Author Topic: Picture of Mystery powder (Read 905 times)

mag41vance · « **on:** September 01, 2004, 01:10:33 AM »

From my previous thread:
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=40723

John Y Cannuck · « **Reply #1 on:** September 01, 2004, 01:24:36 AM »

Best of luck. It's obviously very dangerous to guess at powder. There are so many types out there, even a whole pile of surplus powders.
I thinki'd put it on the shelf for a bit, and lacking evidence of it's real identity, scrap it.

mag41vance · « **Reply #2 on:** September 01, 2004, 01:41:21 AM »

Quote from: John Y Cannuck

Best of luck. It's obviously very dangerous to guess at powder. There are so many types out there, even a whole pile of surplus powders.
I thinki'd put it on the shelf for a bit, and lacking evidence of it's real identity, scrap it.

The powder I'm trying to figure out is in some .41 magnum loads, it isn't a bulk lot I 'm trying to figure out. Check out my previous thread Titled,"Help me figure it out"
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=40723

Questor · « **Reply #3 on:** September 01, 2004, 11:38:11 AM »

Don't sue me or try something koo-koo, but my guess is AA#5. It's roughly spherical and the grains vary in size.

BCB · « **Reply #4 on:** September 01, 2004, 12:39:19 PM »

mag41vance,
If indeed the charge is 20 grainsIT AINT AA#5. Twenty grains of that stuff would be a DOUBLE CHARGE! I suspect that would be enough of that powder to cause problems!!!

Since there are only a few powders that would allow a 20 grain safe load with the 210 grain bullet, it could be one of them. They are Winchester 296, H-110, 2400 and Winchester 630. Although greater than a maximum load, someone might have stuffed that much AA#9 in it also. Winchester 630 has not been around for a few years, but if they are older reloads, that is a very good possibility. A Winchester powder would be my guess, note I said guess

So, in all safe loading practices, I would really not try to identify the MYSTERY powder, but start with a good slow burner, as the ones mentioned, and work up your own load as recommended in a good reloading manual or two or three. Compare data and go from there. Good-luckBCB

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #5 on:** September 01, 2004, 02:13:34 PM »

Lil'Gun?

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/41remmag.php

IntrepidWizard · « **Reply #6 on:** September 01, 2004, 02:25:58 PM »

Do not mess with a unknown powder under any circumstances,a guess even could be disaterous.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #7 on:** September 01, 2004, 08:12:10 PM »

I'd forgotten about WW 630. That's a real possibility, but it's long gone.

Is L'il Gun a ball powder, Jack? I've never worked with that one.

There's absolutely nothing dangerous about what Vance is doing. He has some elderly commercial reloads he knows to give superb performance. He's pulled and weighed a charge and is looking to see if an available canister powder matches it. If he finds a similar powder that is used in a 20 grain charge in the .41 Mag, he'll get some and work up a load in the usual manner.

Safe as a skunk in church.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #8 on:** September 01, 2004, 10:59:44 PM »

it looks like wc820 or aa9 which i beleive are the same powder. And the 20 grain weight charge would work out to a heavy load in a .41 mag.

BCB · « **Reply #9 on:** September 01, 2004, 11:21:35 PM »

Since he indicated that he purchased the Ruger and the handloads about 8 years ago, was Lilgun around then? I thought it was a more recent introduction

I have AA#9, AA#9S, and WC-820 and from the photos he shows, it appears the powder has a bit more sheen and may be a bit bigger than the three I just mentioned. It is very difficult to tell from a photo that doesn't show gridlines of know size. It is my opinion that the 3 I mentioned are the same powder?

Regardless, I still think it is a Winchester powder because of the sheen. Accurate powders appear more dust-like and actually will leak around the cylinder in my Lee powder measurer. The Winchester powders I have used never have, indicating the Accurate powders are much finer in texture.

Density would be a good help trying to identify the powder also. But it would be difficult to calculate the density. Velocity would be helpful also. (Or did you list the velocity and I overlooked it?)

Again, I would just start with a good slow burning powder--its obvious that is what it is for sureand go from there. Youll probably hit on an accurate load again. Again, good-luckBCB

mag41vance · « **Reply #10 on:** September 02, 2004, 12:01:17 AM »

Quote from: BCB

Density would be a good help trying to identify the powder also. But it would be difficult to calculate the density. Velocity would be helpful also. (Or did you list the velocity and I overlooked it?)

Again, I would just start with a good slow burning powder--its obvious that is what it is for sureand go from there. Youll probably hit on an accurate load again. Again, good-luckBCB

All very good suggestions. I need to chronograph the reload, and that will give me a good qualifier for the load.
LeftoverDJ is very aware of what I'm trying to do, as I have been picking his brain and a few others about this mystery powder. The fact it is 20 grains narrows down the possibilities.

I do appreciate all the suggestions. I will compare each one with printed data to be sure I'm safe.
RV

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #11 on:** September 02, 2004, 01:19:34 AM »

Quote from: Leftoverdj

Is L'il Gun a ball powder, Jack? I've never worked with that one.

Lil'gun isn't spherical in shape but it's not extruded, disk, or torodial shaped either. It is kind of blocky like that pictured. Closest thing I can think of to the shape is Pyrodex 777 (THAT'S NOT A SUGGESTION THAT THIS IS PYRODEX OR TO SUBSTITUTE PYRODEX).

I just can't picture whether the kernals of Lil'gun are smaller in width than 296 as they seem to be in the picture. I'll have to compare the two.

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #12 on:** September 02, 2004, 01:34:54 AM »

Quote from: BCB

Since he indicated that he purchased the Ruger and the handloads about 8 years ago, was Lilgun around then? I thought it was a more recent introduction

Good catch. As far as I can tell Lil'gun was introduced in 1999.

Graybeard · « **Reply #13 on:** September 02, 2004, 10:15:10 AM »

To me it "looks" like AA9. But trying to identify a powder from a photo or even from comparison first hand with other powders is VERY RISKY business. I definitely do not recommend it.

PA-Joe · « **Reply #14 on:** September 02, 2004, 10:28:59 AM »

Does it have any marking tags mixed in? What colors and sizes are they?
Most powders are now tagged!

mag41vance · « **Reply #15 on:** September 02, 2004, 02:24:51 PM »

Quote from: PA-Joe

Does it have any marking tags mixed in? What colors and sizes are they?
Most powders are now tagged!

It is not a powder I have in stock. The mystery powder is powder pulled from a very accurate .41 mag reload I have.
If I ever came across a batch of unlabeled powder, I would not attempt to use it.
So far one suggestion that intrigues me is solo4100.
Does anyone here have any experience loading large capacity pistol cartridges with this powder. There is no data(that I can find) for such an application.
RV

Duffy · « **Reply #16 on:** September 03, 2004, 04:16:43 AM »

Hate to throw cold water on this but after going through all the trouble of finding out what it is theres no garantee that
the powder is still in production or that you'll get the same results from a new lot. It may have been a discontinued powder when they were loaded up also. I know it's a real bummer to find a exellent load and not be able to duplicate it.

mag41vance · « **Reply #17 on:** September 03, 2004, 10:54:20 AM »

Quote from: Duffy

Hate to throw cold water on this but after going through all the trouble of finding out what it is theres no garantee that
the powder is still in production or that you'll get the same results from a new lot. It may have been a discontinued powder when they were loaded up also. I know it's a real bummer to find a exellent load and not be able to duplicate it.

Well Duffy,
I suppose all that is true. BTW is the sky falling, cause it sure looks strange today! :wink:
I just love solving a mystery.
vANCe

BCB · « **Reply #18 on:** September 03, 2004, 12:30:52 PM »

mag41vance,
From what I have read on the Solo4100 it is a tad slower than AA#9. That is an interesting suggestion that it might be the mystery powder! I suspect if you e-mail Accurate Arms, they might be able to come up with data for using it in a 41 Magnum. It was designed for the 410 shotgun. I suspect they might tell you to start with #9 data and work up slowly. Might be worth an e-mail to see if it puts you in the 20 grain range for the 210 bullet. If indeed it is a bit slower than #9, that would certainly put you in the 20 grain range. Good-luckBCB

rickyp · « **Reply #19 on:** September 04, 2004, 03:28:58 PM »

I could only find 2 powders that list a max in the 20 range (H110 and 296)

But I did find quite a few that listed the max in the 18-19 as max. It is very possable the person that made the reloads didn't stick to the manuals and loaded them somewhat warm or maybe even hot.

The best and smartest thing you can do is get ahold of the person that made them and ask for the note, If you have a lot of extra time and money you could get in the manuals and try every powder that list a load in the 20 grs. rangs and see what works best.

Duffy · « **Reply #20 on:** September 04, 2004, 05:51:28 PM »

Well Vance so far I haven't been hit with anything yet!
Just that I've gone through the same rig-a-ma-roll and came up with a big dud. Hope you have better luck, and more time!

Ryan

grizz · « **Reply #21 on:** September 05, 2004, 01:53:19 AM »

I am not sure what it is.. If you want to I would think you can send that to a powder company so they can test the burn rate and match it up to one of their powders or at least get ya very close?