Author Topic: Blackpowder To Pyrodex To Triple 7 Equivalents (Read 1003 times)

TKO · « **on:** August 30, 2004, 12:31:29 PM »

I have a TC Firestorm and according to TC site:

Loading: The Fire Storm can accept Magnum charges of up to 150 grains of FFG Black Powder or Pyrodex® equivalent (or 3 Pyrodex® 50 caliber, 50 grain Pellets).

First of all I USE LOOSE POWDER NOT PELLETS. The way I read this, the max load of loose black powder or pyrodex is 150 grains by volume. My question is will 150 grains by volume of 777 be okay?

Thanks!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** August 30, 2004, 01:30:14 PM »

No, not according to Hodgdon, you must reduce loads 15% by volume to be equal.

Quote

Triple Seven is a high energy product designed to provide the muzzleloading hunter with higher velocities when used in the same VOLUME as black powder. To duplicate a black powder load velocity using Triple Seven, you must decrease the powder charge by 15%. *See WARNING below.

http://www.hodgdon.com/tripleseven/loadnote.php

TKO · « **Reply #2 on:** August 30, 2004, 03:07:19 PM »

quickdtoo,

Thanks for the reply. That seems about right as the largest load I have seen for 777 is 125 grains loose and 128 grains is 15% off 150.

Thanks

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** August 30, 2004, 05:13:53 PM »

I shoot 120gr 3f T7 in my black diamond, don't think I want to shoot more, it kicks bad enough! :wink:

harryo · « **Reply #4 on:** August 30, 2004, 05:18:34 PM »

I wasn't even sure what a Firestorm was, so I went to T/C's web site to check it out. Interesting, a flintlock that has a removable breechplug and is designed to use pellets. This makes is a bit of a stretch to be considered traditional, especially with a composite stock and in stainless steel. But I'm not argueing that point, I just wanted to air my personal observation.

First, I shoot black powder 95% of the time and loose Pyrodex a bit. Which ever you use, forget the pellets, they are grossly overpriced. Don't know a thing about 777. It's too high priced for me and I like black powder, which you are still going to want to use in the pan of your rifle, for the most reliable ignition.

Second, even though your rifle is engineered to handle 150 grain charge, I would bet my best rifle that your most accurate load will be much less than that, especially with the 1/48" twist. Start with 70 grains and work your way up, in 5 grain increments, until you find an optimum load. That will be a load which gives you a good balance of velocity and accuracy. My guess, depending on the projectile you use, is it will be somewhere in the 75-100 grain range of FFg black powder or Pyrodex RS. Closer to the low side for patched, round balls and on the higher side for lead conicals. Either of those loads will be more than adequate for taking deer with a well placed shot, at reasonable range(<100 yds).

Harry

crow_feather · « **Reply #5 on:** August 31, 2004, 04:08:44 AM »

It does seem that loose powder takes the fire outa da storm. Lookin at the pictures in the ad, it looks like a bunch of fire flows through that little hole into the firing chamber and is sposed ta encircle the base of a pellet.
Loose powder will fill that firing chamber an yer left with jest a normal flinter.

Of course a normal T/C flinter itself is a lotta rifle

C F

harryo · « **Reply #6 on:** August 31, 2004, 10:18:26 AM »

Yeah, I can see how the breech plug is supposed to provide a gap below the pellrts to let the fire from the pan spread around the bottom of them. Loose powder would fill this space but it doesn't need it for good ignition anyway. I suppose it could work out where 2 50 grn pellets might work OK for lead conicals and a 50 & a 30 might work OK for round balls. However, Pyrodex pellets cost twice as much as loose powder and I honestly don't see where they have any kind of advantage in a rifle.

Harry

TKO · « **Reply #7 on:** August 31, 2004, 11:39:26 AM »

harryo,

Currently, my best (most accurate) load is 130 grains of FFG Goex behind a 295 grain PowerBelt HP. With the factory open sights, off the bench it is 2 1/4 inch accurate at 100 yards. I started at 80 grains and went up ten grains at a time to 150 grains.

Round balls have been a different story. I haven't found a load yet that shoots nearly as well. I think that I need a thicker patch with the .490 ball, right now I am up to .015 patches and it looks like I will be going a little thicker.

harryo · « **Reply #8 on:** August 31, 2004, 05:37:57 PM »

It sounds like you've got a winner. I don't know one thing about PowerBelts, except what they are. I've never used one myself. That is a very good group, with open sights, and plenty accurate enough for hunting. 130 grns of Goex behind a 295 grn projectile will certainly do the job, too.

T/C has used a pretty shallow depth of rifling(.005-.006) in their 1/48' twist barrels, in the past. I assume the FireStorm uses the same. My T/C barrels like a tight patch and ball. The most accurate load for a .50 Renegade that I own is a .495 ball, .015 patch and 70 grains of FFg. Others have noted that T/Cs seem to dislike pillow ticking patches and both my .50 & .54 Renegades, with T/C barrels, shoot better with plain cotton patches .015 thick. The .54 likes a .535 ball and 85 grns of FFg. Both start to lose accuracy when loaded with heavier charges, probably because of the shallow, 1/48" rifling.

TKO · « **Reply #9 on:** September 02, 2004, 10:31:32 AM »

harryo,

I think that I will try a 0.020 patch with my .490 balls and see what happens. I think that might turn the trick.

Thanks

harryo · « **Reply #10 on:** September 03, 2004, 05:14:48 AM »

That might help or you might need to try a .495 ball. You want the patched ball to fit tight and you can do this by either going to a thicker patch, with the smaller ball, or going to a larger ball and an appropriate patch. Each gun is different on what woks well for it but I have always had better results by going to a larger ball. As a general rule, the tighter the fit the more accurate it will be. Of course you don't want to end up having to hammer the patched ball down the barrel, although I have heard that some target shooters do that.

Also, make sure you start with light powder loads(maybe 60 grns) and work up slowly, 5 grains at a time. Barrels with shallow rifling, like the T/Cs, will really lose accuracy quickly if using too heavy of a powder charge. I would imagine that your optimum charge for round balls will be well under the 130 grns you are using with the PowerBelts.

Harry

TKO · « **Reply #11 on:** September 06, 2004, 05:19:31 PM »

harryo,

I am looking for an inexpensive load to shoot with the round balls. I will, as always, work up a load (been doing that with metallic cartridges since I was 12). Whatever shoots the tightest group with the projectile that fits the task is my mantra.

cbagman · « **Reply #12 on:** September 07, 2004, 02:23:32 PM »

TKO.. Try some patches from old blue jeans. It will mike .020 to .022..I use them hunting and for meets. cbagman

TKO · « **Reply #13 on:** September 07, 2004, 04:50:32 PM »

cbagman,

I may just give that a try.

Thanks