Brush buster

[The deerslayer]

Im going to buy a brush buster for the thick stuff. What lever would be better a 45/70 or a 30-30? Both are the same size

[oso45-70]

Fred722,
Me thinks the 45-70 best.

[leverfan]

Im going to buy a brush buster for the thick stuff. What lever would be better a 45/70 or a 30-30? Both are the same size

What are you planning on hunting?  Neither the 30-30, nor the 45-70, are really going to bust through the brush without deflecting, so get a gun that matches your hunting situation.  If you're hunting deer and similar sized game, get the 30-30, and your shoulder will thank you.  If bear and elk are likely to be in your sights, get the 45-70, or maybe a .356, .358, .444, or any one of a number of good rounds available in lever guns.  A good .307 would leave me feeling ready for anything that the lower 48 states have to offer.

[Oldtimer]

Two ideas for you to chew on:
1. If nothing bigger than deer is on your menu, then think about a model 92 in 44-40.  The gun is trimmer than a model 94 and the cartridge is up to the task, and even better if you reload.
B. As a brushbuster, try a model 99 in .243 Winchester.  The smaller the diameter of the bullet, the less likely it is to run into brush and be deflected, as there is no cartridge/bullet combination that will go through brush undeflected.

P.S.
III. Buy them all and see if you can tell the difference.

[Graybeard]

If the brush you are hoping to "bust" is further than 10'-15' from the animal you're gonna miss or wound about 95% of the time. Inside 10' you have a fair chance of killing the animal but there are no guarantees. Brush busting cartridges and bullets are myths. If you want to hit the game you best be missing the brush. So the best brush buster is really a super accurate rifle and good scope to allow you to thread the needle thru brush to hit game.

[Snowshoe]

Graybeard is right about brush busting, but I like the .30-30 with open sights or a peep sight, for the thick brush. I realy like my pre 64 model 94, and plan on using it most of this upcoming season. I started deer hunting with a Savage model 340 in .30-30 and open sights, and still use that rifle from time to time. I also hunted a few years with a .45-70, and found it very effective, but a shoulder injury ended that. I found that the .30-30 got far more use, than the .45-70, partly because of ammo cost, but mostly it was the abuse.

[jimmyp50]

I live in Georgia, and our lease has lots of brush.  Farthest deer I have ever taken was 136 steps.  I have never shot through any brush, and I have let a lot of deer that I have seen in the brush just walk. My hunting ethics prevent me from taking a shot where I do not have a clear picture of my target and am assured that I am going to actually kill what I shoot at.  I do hunt sometimes with a Marlin 44 magnum rifle which has a 1.5 x 5 power scope on it. Turned down to 1.5x it seems to work just fine when shots are limited to 15-50 yards. It is easier and lighter to carry when I am getting into one of my stands "in the brush". The white box winchester 240 grain softpoints shoot well from this gun. It also in my opinion recoils a lot less than a 30-06 and makes less noise.  No deer that I have shot with it has ever survived more than one shot, and it produces a good blood trail for the 25-30 yards or so that some have gone.  I had a Marlin 1895 (the long one) 45-70, it was very accurate, but the gun was heavy, loud, long, and over powered for what I wanted it for. I also had one of the little short 44 magnums with the ports which was again very loud when you shot it.  I spoke to another man who had the guide gun version of the 45-70 with the ports and he just hated shooting it at a deer due to the noise.  I guess I have gotten beyond the glamour of the latest gun fads and just enjoy hunting.  I killed 5 deer last year, we have 13 I think in the limit this year, but I will be hunting horns this year as I am still eating those from last year and I did my part in doe thinning last year!  A Marlin 30-30 or 44 magnum would be a very good choice that you would enjoy shooting. The rifle I have now has good practical accuracy. I shoot it very well off hand. I like the 44 magnum because it has a smaller action and the gun is lighter and handier.  I looked at the spikehorn for a while in 30-30, but cannot see it as being a benefit to how I hunt.   In my opinion the shorter guns balance makes them harder to shoot off hand as well.  I just do not like the open top winchester rifle as when it rains it seems that it would get more water in the action. The Brush buster story came about because the guns were easy to maneuver in dense cover.  Brush busters are for carrying in the brush, not for shooting through it! Jimmyp

[The deerslayer]

If the 30-30 would be better it would be for deer only. But if a 45/70 would be better I would hunt bigger thing with it too. If the 30-30 would be better I just would use my 280. And it would have to be one of these two because I want something small for the brush. I like the marlin with the 18.5 inch barrel, and thats the only two calibers they offer it in. But if it would be better I would consider a pistol caliber. And by the way how mutch does the 45/70 recoil?

[WD45]

The 45-70 is an excellent brush gun in a short levergun for carry thru thick brush and thick woods. Recoil ??
Well, That depends on the type of gun , weight of gun, type of buttplate AND how it is loaded. If you are a reloader it is a very versitile round and can be loaded light with very little noticeable recoil OR you can load it for T-REX and you will have to make a dentist appointment to put all the fillings back in your teeth after each shot.
My favorite for close shots in brush or woods is the 45LC with a keith style cast bullet pushed around 1200 FPC from a lever gun which has very little recoil and is death on deer. I could push it a lot faster than that but for deer there is just really no need other than to flatten the trajectory some. 44 MAG would be a good choice if you dont reload as there is a good choice of factory ammo available about anywhere.
It's gets down to personal preference really... I like the pistol cals in leverguns because they are light, easy to carry and pack around all day.

[The deerslayer]

Ok I found a 30-30 I really like and I am getting before deer season. Now my last question is would a scope of sights be better? The shots can be from 5-120 yards. They could be running through the brush or standing in a field.

[leverfan]

If you're used to shooting with a scope, get a low range variable (1-5x) or a low fixed power (2x) scope, and try to find one that's compact enough to keep that rifle light weight and trim.  

I wouldn't recommend learning a new style of sighting this close to hunting season, but if you're experienced with iron sights, that's what I prefer on a lever action.  My favorite sight for a lever gun is a receiver sight, called a peep sight by some folks.  To me, a scope just looks wrong on top of a traditionally styled lever gun, and I shoot just fine with receiver sights.  It doesn't add any noticeable weight to the rifle, so balance and handling are virtually the same as the basic rifle.

A scope will help if you have eye trouble that prevents you from using a receiver sight, and some folks prefer scopes for longer ranges and low light.  Out to 120 yards, your stated maximum range, a well practiced receiver sight user should shoot groups darn near as tight as that same rifle would shoot with a scope.  With practice, of course, even the open sights that come on the rifle should have you shooting "minute of venison" out to 120 yards with a decent field rest, if your eyes are up to it.

[The deerslayer]

Thanks for all of you're post and make that 30-30 a 35 rem and also I was thinking of using federal 200gr POWER · SHOK round nose soft point. Are those good bullets for deer? I also think it will be good for things up to moose. Is it? And when I get the gun I will post my results about what I did at the range.

[Harry Snippe]

Thanks for all of you're post and make that 30-30 a 35 rem and also I was thinking of using federal 200gr POWER · SHOK round nose soft point. Are those good bullets for deer? I also think it will be good for things up to moose. Is it? And when I get the gun I will post my results about what I did at the range.

The 30/30  and the 35 Rem levers are great for the bush. So is the 45/70.
When the shooting starts you not notice any recoil at all from the 45/70, but I found by experience that the big bullet does not go due south should you happen upon a twig. It will carry on and kill.
The remington 200 gr.. bullet seems the best for deer in the 35 from what I have heard from others that buy factory ammo.  I reload all my own.
Price wise the 30/30is the best value for the dollar when it comes for shooting.
My wife and I have a 30/30.  44 Mag. 35 Rem,358 and 45/70 for the bush. The 44 Trapper is used dogging since it is short ,light and fast on the draw for a snap shot.
I like the 358w. for thick bush and open meadows.Were shots are long ,out comes the bolt action in 6.5x55 and the 3006.
Best advise is to pick a rifle that you can shoot the best. It should come up quick and instantly view your sites for a quick shot . Then pick the cartridge that will match the game at the distance's you will be shooting.
Happy hunting

[7magWoodsman]

If the brush you are hoping to "bust" is further than 10'-15' from the animal you're gonna miss or wound about 95% of the time. Inside 10' you have a fair chance of killing the animal but there are no guarantees. Brush busting cartridges and bullets are myths. If you want to hit the game you best be missing the brush. So the best brush buster is really a super accurate rifle and good scope to allow you to thread the needle thru brush to hit game.

There is nothing closer to the truth....in real thick cover a short rifle may help you out but actual caliber means little....I have tested the "through brush" capabilitys of a variety of calibers and bullet weights and know from experience that a 30-30 will be thrown off target Way MORE than a .270win, 30'06, or 7mm Rem Mag and have also found that a heavier bullet is NOT always better than a lighter bullet........like Greybeard said, you have got to have "a super accurate rifle and good scope to allow you to thread the needle thru brush to hit game.".......I understand your want for a lever gun and that is fine and dandy, but don't get it for the wrong reason........if hunting for medium-large critters in heavy cover is the most frequent style of hunting you do I would personally go with a flatter shooting round such as .243, 6mm, 6.5x55swede, 260, 7mm08, or any of the three I listed above......

The best thing to do is practice shooting through brush and find exactly what load performs the best but you will quickly find that the results are sporadic and never consistent.......I NEVER depend on inconsistency, especially when there is a chance some creature will suffer as an ill effect..

Now, out of the 30-30 35 Rem. and the good ole 45/70.......If your shots are all less than 100 yards or so or if grizzly may someday be in it's sights go for the 45/70 without a second thought....if your shots are 100 yards or less and you will never hunt grizzly go .35 Remington, but if one day you may have to reach out to 200 yards or so during a whitetail hunt go with the 30-30....

To scope or not to scope??? I say scope and don't even think twice about it....there are parts of the brush you just simply can not see until you zoom in a little, plus quality optics alows for you to hunt earlier in the morning and later in the evenings....but notice I did say "quality" optics. I am a HUGE fan of the Nikon Monarch 2x-7x 32mm for a lever gun.....

Good Luck. Stay Safe. Happy Hunting.

[Cabin4]

Im going to buy a brush buster for the thick stuff. What lever would be better a 45/70 or a 30-30? Both are the same size

I see that you live in PA and are 13 yeas old. I bought a win mod 94 trapper in 30-30 for my son when he was 13. Now 15, he still likes the trapper 30-30 (so do I. What a great little shooter). We mounted a low pwer 1-5 scope on it at that time and its a great shooter and easy to carry with that short 16 inch bbl. In PA, this is a great combo for deer. Cheap to shoot, easy & light to carry and more than enough knock down power for deer.  ANother option may be a good quality red dot scope in place of a traditional scope. No paralex, eye relief issues and you can shoot with both eyes open. On a brush gun this is a good option over a regular scope.

Not sure how big you are but the 45-70 is a bit more recoil than a 30-30. However, in the guide gun version and standard factory ammo, its tolerable even for a smaller person with a coat on to absorb the recoil.

If filling your bear stamp, is also a goal, then the 45-70 may be the better option.

[victorcharlie]

My vote goes for the 45.70.  The 30.30 is a great deer gun, but if you ever want to hunt bigger game then the 45.70 would give you plenty for anything in this country......

[Mac11700]

My vote is also for the 45-70..I've owned 3 of them in the last year...all Marlins...1 ported stainless Guide Gun...a octagon barreled Cowboy...and now a unported stainless Guide Gun....each and every one of them would shoot 1-1/4" groups at 100 yards with the right handloads...so as far as accuracy goes...they are just as accurate as a-lot of bolt guns...not all mind you...but a-lot of them...so if your wanting a great, easy to load for, all around lever gun that will take just about anything thing that you'll ever hunt...go with the 45-70...yea...it kicks more than the 30-30...but ...the nostolga,accuracy,and great handling qualities,and knock down power, are built right in...and the recoil can be dampend real easy by putting the right recoil pad on it...something that any of the lever action makers seemed to have forgotten to do......


Mac

[dave hall]

i like both ,but i like the big bores more.i just bought a 450 marlin in a win. mod.94.me and my friends wanted to see just what this thing could plow through.so we picked 2 different size trees  4 1/2  and a 8" hemlock.they all went through.this is at 50 yds.i agree with greybeard,about shooting through brush anything can happen.i'm just saying about the power of the 450.i would never try to shoot anything through a tree.

HAVE FUN SHOOTING

[snowdog]

As someone pointed out,  your 13 ?    30-30 is the way to go....
     put a williams peep sight on it.  and it shoulders quickly,  ammo
    for a box of 45/70 is $23.00  a box in my area,  ammo for the box
    of  30-30 here is $12.00.  and it is found more frequently in stores.
    its less expensive to buy a 30-30 than a 45/70.   I own an 1895 Marlin
    I relly like it.   But, I have also been shooting  a lever 30-30 since
    I was 14,   you may find you don't like levers as you get older....
    You might prefer bolts, or semi-auto, or pump,  or single.

         Just about everyone who owns a few guns,  has a lever 30-30.
    usually it is replaced in time  buy an 06,  .308  or a few like
    to jump up to the magnums.   If it is at all possible,  have your dad
    or  responsible adult that has your parents permission to let you
    shoot  a 30-30,  45/70,   .308,  .44 mag,  etc,  after you fire a few
    you may have a better idea of what you like,  and  ones you dislike.

    Good Luck.

[Lloyd Smale]

ill probably get stoned for this but i did shoot a deer that was standing behind a 8 inch pine tree with a 4570 with a 540 grain hard cast bullet at 1500fps it went through the tree and completely penetrated the deer also. Now im not condoning shooting through brush but if a chance at a once in a lifetime trophy comes along and i had a 4570 or one of my linebaughs id feel alot better then if I had a .300 mag or any other rifle with jacketed bullets. Now if i had to pick a favorite brush gun it would no doubt be a .35 rem now theres a round that kills all out of proportion to its ballistics!

[fffffg]

i read an article years ago about some guy actually doing tests on brush. he did not find any corelation between bullet weight or caliber that matterd much, but found that twist rate helped the most..  if his calcualtions are correct the 30 30 would deflect less than a 45 70 if it hit a leaf or blade of grass, if it hit a stick or twig im not very confident it will have much accuracy very far after that.. good luck dave..

[Cabin4]

All the brush-buster stuff is alot of bs. To me a brush buster is a lever or pump gun with a short barrel capable of killing a dear or a black bear. Having nothing to do with bullets capable of going thru branches, leaves, twigs or anything like this.

[The deerslayer]

Well thanks for all of your post. I got to shoot the 35 a little, but just to see how it did. It's not long before deer season so after I get it sighted in I will be sure to post my results. For this year im using peep sights. If I like them Im going to keep using them. I got federal and remington 200 grain soft points for this year too, but I found an ammo company that makes hollow points for them so I probly will use them next year.

[Buffalogun]

Go Gett'um Tiger!!!


Buffalogun

[IntrepidWizard]

For years I carried a 94 30-30 ahorse and a Semi custom Springfield 06 afoot,then I wanted more and went to the 99's ,300 and 308 and used them afoot also.Three years ago I got "The M" and ahorse or afoot it does 80% of the work.
s

[7mm MAGNUM]

Hmmmm,.. after reading all of these posts I'm amazed that only one person commented on the good ol' .44 Magnum lever as an option here.

I have always thought of it as an outstanding bush type rifle and the ammo is relatively cheap more so if you reload.
It certainly has the knock down power within it's intended limitations, light to carry and maneuver around.

Just think of it as it's cousin the good ol' .30-30 but on steroids!
I once owned a .30-30 lever and sold it (never should have done that)
 
BUT the next lever action I purchase will be chambered for that .44 Magnum round and I"ll keep her forever!  :wink:  

[jd45]

Just my 2 cents, but I'm with wd45, & I'd go with a strong '92 action, such as a Rossi Puma or, better, IF you can find one, a Browning '92 in .45 Colt.  This cartridge can be handloaded, if you're of a mind to, to better than .44 mag. specs &, so says Paco Kelly, close to 45-70 specs(!) with the heavy-weight cast bullets that're available. In fact, I just bought an LSI/Puma & I intend to play around with some handloads with it. Even with mild loads, it is much better than the .44-40. Forgive my sacrelige (sic). And I agree, if you're hunting deer, you don't need to load for dinosaur. It's just nice to have the flexibility, in case you want to go after hog, or something else that requires deep penetration. Good hunting, everyone! jd45.

[Cabin4]

Hmmmm,.. after reading all of these posts I'm amazed that only one person commented on the good ol' .44 Magnum lever as an option here.

You right about that. I have a win 94 44mag in the Packer version with the short 18 inch barrel & pistol grip stock. Its a great woods gun.

[jd45]

Cabin4, no offense, but why did your post totally ignore mine regarding the .45 Colt cartridge potential, compared to the .44 mag. You remind me of a guy at a gun shop I had a conversation with. He argued that the .44-40 cartridge was superior to the .44 mag. cartridge, even after I gave him the specs concerning bullet weight & velocity between the two. His attitude was, because he was behind  the counter, he had to be right. Please don't misunderstand me.......the .44 mag is a great cartridge, & I've had a Browning '92 in .44 mag, but since the introduction of the .45 Colt in rifles, there exists an edge over the .44 mag. cartridge. That's reality, like it or not.  Again, I mean no offense, jd45.

[Wrong Way]

I believe the answer to the "brush buster" problem is very simple. Instead of buying a cannon and trying to blow a hole thru the brush, or buying a super accurate scoped wonder rifle and trying to thread a shot thru a hole in the twigs, why not try something my hunter education teacher taught me many years ago. It's called waiting for a clear shot. Problem solved....... I can only assume it is still taught in the classes today. I may be wrong though. I feel better passing up a shot than taking a chance on a deflection and having the bullet sail off to parts unknown. My humble opinion only.