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Offline Cabin4

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back up long gun weapon
« on: August 26, 2004, 10:53:07 AM »
What do most pro guides use as a long gun back up weapon when guiding a client ?
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Offline Winter Hawk

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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2004, 08:19:01 AM »
From what I've read, .338 or .375 mag seem to be favored.  However I have never used a guide, so can't tell from personal experience.  Forest Service minimums for field crews where the big bears live is .30-06 w/ 220 gr. factory ammo.  Issue weapons are either 12 ga. pump (boo, hiss - personal opinion) or .375 magnum.  We may carry our personal weapons instead but have to meet minimums.  The Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 or .450 Marlin have found favor with the powers that be.

-WH-
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Offline Sourdough

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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2004, 08:13:00 AM »
Guides like everyone else have their personal openions, and preferances.  Several guides I know carry a .375H&H in bolt action.  Others carry the lever action in 45-70.  They carry what makes them comfortable that they can keep wounded or spooked game off their client.  But most important they take it out and get totally comfortable and familure with it.  When trying to protect a client of themselves, is not the time to be fumbling, or trying to remember how to get the safety off on this gun.  At this time the action is close, fast, close, furious, and did I mention close.   :ejavascript:emoticon(':eek:')
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Offline Thebear_78

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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2004, 10:36:31 PM »
I know of one guide that uses a pump 12ga with 3" #4 buck loads.   He said that a load of buckshot to the head is the only consistant way to anchor a charging bear.  He perfered the #4 buck because there were a lot more pellets to up the odds and still adequate penetration.  A lot of hunters might get made when you destroy the skull but its better to not make the record books and make it home instead.  After taking a load of #4 buck to the head at 20 yards the head of a brown bear resembles a burlap sack filled with small wooden blocks and strawberry jam.  The 45/70 and 450 marlins seem to be pretty popular too.
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Offline dabigmoose

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« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2004, 12:23:37 AM »
I have a hard time believing anyone  shooting a bear in the head with #4 buck with any luck.I have personally shot them with 00# at 20 feet with and have seen others do it and there are a few running around with Mohawks because of it and no dead bears.  IT does not work well at all.I finished it with a rifle as it was on my front steps skinned the skull no penetration.I have shot numerous bears around the village that had 38 and 45 slugs flattened on their skulls and healed up and calcium build up around the old wounds.
 I have shot blackies with 00#same result unless under 20 yards shot in heart and lung area.
 I would not advise anyone to use #4 buckshot at all it is way to light to penetrate the skull of a Brownie some rifle and handgun rounds don't even penetrate them. Shotguns with buckshot are a false since of security in brown bear areas.There is nothing better than good high powered rifle and knowing how to use it.
 Dabigmoose
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Offline Daveinthebush

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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2004, 05:13:50 PM »
I agree with the big moose. Number 4 isn't even the best bet for deer.  People, maybe. But big bears, not me.

Hey, anyone got a cow moose tied to a pole around Fairbanks. Only saw one calf and one cow busting trees getting away.  These 53 year old feet don't like doing 18-20 miles in 2 days looking for one.
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Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2004, 05:19:33 PM »
Quote
I know of one guide that uses a pump 12ga with 3" #4 buck loads. He said that a load of buckshot to the head is the only consistant way to anchor a charging bear.


I would not book a hunt with that fellow if he paid me to come hunt with him. His suggestion "might" be OK if it was a mtn. lion you were hunting but a bear? That fool is gonna get himself or someone killed. I'm betting he has NEVER actually tried it in real life. Buck shot just ain't gonna do it and small ones will barely penetrate a deer deep enough to kill it.


Quote
After taking a load of #4 buck to the head at 20 yards the head of a brown bear resembles a burlap sack filled with small wooden blocks and strawberry jam.


Dunno if this quote is yours or this "guide" you say you know. But it shows a total lack of understanding of shotguns and buckshot and zero experience with either. Sorry but that just ain't the way it works. If this guy is for real he can't be a licensed guide in AK. I believe the state has more stringent requirements than to let such a dunce get a license.
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Offline Thebear_78

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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2004, 09:24:41 PM »
It was the guides quote.  I will be the first to admit that I have no practical experience with big bears, never really had any interest in hunting them.  The guy I am refering to is a licensed guide and has been doing it for quite some time.  He claims to have either shot or guided when shot almost 300 grizlys.  He had quite a few pictures of bears he had guided and told a pretty convincing story.  He said he used to carry a 375 H&H winchest M70 cut to 20" but switched the the shotgun because it was better in the tag alders than the rifle.
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Offline Cabin4

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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2004, 04:58:31 AM »
Truly an amazing recommendation from an AK Guide. Someone should find this so called guide and get his licence revoked ! If one of his clients is killed by a bear and thats what he was using to thwart off an attack, he should be charged as an accomplis to murder.

#4 buck shot as a brown bear back-up weapon is about one of the dumbest things I have seen posted here in years. But, I asked the question and these are answers !
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Offline 300winman

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« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2004, 07:34:08 AM »
I do believe people have a hard time bringing down geese with #4, let alone a grizzly.


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