How interoperable are Colt small frame revolver parts?

[Naphtali]

I do not own any Colt percussion revolver. I have not handled any of the following revolvers:
M1848 Baby Dragoon, 5-shot, .31-caliber;
M1849 Pocket, 5-shot, .31-caliber;
M1862 Police 5-shot, .36-caliber; and
M1862 Pocket Navy, 5-shot, .36-caliber.

1. Are these revolvers basically the same frame and lock work except for cylinder and cylinder frame relief needed for .36-caliber? I anticipate that if these are of common design, barrels are also of common design except for the "hole."

2. Several manufacturers in Italy manufacture identically named revolver models. What is the degree of interchangeability of parts -- for example, can I buy Uberti revolver and repair it with Pietta parts?

3. Who furnished the revolvers or parts for the out-of-business Colt Black Powder Company of Brooklyn? Who repairs or services this brand name now?

4. In your experience is there one or more manufacturers of these revolvers whose product is significantly superior to others? Significantly INFERIOR?

[filmokentucky]

Naphtali- The lock work is basically the same. It has been my experience that parts do not readily exchange between makers. Uberti furnished the raw forgings for the second and third generation Colts and I'm told that Uberti parts will fit them with minor work. Haven't had one break yet so I can't attest to this.
  The Colts are considered the the best with Uberti next. Pietta used to be third, but their quality has come up to the point where there's little to choose between their guns and Uberti's. Then there's Armi San Marco and Palmetto Armory. I believe there were some others, but they fell by the wayside years ago. I hope you find this to be helpful.

[Naphtali]

filmokentucky:

When you report the lock work as "basically the same," does this mean that the M1862 revolvers are to the 1848-49 revolvers as the 1860 Colt Army is to the M1851 Colt Navy?

What I'm attempting to confirm is that Colt used the same frame pattern for the M1862s that is used in the .31-caliber revolvers and enhanced it or converted it to larger caliber by using enlarged and rebated cylinder, the cylinder being accommodated by slight reshaping of cylinder frame.

If I thought Uberti USA or Pietta would answer the question with something other than bafflegab, I would ask directly. But product liability concerns have caused nearly all information to be "proprietary."

[Flint]

The 1849 Pocket, the Wells Fargo and the Baby Dragoon are the same revolver except for the addition of the loading lever on the pocket and the round bolt and locking notches of the Baby Dragoon.  That cylinder and bolt are unique to that gun.  

The 1862 Pocket Police and Pocket Navy differ only in barrel and cylinder and frame notch.  The Police has a fluted cylinder and round barrel and the Navy has an unfluted cylinder and octagonal barrel.  Both will interchange frame to frame, and a 31 cylinder and barrel will fit the 62 Navy and Police frame, but not vice-versa.  Just as a 51/61 Navy cylinder and barrel will fit an 1860 Army frame.

Uberti made the parts for the 2nd gen Colts, but not all the parts for the 3rd.  The frames for my 3rd gen revolvers were not Uberti.  The spiral groove in the cylinder base pin is correctly done on the Uberti made 2nd gen.  On my sample 3rd gen it is an irregularly spaced series of undividually cut grooves, not helical.  The 3rd gen also often lack capping grooves and the squareback Navy has a large triggerguard, not the small one and shorter trigger it should have.

Some parts will interchange between Uberti and Pietta or others, but not all, and some not at all.  Screw centers on FRames and Grip frames differ some, and barrels can often be be fitted, but don't drop in.  Cylinders don't time well, or as easily if they are off brand.  Internal parts such as bolts and hands, triggers etc are better on Uberti, especially the newer Ubertis.

Pietta does not make a small Pocket framed Colt at all.  The Pietta "1862" is actually just a short barreled Navy.  That fact makes it  a 6 rather than 5 shot revolver, and allows the use of a Kirst Conversion cylinder in the Pietta, should one be so inclined.

The Uberti has traditionally superior to the Pietta, but Pietta is catching up.  The 2nd Gen Colts were and are the best you can get, the 3rd gen (Signature Series) Colts vary between being better in color case finish (only) and pure junk, complete with factory supplied loose cylinder pins and rounded off corners and more.

[Naphtali]

Flint:

Then the M1849 Pocket revolver's lock work differs from the 1848? Okay, one thing done.

And both 1862 revolver patterns use same lock work. Another one done.

And 1862 barrels' assemblies interchange with minor fitting. Another one done.

And the cylinder frame of the M1862 Pocket Navy has the relief for rebated cylinder carried through the entire frame, so that a 1862 Police revolver's cylinder will fit a Pocket Navy's cylinder frame, but the Pocket Navy's cylinder must be turned to fit a Police cylinder frame?

No one with sense would bother futzing with the cylinder, but the difference between the cylinders brings up a question: At the time (circa 1860s) when steel quality was not as uniform as now, did the additional mass of the Pocket Navy's cylinder compared with the Police revolver's rebated cylinder result in improved safety or allow heavier charges? OR was this difference strictly cosmetic?
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And both .31-caliber barrel assemblies fit both 1862 revolvers with minor fitting, the problem being, of course, that the .31-caliber hole need be bored out and rerifled to function on the 1862 revolvers?
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And you and filmokentucky mention Uberti as a standard for Colt revolvers. Would it be fair -- reasonable -- to conclude that while other makers' products may be of comparable quality, you are more comfortable investing in Uberti Colt small frame revolvers than any other maker?

Do you have any idea of parts' availability -- that is, selling parts to non-gunsmiths to allow [me] to maintain the revolvers myself?

I understand Uberti sells revolvers under their own brand name. If the revolvers are also available rebadged from Dixie, Cabela's, et cetera, can you furnish that information?

[filmokentucky]

VTI replica gun parts stocks all the parts you would ever need for Pietta and Uberti. I've dealt with them a few times and always found them very helpful. Just type VTI gun parts into your browser window.
  At the time (1860s) these pistols were new, Colt was touting their new material as "silver steel" apparently an early steel alloy. They claimed it was much stronger than the old metal. And maybe it was.
   Flint's observations on the third gen Colts are dead on. I only have one-a '60 Army-and it is a big disappointment compared to my second gen guns. The various pieces were polished separately and buffing marks run every which way. The  grips only vaguely resemble those on other Colts-
the timing was way off-the list is endless. Surprisingly, once the problems were addressed, it turned out to be a good shooter. And if it should get dropped or run over by an ox cart- well nothing would hurt it's looks.

[Flint]

The 1862 Pocket Navy and Police have exactly the same frame, with the rebate step.  Though the fluting somewhat disguises it, the two cylinders are interchangable, both are rebated.  Other than the normal fitting required of a spare parts stock, they are completely interchangable, and were you to purchase an 1862 Police and spare cylinder and barrel for an 1862 Pocket Navy, you could convert the gun back and forth with no problem, except for minor fitting of the wedge and cylinder gap.

As far as I can tell, the fluting was done for appearance and perhaps for weight reduction.  It is a better fluting on the 1862 than on the 1860 and 1861 as they were fully fluted, and the bolt timing is extremely critical or it stalls the revolver if the bolt drops early.  The 1862 locking notches are on a cylindrical surface with the half fluted portion forward, so the timing is more forgiving.

If you mount a 31 caliber barrel on an 1862, you are advised to also use a 31 caliber cylinder.  It would be better to shorten an 1862 barrel than to go to the expense of reboring the 31 bore if what you want is a shorter barrel.

Pietta does not make a small frame revolver, and Armi San Marcos is gone.  That leaves Uberti.  VTIgunparts stock the Uberti parts, which will fit all the 2nd and 3rd gen Colts, sometimes better than the factory parts in the case of the 3rd gen.

I recently bought a set of barrels and cylinders from VTI to recalibrate my 1872 Open Tops from 44 (Special and Colt) to 38 Special.  After a quick lathe turning to set the endshake and cylinder gap, and adjusting a wedge, they functioned fine last Sunday at a match.   Now I can interchange from 38 Special to 44 Russian with ease, and saves the expense of two additional revolvers.  The open top Colts are great for that, you can buy longer or shorter barrels, or cut them if you buy spares, and change barrel lengths as you please.

Filmokentucky seems to have similar experiences with the guns as I've had.  They are a tinkerer's dream.

[mec]

I found that Cimarron,(usually 100 percent on supplying uberti parts) is prone to send out a baby dragoon locking bolt when you order for the 49 pocket model- same part number.  VTI and Navy got it right.

Current references still mention Silver Steel and call it a one percent carbon alloy.  I don't know if it's the same as the "silver spring steel" colt bragged about or not but the bessimer process came in a few years before the 1869-62 changes.   The first Colt Armys had fluited cylinders and some of the blew up.  They then went to the old solid roll engraved cylinder and fixed that.  The Police models came along later and apparently, the thinner cylinder walls were not considered a liability.

I have a Wells Fargo from Uberti that is a couple of years old.  Parts appear to be well finished and heat treated but it does function better now that I shortened the hand just a bit.  The 2004 Uberti Army Model and the 58 Remington are the best replicas I've ever seen.  A bit point is that both Uberti USA and Cimarron Arms have service departments for their guns and also a full stock of spare parts for every (uberti) model they handle.  Pietta will not respond to inquires about factory service or to requests for active gunsmiths as advertised on their web page.  VTI has recently stared handling Pietta parts which should make things a little better- if they can get the factory to sustain parts shipments.

Also, Numrich Gunparts has an Essential Parts Kit for Navy/Army revolvers. It  comes in a pietta package.  Inputting "Pietta" into the Numrich search engine brings up a cartridge conversion for the 58 Remington and a long list of parts for the Pietta 1860. The great majority of the Pietta Army Parts are astericed as being "Sold Out."