deer hunting with .360 1500 fps..

[fffffg]

youv helped me before here and ive got a new problem..  i gave up on paper patch for drilling with 200 grain .358 pure lead bullets as they were stripping, so if im goint to use harder lead i might as well use cast bullets...  im buying  antimony hardened brinell  11 bullets.. im getting about 1500 feet persecond with decent accuracy, finnally..  i know they are a littel hard and got a hollow pointer from  forster..  i may have gone too deep with the hollow point  but i shot  a stack of books this moringing and in one and in a one and half inch of hard cover books each one inch thick,the bullet disintegrated..  pure lead 200 grain bullts holds together better makes the same size hole about, at one inch and goes in holding together better thru 3 1/2 inches..  its all very strange to me..  im worried about getting a good lung shot load and the bullet not holding up with a shoulder hit..  maybe these hard bound books are too hard for testing?, maybe the bulllet comming apart would be fine for deer up to 100 yards and in brushy conditions..  im going to try  half the depth of hollow point next.. hopefully this will get me in a better bullet/pennetration situation.. dave.

[Lone Star]

Dry paper is an extreme test of bullet integrity, and most bullets will come apart in that medium.  Wet books are a much better test, but even that is not correlative to many of the shots you take at deer....

How is a solid stack of soaking wet paper going to simulate a lung shot where 90% of what the bullet passes through are air-filled sacks?  The paper may better simulate muscle tissue, but where do you shoot a deer requiring the bullet to penetrate 14+" of solid muscle?   Expansion testing is an interesting and fun passtime, but what you think you learn from it is flawed.  Even ballistic gelatin does not simulate lung tissue or bones, but it is the standard for this type of study in the forensic field.  

Bottom line, brinnel 11 is okay for your bullets; the antimony has made them brittle but that's okay.  Drill the hollowpoint deep enough that it can be counted on  to blow off causing major tissue damage, leaving the remainder of the bullet for penetration.  This is not unlike a Nosler Partition bullet's performance, and they have a pretty good reputation.  I've used wheelweight bullets I hollowpoint myself for years and the performance is very good - but all bullets like this I've used were .451" and larger.

[JoeLansing]

Dry books?  I usually look at it this way.  If I take a big knife and try to stab a dry book, how much penetration will I get compared to stabbing a deer carcass?  It's not even close to the same.  Soaking a few phone books for a while are a much better comparison, but still not right.  The other thing to consider is wasted energy.  The bullet that goes to pieces hitting the shoulder and has no exit wound has used all ???ft/lbs of it's energy on the deer.  The bullet that passes through has wasted whatever energy it had left upon exit.  I used to hunt deer with a 30.06, but too many ran after a solid hit.  Now I use a 50cal smokepole.  The 295gr hollow points don't hit the deer with as much engergy as the 30.06 can boast, but so much more is spent inside bambi that they fall over in their tracks much more often.  Just my rantings and observations.  -  Joe

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

That's too bad about the paper-patching not working.  I've been having good sucess with my .357 magnum and paper patched bullets.

It's comforting to hear that even under extreme conditions them paper-patched beauties still hold together.

Get's me fired up to start hunting with 'em this season.

What do you mean by "striping"?  Is your paper patch not far enough forward on the ogive?

My very first attempt at paper patching was dismal accept for the fact that there was no lead.  The best advice I got was to use a powder that allows 100% load density.  I swiched from Unique to Lil' Gun and never looked back.  My Blackhawk throws 158 grainers at 1500+fps.  I forgot what I got on paper, but I know I was bursting milkjugs at 25 yards, one-handed and I didn't miss any more than I would have expected under the circumstances.

I recently tried paper-patching 200 grainers, except out of a '92 lever action.  The velocity was 1575fps, and accuracy was again good.  Pop cans were vanishing off the rail at 40 meters, offhand.

Again, once I switched to something with 100% load density I immediately saw my groups shrink and the bits of paper were much larger than the confetti that was coming out with the Unique.  I'm convinced the solid powder hitting the back of the bullet bumps it harder than a compressable air space.  This makes the bullet seal better and preserves the integrity of the paper patch.

But if you can't make it work, you gotta go with what's accurate.