Author Topic: slugs from shotgun barrels (Read 1378 times)

mjbgalt · « **on:** August 28, 2004, 09:22:34 AM »

i have read posts in which several of you state that your pardner/topper can put 3 slugs inside 4" at 50 yards. is this the case on average??

i hope to use my the pardner i bought last night for deer this year but i want to know whether i should even bother to try it out. my 870 20 gauge is horrible with slugs, i am not kidding, i think i would probably THROW the slugs toward the target more accurately than it will shoot them.

so whats the consensue guys? if it will do what i listed above, i wont bother with getting a slug barrel, but if it can go out to 50 yards and maybe 75 within 6" or so then i will be happy.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2004, 09:46:11 AM »

mjbgalt, nice talking to you again, and so soon!!! Yes that 12 gauge barrel should put all slugs easily within your stated goal of a 4" circle at 50 yards and 6" circle at 75 yards. It should shoot much better than that if can manage to get a competent gunsmith to drill and tap it for a scope or red dot. Depending on the compatibility of your particular choke and the slugs you end up using, coupled with your ability a 4" group is easily attainable at 50 yards with the bead sight. I suggest staying away from the magnum slugs (ouch!, and why?) and trying some rather inexpensive (about $4.00 per box of 5) Brenneke 2 3/4" 1 oz. slugs. The recoil is minimal and there is no deer that will go far when hit in the boiler room or neck with that chunk of lead...
My 12 gauge has been drilled and tapped to accept a Handi scope rail, the screws and screw holes in the rails were changed to 8/40's from the original 6/48's for strength and the screws were filed flat on the bottom, the holes tapped to the bottom with a bottoming tap and the rail was epoxied on as well as screwed down nice and snug. Not all gunsmiths are willing to do this type of work or even to attempt it but my guy is excellent and a perfectionist...My 12 gauge smooth bore shoots the Brenneke's into one ragged cloverleaf at 50 yards when I do my part with the 30 mm Simmons red dot I currently have mounted and groups that will drop any deer at 100 and I'm still tweaking it. Remington sluggers are a bit more on the shoulder and shoot to a little different point of aim but I could use them if I had to. I Have not tried Winchesters or Federals yet, it's just that the Brenneks shoot so great with so little perceived recoil I enjoy shooting them, especially when they all go into the same big ragged hole!!! Have fun, and yes, these gun will shoot forster style slugs great!!!!....<><.... :grin:

lik2hunt · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2004, 10:18:50 AM »

mjbgalt - give this thread a look too.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=37853

mjbgalt · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2004, 10:35:54 AM »

thanks, guys

scruffy · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2004, 05:19:56 PM »

Thanks Lik2hunt, that saved me a bunch of typing.

If you guys want to see how far you can shoot a deer from the standing or leaning against a tree position put a large folgers coffee can out at say 25 yards and see how many slugs out of a box of 5 hit the can and "make it dance". Then put the can out at 50. Then out to 75 yards. If you buy a 15 round box of winchesters or Remingtons (does federal sell 15 round boxes yet?) then one box will take you from 25 to 75 yards.

I've done this with my fiberoptic beaded Pardner 12 using winchester slugs at 25 and 50 yards and had very good success. 25 yards was easy and fun. I don't remember how I did at 50, but I don't think I was perfect. I need more practice.

Oh, and one more thing, wear a THICK coat and take a few Ibuprofens before hand. Fun but painful. And it'll give you a truer idea of what you can do with your shotgun. Paper from a rest only tells a small part of the story when it comes to shooting at game.

Which brings me to the next lesson. Once you master the "dancing coffee can" take a can and drill a hole in it (or use a slug hole :grin: ) and tie a string onto it and hang it from a tree (assuming you have trees where you shoot, I do on the farm...). Shoot the can, reload, and shoot it again while it's still swinging. It'll start to teach you how to track a moving target and tell you if you need to be shooting at stationary targets only or if you're ready for moving targets. Like I said, it's a start, a swinging can and running deer are two very different things. A swinging can and walking deer, ah, closer, and close is better than nothing.

And hopefully your not like me, my wife has cut back on the coffee usage so all I have to shoot at this year are the small red folgers coffee cans. :wink:

*** of, I forgot to mention, you can do the same drills with a 22 and soup cans before moving to your slugs for the "test". Alot easier on the shoulder and wallet!

later,
scruffy

mjbgalt · « **Reply #5 on:** August 28, 2004, 06:09:27 PM »

so youre saying that an $89 shotgun will shoot to point of aim with slugs without sights or a scope??

nice, considering my $225 870 Express won't do that.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #6 on:** August 29, 2004, 04:12:14 AM »

mjbgalt, that's more a function of the individual gun (barrel) than the make or model. I have had issued 870's that were very accurate with slugs and the bead sight on a Combat Sillouette target out to 75 yards with a smoothbore barrel. Some others needed "Kentucky Windage" to adjust for impact in the K5 area...We later went to adjustable rifle sights (added to our barrels, not new barrels) it took a bit more time to aim but the group size did decrease a bit for most...And yes it is possible to accurately shoot slugs with a bead sight at moderate ranges, I think 40-50 yards is very ethical after practice for the average proficient shooter and hunter. One very important thing is to match the barrel/gun with the slugs that it shoots most accutarely, just as important as matching the right bullet to a rifle and powder charge. You cannot shoot small groups with slugs that fly erraticaly out of your barrel....<><.... :grin:

lik2hunt · « **Reply #7 on:** August 29, 2004, 06:58:44 AM »

Really good posts here and I say "oh yea" to shooting targets in more of a hunting situation emulation such as what scruffy described. That is important especially as the sesons are approaching quickly. Foster style slugs do "wobble" when fired from any gun and you just have to get a few and see which ones your gun likes the best. The .22 and soda can scenario is a great suggestion also , you could even use a pellet gun with a scope if ya got one, anything to hone the eye to scope to finger skills. If you know that you are definitely going to be shooting slugs only for any period of time, I would suggest weighting the buttstock by unscrewing the screws and exposing the bolt-hole in the stock. You can fill it with loose shot (I just bought a box of cheap field load and opened every shell and saved the shot) or I think one person here used a roll of nickels, good idea. Either are simple to remove when you are thru with the slug shooting season. The extra weight reduces the felt recoil of the slugs being fired due to it taking more thrust to move a heavier object than a light one, thus the back pressures of shooting a 1 oz. slug move the buttstock into your shoulder less if the buttstock is heavier. The modified choke barrel of the 20 ga. stabilizes the slugs better than the mod. choked barrel of a 12 ga. for some reason, I don't fully understand why on this one but I do know it is true as I have both calibers. The 20 ga. slugs are 7/8 oz. I believe versus the 1 oz. slugs of the 12 ga. Anyway, you should get a few boxes of slugs, they're usually $2 or $3 a box of five, and go shoot them and see how they do out of your gun as is, you may find that you don't need to do any of the modifications listed or add a scope either. After you are satisfied with the cheap ones then go get a box or two of the Brennekes. In my estimation they are the most accurate foster type slug on the market and if you can shoot well with the cheap ones the Brennekes will give you anywhere from a %30 to %50 improvement. I just use them to hunt with since they are more expensive. They're about a buck per slug here.
Try some of the suggestions here and get back to us and let us know how you come out.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #8 on:** August 29, 2004, 07:20:48 AM »

sounds good. actually the roll of nickels idea was mine. :grin:

i will have to try this out some time soon. i am planning to cut an inch off the stock and add a nice recoil pad in its place....hoping to keep the length of pull the same. (I have a 20 gauge, btw, not a 12.)

just wondering though...wouldnt a decent peep sight be best, so that i dont have to modify my small game gun with a scope mount?

i am excited now...i really like these guns. i am amazed how well they perform for the price. and they do have classic good looks, even if they dont have the gloss and frills.

btw are there synthetic stocks available for the shotguns too? MSP, if you want i will trade you the synthetic stocks for part or all of my youth parnder, if its got a recoil pad already in it.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2004, 07:56:03 AM »

mjbgalt, that sounds like a plan, let me look around and get back to you. I'll try to make this work. Do you want the Monte Carlo or non-Monte Carlo synthetic stocks?...<><.... :grin:

mjbgalt · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2004, 08:27:15 AM »

i only want the non-monte carlo style.

are they lighter than the wood? i mean, enough lighter that the recoil would bug me? and i only want em if the recoil pad is with em...

(no way to cut em down to get the same length of pull with an added pad if theyre synthetic.)

MSP Ret · « **Reply #11 on:** August 29, 2004, 08:41:30 AM »

OK, mjbgalt, I think we can make this work. The synthetics (non-MonteCarlo with recoil pad) are lighter than the wood which is lighter than the laminated but there is a lot space available in the buttstock of the synthetics if you want to add weight. Of course the trade off in a hunting scenario is that you carry a heavier gun all day for that split second of recoil that will never remember while shooting at game anyway. If you want to shoot off a bench at the range all the time get a laminated set (the heaviest of the synthetic, wood, laminated trio) and add weight to the buttstock, or just add it while you bare at the range and remove it for hunting. Your choice, your decision. What do you want, a bench gun or a carry/hunting gun. With these little beauties you can set up one gun to fit many needs. I will know tomorrow for sure on the stock set (what you want, brand new, never been fired) and send you a PM, OK?....<><.... :grin:

mjbgalt · « **Reply #12 on:** August 29, 2004, 08:47:59 AM »

sounds great, thanks, MSP.

so if you can get the non-monte stock with recoil pad built in, i will trade it straight up. correct? just so we are on the same page.

-Matt

MSP Ret · « **Reply #13 on:** August 29, 2004, 09:43:54 AM »

Thats it!!!....<><.... :grin:

mjbgalt · « **Reply #14 on:** August 29, 2004, 10:15:40 AM »

btw, how do you change stocks back and forth? maybe a socket set with a long extension, or is there some other way?

MSP Ret · « **Reply #15 on:** August 29, 2004, 10:24:40 AM »

Remove the buttplate or recoil pad with a phillips head screwdriver (2 screws), using a rachet or breaker bar and a couple of long extensions with a 9/16" socket remove the stock bolt and the stock comes right off. (That way the receiver fits in a small box :wink: ) ....<><.... :grin:

HuntenNut · « **Reply #16 on:** August 29, 2004, 11:36:34 AM »

MSP Ret,

What gunsmith did the drill and tap for you, and what did it run?

Would he let me mail him a barrel (I am in MI)?

Would be interested in getting a Tracker 12ga barrel drilled and tapped, but can't find anyone who will do it.

Thanks

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #17 on:** August 29, 2004, 12:03:26 PM »

mjbgalt don't be afraid to use your pardner with a bead site for deer hunting. Just be sure you practice enough like scruffy said to know where your gun hits. And MSP ret is correct about 40-50 yds being within ethical hunting range for a bead site slug gun. My pardner will easily group 4" at 50yds. and that is with a bead only. In fact I have grouped five slugs very close to 4" at 100 yds with this gun. (it was only one time and I haven't been able to duplicate it :grin: ). Being a long time bowhunter I like getting close before taking a shot. I trust my pardner to take a deer cleanly at the distances I shoot, 50 yds or less. My best advice would be to buy several brands of slugs and see which shoots best in your gun. Then buy more of that brand and practice, practice, practice. Practice does not mean shooting from a bench. :grin:

mjbgalt · « **Reply #18 on:** August 29, 2004, 12:16:59 PM »

i may be spoiled....my dad has an 1187SP 12 gauge that i can shoot 50 yard groups of less than an inch with.

oh well

i will practice and see how it does. cant be worse than my 870 was....it took me along time to find the trail in the grass where it shot the slug....about TWO FEET down the to the right of my aiming point. ugh.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #19 on:** August 29, 2004, 01:45:05 PM »

HuntenNut, His name is Ed Gagnon and he is in Centerville Mass. He is most known for building and accurizing competitive .45 Autos but is also well known in this area for his work on shotguns, backboring, jug chokes, trueing chokes and tapping and installing choke tubes on regular shotgun barrels. I was having a lot of work done by him (a group job for me and 2 others) and had a bunch of muzzleloaders shortened to 21" or so and the muzzles recrowned with front sights replaced into new dovetails, he also made the 3 .50 cal muzzleloaders ( a couple of .54's and 2 .56's) into the "QLA" (quick load) system that TC had pioneered with a small false muzzle of sorts to help facilitate quick reloading. The drill and tap job was all included in the overall price for sum of the work. If you are really interested I can check with him and advise you. You would have to supply the scope rail you wanted mounted and agree not to remove it and replace it often. He advised me that scope attachments of this sort (thin metal) are supposed to be machined, attached with both screws and epoxy and left on which I have done with mine. The screws he uses are much stronger and a bit larger than the original screws supplied with the rail so the rail also has to be modified to accept the larger screw heads....<><.... :grin:

HuntenNut · « **Reply #20 on:** August 30, 2004, 02:47:31 AM »

MSP Ret,

Sent you PM regarding ED

WTM45 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 27, 2009, 04:23:42 PM »

I know this is one from the archives.......

But, MSP Ret, what do you think about having a rail put on a 12ga Topper Deluxe Slug?
Do you think your gunsmith would take on that project? I'd love to put a small holo or red dot on mine!