Author Topic: hunting gun (Read 2005 times)

billy · « **on:** September 06, 2004, 10:54:04 AM »

What is your favorite hunting gun and load for deer size game,from 50 yards to 300 yards?

Lawdog · « **Reply #1 on:** September 06, 2004, 01:02:46 PM »

billy,

Quote

What is your favorite hunting gun and load for deer size game,from 50 yards to 300 yards?

Easy. My Ruger M77V in .25-06 with it's Burris 6x-24x44mm scope with a Lee Dot. Load is a Nosler 115 gr. Partition ahead of 54.6 gr. of IMR-7828 for 3,150 fps.. I use this combination for hunting the brush/timber country of Northern California, Nevada, Oregon, etc. and has accounted for many Mule and Blacktail bucks over the years. Although this year I will trying the new Barnes 100 gr. TSX ahead of 50.2 gr. of RE 22 for 3,453 fps.. Small groups and tight lines to all. Lawdog

crawfish · « **Reply #2 on:** September 06, 2004, 01:06:02 PM »

I use a handgun, revolver, any number of makes and models in .41RemMag or a Contender in .41RemMag or a .41 caliber wildcat. Hunting load is a 250g cast from CPBT or BearTooth with enough 2400 to produce 1150-1250fps. Range is self-imposed at 30 yards or less.

huntsman · « **Reply #3 on:** September 06, 2004, 01:39:29 PM »

M96 Swedish Mauser sporter in 6.5x55 with bold trigger and high-comb stock topped with a Bushnell Elite 3200. Load is 36 grains of AXMR-2495 behind 129 gr Hornady Interlock. Fun to shoot and accurate gun, bullet is perfect on whitetails.

JPSaxMan · « **Reply #4 on:** September 06, 2004, 01:58:03 PM »

Just got done sighting in my 700 ADL .243. Groups weren't that hot at 100 yds. but when I pulled them in to 50, they were a little less than 2". Hopefully that'll kill a deer this year (or two) :grin:

These groups were with 100 grain Core-Lokts.

7magWoodsman · « **Reply #5 on:** September 06, 2004, 04:27:39 PM »

Quote from: Fishman029

Just got done sighting in my 700 ADL .243. Groups weren't that hot at 100 yds. but when I pulled them in to 50, they were a little less than 2". Hopefully that'll kill a deer this year (or two) :grin: These groups were with 100 grain Core-Lokts.

You need to check your rifle over for loose screws and maybe hairline fractures in you rings...if you have a synthetic stock make sure you didn't over tighten the stock...maybe borrow a scope from someone and make sure the scope itself is not bad...if all that does not show any positive results try a different load...try Federal Premiums, Hornady Custom, or Remington's Premier line...

"most" of the 700's I have had experience with will shoot 2" groups out to roughly 200 yards if the shooter does his part...but I have heard a few negative comments on Remington's accuracy since they started using the "sleeved" barrels...

If all else fails I would take it to a gunsmith so he can give it a look see.

Good Luck.

Stay Safe. Happy Shooting/Hunting.

7magWoodsman · « **Reply #6 on:** September 06, 2004, 04:49:02 PM »

Quote from: billy

What is your favorite hunting gun and load for deer size game,from 50 yards to 300 yards?

Ruger M77 7mm Rem. Mag.
This year I am going to use Remington Premier 140gr. CORE-LOKT ULTRA Bonded, but if for some reason I don't like what the ULTRA Bonded does to the deer, I will go back to the regular 150gr. CORE-LOKT, which has never failed me for Whitetail, or the Federal Premium 150gr. Nosler Solid Base(I use Federal Premium 160gr. Partitions if there is a chance I will see a wild hog during the hunt.)...I have always liked Hornady 154gr. Soft Point Interlock and the 162gr.BTSP as well.
Whatever works in you gun is best!

Stay Safe. Hunting/Shooting.

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** September 06, 2004, 06:04:02 PM »

Quote

Just got done sighting in my 700 ADL .243. Groups weren't that hot at 100 yds. but when I pulled them in to 50, they were a little less than 2". Hopefully that'll kill a deer this year (or two) These groups were with 100 grain Core-Lokts.

You are JUST PULLING OUR LEG, right? Please tell me you are. Two inch groups at 50 yards? Now if that were an iron sighted handgun I'd say you're doing pretty good. But a scoped rifle? You got some real problems there that need to be worked out before season begins.

My Browning LW 243 generally turns in groups of 0.4" to 0.6" with an occasional one closer to an inch at 100 yards but darn few over 0.8" at 100 yards. This is with a wide variety of both factory ammo and reloads. It don't even open up to 2" at 200 yards.

Tell us more about the groups and what they look like and such if you're serious and maybe we can help you figure out what's going on.

JPSaxMan · « **Reply #8 on:** September 07, 2004, 01:28:37 AM »

Oh boy oh boy am I feelin some pressure :oops: . Well, fellas, lemme put it like this. When I started firing 3 shot groups at 100 yds it almost seemed the gun would throw bullets. Not only that but the bench I was shooting from was not 100% rock solid (because of the equipment we had...my companions did not have a bench....I guess I'm just gonna have to wait until the gun club's sight in day for the final decision). But even out at 100 yds the 2 shots would be fairly close to the bulls eye but the third shot would be 3"-4" across the paper. And I've read of these guns. They have a disease :wink: sometimes it curable...other times it isn't. So...I'm just gonna have to wing it (not only that but it's starting to get a little late to start screwing around....time is limited in going up to the range nowadays :? ). But I have to say I agree with GB and 7Mag, that's pretty awful (kicks self in arse repetadely)

7magWoodsman · « **Reply #9 on:** September 07, 2004, 01:44:35 AM »

Fishman,
Have you shot this rifle before? Did you have the same results? If you have never had a problem until now I would bet it is something simple.

Sometimes the scope bases can be loose, but you can not tell by shaking, but it will throw your groups out of wack just as you described yours doing, that is the reason I love my M77 so much, one(4) less screws to worry about. Did you use loctite when you attached the bases to the rifle?

You are right, it is getting kind of late to start toying with it now, but I would surely fix it before I took a chance on wounding a deer.
Is there not somewhere else you can shoot at besides the range? a creek bottom or something? And the bench problem, that is not something that will make the rifle fail that bad, if it does you need to practice from stumps and trees more anyway......I can shoot natural(without using my scope/sights)and "almost" get a 2" group at 50 yards, you really NEED to get your rifle fixed before season.

I sincerely hope you get this problem sorted out.

Good Luck and Stay Safe.

Graybeard · « **Reply #10 on:** September 07, 2004, 05:35:22 AM »

Most of the Remington ADLs of my experience (those with the plastic stocks) are really shooters. Sub inch 100 yard groups being common and 1/2" groups not at all uncommon at 100 yards.

Two close and one wide can be many things.

1. Shooter error. Have you had someone else shoot it and seen it do same?

2. Ammo. Inconsistent ammo can for sure cause this but if ammo generally you'll luck up from time to time and get a decent three shot group.

3. Bedding. Pull the metal from stock and see what's going on. Any burnished spots where stock is obviously rubbing? Check to see if you have uniform clearance on both sides along barrel. Only point that should be touching is the factory pressure point out near end of stock and the first 2"-3" near action. Are action screws tight?

4. Something loose. Pull scope and make sure all screws holding base or bases are rock solid tight. Make sure base or bases don't move. If screws bottom out they can leave base loose. Put it all back together and made sure all is tight.

5. Scope. Scopes fail. Have you another to try?

Have you and this rifle ever done better? Have you tried other ammo? Has someone else ever shot it and seen how they do?

Just a few things to think over in fixing the problem.

mountainview · « **Reply #11 on:** September 07, 2004, 07:01:57 AM »

Quote from: billy

What is your favorite hunting gun and load for deer size game,from 50 yards to 300 yards?

Whoa! That's like asking me which of my children is my favorite or what is my favorite tool .... a bit too much like the Damoclean knot for me... :?

Let me see though, my 30-06/150 gr would work, then again my 7mm/140 gr is more than up to the job but so is my 25-06/120 gr all in Core-Lokts. But I am eyeing a new 243 so...... Decisions, decisions, decisions :wink:

Best solution I can come up with is to compromise and tailor the gun to the job at hand. My 7mm is lighter and shorter which equates to still hunting for me while the 30-06 and 25-06 are longer bbls and a bit heavier which is fine for hunting off the stand and over openings.

On the Remington posts - I have not come across a Rem 700 that would not shoot 1" groups or better at 100 yds. The problem was usually in scope/mounts or choice of ammo and after being taken care of, the rifle would do what most Rem 700s do, drive tacks

Safe shooting.

JPSaxMan · « **Reply #12 on:** September 07, 2004, 12:45:04 PM »

Well guys I'm pretty sure the gun is in working order. Even though someone else shot it before I did, it could very well be me. And no...I've had this rifle for 3 years and has had better groups with the same ammo and has cleanly killed several deer. So I'm not worried about wounding deer...and I'm still not convinced to revamp all options with minimal time before the season (and trying to juggle work and etc)...but I might just take a whole year next year and just work with it. Use different ammo, have it re-checked, etc. I'm pretty sure it would be worth it.

MGMorden · « **Reply #13 on:** September 07, 2004, 03:51:47 PM »

Quote from: Fishman029

Well guys I'm pretty sure the gun is in working order. Even though someone else shot it before I did, it could very well be me. And no...I've had this rifle for 3 years and has had better groups with the same ammo and has cleanly killed several deer. So I'm not worried about wounding deer...and I'm still not convinced to revamp all options with minimal time before the season (and trying to juggle work and etc)...but I might just take a whole year next year and just work with it. Use different ammo, have it re-checked, etc. I'm pretty sure it would be worth it.

If you have another more accurate rifle I'd take that out right now and try to get that 700 shooting a little better before taking it out hunting. The range is the "play" zone. You can try out your loads, etc, without too much trouble. If you can't get the gun to shoot that day then no harm no foul. In the field though, if I don't have 100% confidence in any particulr gun, it won't come with me (which is why my SKS will never come hunting. 7" groups at 100 aren't exactly encouraging).

JPSaxMan · « **Reply #14 on:** September 07, 2004, 04:32:59 PM »

Well, I'll do all I can but I can't revamp the whole damn rifle now. I'll get a more solid rest, probably try again to sight it in 2 or 3 more times before the season is in. If I start fooling around w/ different ammo, I could be asking for trouble (and lost $$$). And no, I don't have another rifle. So...that one will be my rifle, and if it isn't shooting dimes at 100 yds...oh well...I ain't huntin dimes :-D . That's another whole can of worms full of debate and heat right there; also known as the accuracy fallacy. Some don't feel a need to put 3 shots inside a dime's space if you're not hunting dimes. Even tho that would be nice, you all kno how tedious it is. So...why really do it if you don't have to? Just a thought.

Graybeard · « **Reply #15 on:** September 07, 2004, 05:34:40 PM »

Quote

Just got done sighting in my 700 ADL .243. Groups weren't that hot at 100 yds. but when I pulled them in to 50, they were a little less than 2". Hopefully that'll kill a deer this year (or two)

Quote

So...why really do it if you don't have to? Just a thought.

Let me make a stab at answering that last question quoted above based on that first comment above that.

It is true you do not need MOA for deer killing. A prime example is my wife's Rem. 7 in 7-08. Since day one it has hardly ever bettered 1.5" to 1.75" at 100 yards. It is fairly consistent in that range but has gone over 2" a few times also. BUT consistency is the key. That rifle has never missed on game and never needed a second shot with three of us using it in several states on all sorts of game over a span of over 25 years. So it's proof you don't need MOA to kill game.

BUT you say your rifle has done better with same ammo. This calls into question WHY it is now doing about 4 MOA or worse. Sure a rifle that will CONSISTENTLY put all bullets in 4 MOA is a pretty fair 100 yard deer killer IF you are a really fine shot and use only steady solid rests when hunting. But it sure don't leave much margin for error for poor shooting or a poor rest or buck fever.

My biggest concern is that it is not now doing what it has always done. If from day one it had been tossing them at 4 MOA and still is then at least it would be consistent. That it isn't means something has changed. What and by how much is the concern. If it is a minor bedding problem then it likely won't get worse. If the barrel needs cleaning then that sure shouldn't take all that much of your time. Yes that can cause lousy accuracy as you are seeing. If it is a scope going bad it could be you can't hit a deer at 10 yards when the time comes. If it is a loose screw in base or rings again it will likely get worse and it very well can cause you to miss or wound and lose your deer. Those are the reasons those of us who've been doing this for 50 years or so are trying to convince you it really is worth the trouble.

In the end it really is your decision and no one can make it for you. Just how close is hunting season anyway? Over 30 days? Over 60 days? That's a lot of time either way.

If you will take a pencil and mark on your scope tube where the rings are and make another pair of vertical lines that meet on one ring and scope body for right to left twist when you put it back most likely you'll not even have to make a scope adjustment IF nothing is wrong. But if something is wrong you'll have to resight. That should take all of 5 rounds or so.

Is the wide bullet always mostly vertical? Or always mostly horizontal? Or at times both? Is it always the same direction? Does it happen EVERY time? When is the last time you cleaned ALL the copper fouling from the barrel. Note I said ALL OF IT.

My LW 243 will average right at 1/2" until it fouls. Then groups will open quickly to as much as 2" to 3" if I allow it to foul that badly. So usually when I see two groups over an inch with my known loads I clean it thoroughly. I then have to fire 2-3 rounds to get barrel back to shooting those tiny groups. Could be all you need to do is spend 30-45 minutes removing copper from the barrel.

7magWoodsman · « **Reply #16 on:** September 08, 2004, 02:00:06 AM »

Quote from: Fishman029

Well, I'll do all I can but I can't revamp the whole damn rifle now.

This reminds me of a time my cousin's ex-wife broke his beloved 700BDL .270 over a tree the night before modern gun deer season opened...
Luckily the barrel was still straight and we were able to find an old stock from a neighbor, although it had massive swelling and other signs from water damage in the bedding, so we had to attack it with a dremel, but we got it working and the barrel free-floating...
She also busted the cross hair loose in his scope and destroyed one of his rings...a fairly quick fix, although costly...
the gun still shot bad...3.5" 3 shot groups at 50 yards...we immediately thought the stock was to blame, so we swapped the stock with mine(from the rifle I was going to use the next morning), same problem...then we broke out the old magnifying glass and found a crack in the front base right beside the threads...a trip to Wal-Mart at almost 9:00pm the night before opening day, and we had the bases...we had to zero the rifle by propping a maglight to aim at a piece of notebook paper at 10:00pm, the night before gun season...after zeroing it, the rifle printed a 1.5" group at 100 yards, with the old water damaged reworked stock, braced on the side of a pickup...

Other people have been in much worse positions than you are in, with less time than you have, yet still fixed their rifles.

Take/Make the time to fix your rifle.

Don't worry about changing ammo, study on the other stuff, and be sure to go by Greybeards "checklist" especially the cleaning part.

Good Luck.

JPSaxMan · « **Reply #17 on:** September 08, 2004, 10:09:29 AM »

Fellas, I'm not sure if I have cleaned the COPPER out. I do clean the gun on a regular basis (after range sessions...b/c it is my beloved gun :-) ). I will try to do all that GB, and 7Mag...got a question for you. In the end of that chaotic moment in time...did your cousin in-law (or whatever :roll: )kill a deer? Would like to hear the end of that saga.

JPSaxMan · « **Reply #18 on:** September 08, 2004, 10:12:58 AM »

And another thing to ask. Would a fairly new scope (5 yrs.) be going bad? It's a Bushnell Sportsman. The scope was mounted by a professional gunsmith and I have checked the screws in the rings from time to time and have found no loosening at all. Another variable in the equation I suppose.

myronman3 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 08, 2004, 11:49:51 AM »

the base itself could be loose. i would remove the scope and check the base. i dont think a scope's age has much to do with how long it lasts. i think it has more to do with the amount of usage, the caliber (amount of recoil) and how it is made. being a bushnell, i wouldnt put it past the scope. but it might not be. i shoot a older simmons scope, the clarity is good and it performs flawlessly. so who is to say. about the only thing you can do is follow g.b.'s checklist and start eliminating possibilities.

longwinters · « **Reply #20 on:** September 08, 2004, 11:59:08 AM »

A neighbor of mine shot a 7m STW with a brand new Tasco scope today. After 10 shots the scope went black inside. Seems he said something like one of the lenses collapsed. Anyway, scopes can give up the ghost even though they are not old timers.

Long

Graybeard · « **Reply #21 on:** September 08, 2004, 12:37:04 PM »

Quote

And another thing to ask. Would a fairly new scope (5 yrs.) be going bad? It's a Bushnell Sportsman. The scope was mounted by a professional gunsmith and I have checked the screws in the rings from time to time and have found no loosening at all. Another variable in the equation I suppose.

Age alone has little to do with it. How it is mounted does. And jusst because it was "professionally" mounted sure don't mean it was done RIGHT. I think more professionally mounted ones are done wrong than right some times.

What type base/rings do you have? The windage adjustable rear/ turn in front? Lord please say no. I HATE those suckers. They've ruined more scopes than all the heavy kicking guns in the world. I'd think the base screws are what are the problem if you have any other type base/ring set up and could be with this type. That's a place to check.

Yes the scope could be bad. The Bushnell Sportsman line is a pretty good cheap scope but all scopes can go bad at most any time.

BTW I've had folks at my home range the night before deer season opened several times sighting in by flash light or head lights of their vehicle. Generally those who wait so long don't kill deer because that lack of preparation carries over to their hunting also. But not always. Some of they have killed deer the next day. Having my own range in my back yard sure helps me to not get into such a situation.

JPSaxMan · « **Reply #22 on:** September 08, 2004, 02:04:15 PM »

Well GB, I have traditional Weaver Mounts. I believe they are high mounts. I'm not sure what u mean by the windage adjustment. On the scope or somewhere else? :? The whole range thing is irrelevant b/c as soon as I can go again (which will be 2 or 3 more times before the season) I will try to toy around w/ it. I don't have a home range (I think my back yard is just shy of 80 yards and I don't have the equipment there...I'm kinda unsteady at a bullseye target w/ a bipod). So...let's just see what happens. I'll try to do as much as you said to do...I don't reload and I'm not exactly rolling in dough so it's hard to buy boxes upon boxes of ammo for target practice. Oh well. We'll see what happens

Graybeard · « **Reply #23 on:** September 08, 2004, 05:13:31 PM »

If you have Weaver bases that's fine. Ignore that particular part of my comments. Weaver makes none of that type I was referring to. You're far better off for not having the other type. BUT the Weaver screws can still work loose.

7magWoodsman · « **Reply #24 on:** September 08, 2004, 11:26:18 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard

Age alone has little to do with it. How it is mounted does. And jusst because it was "professionally" mounted sure don't mean it was done RIGHT. I think more professionally mounted ones are done wrong than right some times.

This is VERY TRUE. I am FAR from even being in the same ballpark as a "professional", but I still trust myself more than anyone when it comes to setting up my hunting equipment.

Quote from: Fishman029

7Mag...got a question for you. In the end of that chaotic moment in time...did your cousin kill a deer?

Yes he did...The sun was just breaking the horizon that Saturday morning, when I heard him ignite the primer in that old .270, I remember that buck, because he carried the antlers around for years in use as rattling horns...it was a pretty nice 9 pointer, but it had 2 broke points, nice bodied mature buck, he was, he shot him at around 150 yards if I remember correctly....that same afternoon he killed a doe...they were both in Kentucky...later on that year, while hunting in Tennessee, I remember helping him drag two more bucks out, but I believe he had already replaced the water-downed reworked stock by then...it was years ago, so I can not remember if he actually killed those two in Tennessee with the same old stock or not, regardless I am for sure he did it with that same old Remington 700 BDL .270 that his evil-harlot had attempted to wrap around the tree...He probally killed more Whitetail on top of that, but as I said, it has been years ago...

Also I would like to add that my whole family tried to get him to use another rifle and even offered to pool some money to buy him a new one, but nope, he was dead-set on getting his trusty .270 shooting again before the next morning, and with a little help, he did...

Quote from: Graybeard

BTW I've had folks at my home range the night before deer season opened several times sighting in by flash light or head lights of their vehicle. Generally those who wait so long don't kill deer because that lack of preparation carries over to their hunting also.

I agree as far as "weekend warriors" and the altogether unprepared go, but sometimes accidents and turns of fate can set even the prepared in a bad situation.

Timmy's (ex)wife didn't break his rifle until the actual day before gun season, if he had had the same problem sooner, he would have fixed it sooner, and he would have not made any excuses for not doing so.
Especially if he had at least a 75 yard backyard, a few pillows, and a kitchen chair to brace his rifle on....

You don't have to have a "bench" and a 500 yard shooting range to sight in or test the accuracy of a rifle, it just helps....Again I highly recommend for you to do your best to fix your rifle now, and save your range trips for practice, not quality control.

Stay Safe. Happy Hunting/Shooting.

cam69conv · « **Reply #25 on:** September 09, 2004, 07:25:54 AM »

Howdy der Fish,
Heres ma 2 cents,,,, Follow what ole greybeard is sayin and if ya cant figger it out I have a sporterized .303 british enfield that has ALWAYS been the substance of reliability for me....The guys around here call me head shot because of that old gun....I have her zeroed 1 inch high at 100 yards make fer 2 low at 200 with hornady light mags 180 grain I think they are...Might be 150's not sure but anyway ya aint that fer from me and ya can use it if ya need to....we have a LONG time till gun season here and I have several rifles ta choose from....Gonna take ma new baby out this year at tha farm.....444 Marlin...Just ordered the 265 grain Hornady's in light mag ....Hope it likes ta eat them...she sure shoots heck outta the 240 grain rem expresses but I aint a big fan of the lower end rem ammo...Has some bad experiances with the what I lovingly call corejunk but that on a different subj...If ya cant figger it out gimmi a holler...we will work somethin out and make sure ya have a dependable rifle...Cant be havin injured deer runnin around here...Cars are doin that enough :cry: Good luck , Lynn

The deerslayer · « **Reply #26 on:** September 13, 2004, 07:39:27 AM »

My vote is a .280 remington with winchester ballistic silvertips. I want to use a different bullet after the ballistics are gone because it just blows the heck out of a deer. :eek:

skb2706 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 14, 2004, 09:44:14 AM »

.260 Rem. Mtn Rifle LSS w 125 gr. Nosler Part. covers all the small stuff........

Graybeard · « **Reply #28 on:** September 14, 2004, 03:36:00 PM »

Quote

260 Rem. Mtn Rifle LSS w 125 gr. Nosler Part. covers all the small stuff........

I picked one of those up earlier this year and am in the process of getting loads worked up for it. Nosler is out of stock on the 125PTs at this time but I'll be getting some in the not too far distant future I hope. I too am thinking the 125 PT might be THE bullet for this rifle.

busman202002 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 20, 2004, 08:56:39 AM »

Hill-Country (TX) Custom .300 Win Mag on a Rem.700 action, 4.5x15 30mm tube Zeiss, 165gr. Seirra Game King@3200fbs. I know it maybe overkill on caliber and $$$ but those trophy's don't come around that often.
I shoot a lot yr. round at predators with it and not afraid to take a standing shot out to 450-500 yards.