that locking up when we leave will be enough, and if not, have replacement insurance and good records!
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Offline SaveFerris

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Are you concerned an intruder might use you
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2004, 10:39:11 AM »
A gun safe is really not very practical. Do they make some kind of bike lock to lock a gun to a pipe or something? I know it probably sounds silly but at least the guy will stay there and not be effictively used.

Offline Brett

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« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2004, 11:06:17 AM »
They have small cable locks designed specifically for securing fire arms.  See my post above where I mention the NSSF Project ChildSafe Program.  The NSSF is working with many local police dept. to distribute these locks free to the public.  - Brett
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Offline Savage

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« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2004, 02:52:37 PM »
Most gunlocks are easily defeated. The best ones require no more that a pair of "Linesman's Pliers" or bolt cutters. A safe is much harder to compromise.
Savage
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Offline Brett

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« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2004, 03:23:07 PM »
Quote from: Savage
Most gunlocks are easily defeated. The best ones require no more that a pair of "Linesman's Pliers" or bolt cutters. A safe is much harder to compromise.
Savage


Very true, but as noted earlier a safe is not always an option.
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Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2004, 03:27:02 PM »
The house is never locked,and at least 7 guns are loaded and around at any given time.We NEVER LOCK THE HOUSE,we lock the gate and that is it other than I carry and have a rifle with me.Always be aware of your surroundings and alternatives.
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Offline Lawdog

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« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2004, 09:40:15 AM »
Even an apartment deweller can have a gun safe like this one.  It has an outside dimension of, 60H x 22W x 16D so it will fit through any door.  Go to http://www.securitybase.com/Web_store/ws400CS.cgi?page=safe/teton6022-1.html&cart_id=1040909103512993&store=safe&no_search=Y&ns=Y&dci= to view this gun safe.  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline Bikenut

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« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2004, 05:16:09 AM »
Quote from: IntrepidWizard
The house is never locked,and at least 7 guns are loaded and around at any given time.We NEVER LOCK THE HOUSE,we lock the gate and that is it other than I carry and have a rifle with me.Always be aware of your surroundings and alternatives.


Let me see... and I'm not knocking how you have your house prepared for intruders but I'm curious as to the logic involved.

You have 7 or more loaded guns strategicly placed... and I think that is a good thing.... but you leave the doors and windows unlocked. And right there is where I got lost... because to my mind if a person is concerned enough to have loaded guns easily available in case someone comes in... wouldn't it be prudent to make it difficult for someone to come in therefore giving plenty of warning so those guns can be quickly accessed? Now add the legalities involved... intruder gets shot but door was unlocked so there is no evidence of forced entry... that leaves your word against the bad guy (or the bad guy's family in court) that the bad guy wasn't invited in... making for a very tenable legal position for the home owner in court.

Yes, I'm very aware the whole idea is to survive the encounter and worry about court later... however it seems wise to at least try to stack the deck in favor of surviving court too. My house is closed up and locked up when no one is home and every night when we are home and asleep. Breaking in at night will alert us there is trouble... and checking for evidence of a break in when coming home before opening the house also gives us advance warning that something may be wrong.

IntrepidWizard? Please understand I'm not peeing on how you do things, nor am I aware of the legal status where you live... I'm just very curious why you don't feel locking the house is necessary?
The longer I live, the older I get.
Neither has anything to do with wisdom.