Author Topic: Patched balls vs. Conicals (Read 967 times)

New Hampshire · « **on:** September 06, 2004, 01:50:39 AM »

The new Lyman Deerstalker should be in Tomorrow. It has a 1:48" twist and (from what I was told,) shallow rifling. This is supposed to be better suited for conicals, right? Id like to keep shooting patched balls, but if I dont get good accuracy out to 50 yards Ill have no choice. I know different powders and combos and such will have an affect on how they shoot, but with this twist and the shallow rifling what is a general idea that you can give me on what to expect for accuracy using patched balls? And what are some good conicals to try if the balls are not the best choice? This is a harder decision than it sounds because unfortunately I cant do any heavy testing. ML season is the end of October, and my range has been closed due to a legal battle. I dont know when it will re-open though. There is a place I can go to do some short shooting sessions at, but because of the neighbors the owners of the property ask that the shooting be kept to sighting in and test shooting. So you can see I need to make an acceptable choice and hope it suits me.
Sorry for putting out such a tough question.
Brian M.

roundball · « **Reply #1 on:** September 06, 2004, 02:41:11 AM »

Better be careful...some native New Hampshire-ites might take it personal buying a Lyman while living in the shadow of TC's plant - :lol:

Unfortunately, there are a number of 'old wives tales' in every sport, and the notion that round balls don't shoot well in a 1:48" twist barrel is at the top of the list of muzzleloading's old wives tales...right along with the claim that round balls are not effective on deer size game, etc.

I have TC's 1:48" standard barrels and TC's 1:66" round ball barrels in .45, .50, and .54calibers...and using my full power round ball hunting loads, there is hardly a noticeable difference between them.

Sitting in a small chair to simulate a tree stand, my 1:48 flintlocks shoot cloverleafs at 50yds, using 90grns Goex FFFg (120grns FFg), oxyoke wonder wads, TC .018" prelubed pillow ticking patches, Hornady or Speer round balls...

New Hampshire · « **Reply #2 on:** September 06, 2004, 03:02:45 AM »

Thanks for the quick reply, roundball. Im not too worried about catching flak. Heck, if T/C wants to send me over a Renegade or Hawken for what I paid for the Lyman ($206) I will gladly shoot T/C :-D ! But to be fair (and I know the Traditonal guys dont want to hear it,) someday I will get the 209x50 Bbl for my Encore. For now though, the Lyman I see as a lifelong hunting companion. Its gonna stay clean, pristine, and it will slay many a deer :lol: .
As for the main topic. I will probably eventually test an assortment of conicals and patch/ball assortments. But thats gonna have to wait till I get back into the club. Ill give the patched balls the once over real good and see how they preform for me. I can live with "good enough" for this year at least.
Brian M.

roundball · « **Reply #3 on:** September 06, 2004, 03:20:15 AM »

I took these with Hornady round balls last season...(.440's, .490's, .530's)

.54cal 8 pointer - 230grn round ball - 45yds
.50cal 8 and 7 pointers same morning - 180grn round ball 60 & 35 yds
.45cal 6 pointer - 128grn round ball - 55yds

http://www.members.aol.com/wjcutbush/54cal8pointer.jpg

http://www.members.aol.com/wjcutbush/50cal8and7pointers2.jpg

http://www.members.aol.com/wjcutbush/45cal6pointer.jpg

filmokentucky · « **Reply #4 on:** September 06, 2004, 05:54:07 AM »

Hey New Hampshire- Now when you say 209x50 barrel would that be a barrel 209 inches long by .50 caliber or the other way 'round? Inquiring
minds want to know, I'm sure. While it might be a tad muzzle heavy, the
obvious power advantages are probably worth the slight inconvenience. I
tink I want want one!

New Hampshire · « **Reply #5 on:** September 06, 2004, 07:49:22 AM »

Yeah filmokentucky, that there is a 209" long bbl, but the 50 is for weight.....as in 50 lbs

. You need to carry it around on a cart like them civil war artillery pieces :-D . Hmmmm theres an idea. I wonder if anyones tried using a Black Powder mortar or cannon to hunt deer :eek: .

roundball, them there are some nice lookin deer. Bet they were good tastin too :wink: .
Brian M.

filmokentucky · « **Reply #6 on:** September 06, 2004, 10:16:01 AM »

Don't know if anybody has actually hunted deer with a cannon or mortar, but there is a gent who will make you a very nice cannon for a very reasonable price and he lives right in your neck of the woods, too.
Leonard Day bought a bronze swivel gun from him for well under two hundred dollars (it requires final finishing by the new owner) and it is a good looking piece of hardware. Periodically I think about buying one. The bore is maybe one and a quarter inches and the barrel is two feet or so long. I seem to recall that the bore is steel lined. The only problem with using one for hunting is that a lot of states restrict you to ten gauge or smaller. It certainly would be different, though.

Snowshoe · « **Reply #7 on:** September 07, 2004, 01:27:55 PM »

I have just worked up a load for my Deerstalker using Hornady Ball-ets, and 80g of Goex FFFg. It puts 3 shots inside of 2" at 80 yards, and it has plenty of recoil. I had been shooting .495 balls, a .15 th pillow ticking patch, and a wonder wad with 80g of Goex FFg. The load was accurate but the powder was old and under powered, with only 1230 fps on that load. I tried a bunch of loads to get more speed, but accuracy went south. I think I will stick with tha Ball-ets for now. Good luck with your Deerstalker, they are a nice hunting rifle, mine has 13 seasons on it.

filmokentucky · « **Reply #8 on:** September 07, 2004, 02:27:52 PM »

Snowshoe- could you describe these Ball-ets in a little more detail? I've heard of them but never seen them and I'm a bit curious about them.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** September 07, 2004, 04:25:07 PM »

Buffalo Bullet Ball-ets described...

http://www.chuckhawks.com/muzzleloading_bullets.htm

Basically, they look like a round ball in front with a knurled rear conical section, short and fat in relation to a normal conical.

Edit: Found a pic.

filmokentucky · « **Reply #10 on:** September 07, 2004, 05:05:06 PM »

Much obliged.

lostid · « **Reply #11 on:** September 07, 2004, 05:28:31 PM »

well New Hampshire, you can take it fer what ya want,,but those Lyman like a tight dry PRB combo to shoot well. Even pre-lubed ox yoke .020 with a .495 ball is too wet/slick for good accuracy over a hunting charge of 80-85grns of 2f true bp or t7.(or equivilant)
The greasey ox-yoke is the overkill in the above combo. Try a dry .020 patch with .495 ball and applie any of the other lubes you have learned of and/or have to hand lightly aka; just a little bit. You'll have too "stuff" the load, not "slide it down" nor does it need to be "hammered"!. Just a good,dry, tight, combo.

If you do your part you'll get 1 hole at 50,, and 5" or under at 100 using iron sights.. ya kin argue all ya want,I'll not rebute to ya..I seen it and done it too many tymes for anyone to have a "special" gun that's different. Lyman ain't T/C,, they's Lyman,, Lyman gun's like dry/tight fittin PRB. If ya gotta try conicals then use short ones,,
p.s. Ball-ets suck in 1-48,,,go a head try'm,no skin off my butt. your money,,your tyme..

luck too ya,,best wishes,,,

New Hampshire · « **Reply #12 on:** September 08, 2004, 03:00:12 PM »

Thanks for the tips lostid. When it comes time to give her the real good runthrough Ill be sure to try the combos listed.
Brian M.