Beartooth cast bullets at FULL RIFLE velocities

[art2africa]

Jim, I read an old post of yours in another forum when you were testing your then new 458 Lott.

Would you be so kind to post your experience in using cast bullets for practice? Info (load powder, weight, velocity, etc.), pros, cons, possible pittfalls for someone new who's considering going that path?

And I mean FULL loads (in my 416Rem, it would be 370gr at 2450, and 335gr. at 2650 fps. I know you have a 458 Lott, but I'd just appreciate to hear your experience.

Thanks,
Art

[JJHACK]

I have been away from home and I don't have the information commited to memory in every detail. However I will share with you what I do know from here.

I shoot 450 grain X bullets and A frames at 2300fps with 72 grains of RL-7(22" barrel)

The cast bullets did not feed for fast shooting practice. My magazine feed rails work perfect for round nose or spire points but not 100% with flatnose cast bullets. That is being adjusted as I write this. My rifle is back in for a tune up right now.

I only ever shot the cast bullets with the same powder load but they were 425 grains not the 450 grain I normally use. The highest velocity I ever loaded to was just under 2400fps with the 450X bullet and with the 500 grain Hornady Round nose I was getting just over 2300fps. I rather doubt that one needs to load to that level to realize all the stopping power that you would need from this cartridge.

My prefered load as I write this today is the 72 grains of RL7 with the 450 X bullet or the 450 Aframes. At 2300fps these bullets will blow clean through just about anything you would normally hunt and they will leave a huge exit hole to boot!  On Buffalo I have still not recovered and X bullet. I did recover one from a Blue wildebeast which I shot going straight away. I also recovered a swift Aframe bullet from the skull of a Crocadile which I shot as backup at a great distance and under about 20-24" of water!  That bullet is massivly mushroomed, probably the majority was from the water but the bullet had bone embedded into the lead too.

Now the most important issue to my way of thinking is the practical ownership of such a rifle. If it's just something you want that's great and might be fun. However the reality of this cartridge is that it's really a backup type of rifle and has very little use for actual hunting. Sure you can kill game with it, and it's deadly accurate to quite a ways out there. However it's not a fun rifle to practice with, and with a scope it's a very heavy rifle to pack around for hunting.

I have hunted all the big game of Africa with clients who have shot them all. From what I have seen the 375HH and the 416 calibers with premium softs of Solids for the thick skinned game have worked fine. The 458 and bigger always work as well but they are bigger then needed for the once or twice recreational sport hunter.  They have no real functional use for North America except for Brown bear, bison and maybe Moose. The truth is a 375HH will clobber North American game equally well and can also be used in Africa without a struggle.

If I were not a PH and in areas with possible frequent risk, I would not own this rifle. My biggest gun would be my 375HH. I have never yet seen any animal shot with a 375HH, that has been hit well cause any trouble whatsoever.  Brown bears and Cape Buffalo are the ones that have been the most difficult to crumple with what I would call well placed shots but they fall dead within an acceptable distance too. I Rather doubt a 458 Lott would crumple a Brownie any better then the 375HH on a head on charging shot.  Reason is that if the head is hit with either they would both take out the brain. If the body is hit,... there is as much involved with luck as bullet performace that somthing important will be struck with enough force to stop the charge. The Lott would have an advantage with flat nose bullets because of the bigger surface contact area. That makes a big difference in the bullet impact.

The Lott would be a better choice on a follow up with a straight away running shot or maybe even quartering. Because that 450X bullet will drive a big hole clean through just about anything. The Lott would be a better choice with Cape buffalo on a facing head on shot because the 450X bullet would blow through the horn bosses and skull with greater consistancy and less chance of deflection.

As you can see a big part of the success fromula is the bullet choice. Not only the cartridge.  A 375 or 416 with X bullets is an amazing penetrator and should not be underestimated for a all around big game rifle.