cast or jacketed?

[Gallahad]

I know this must have been the topic of many a post here before, but in general(and your own experience) , do you get better accuracy out of cast or jacketed bullets out of a revolver?  I like to practice w/my hunting load, a LOT, but that gets pretty expensive w/jacketed bullets. Iv'e been working on a load w/hard cast, but cant get any accuracy out of em. Plus Ive dealt with leading. I thought cast bullets would also extend the life of the rifeling, leads softer than copper. Is this right?  At any rate, what do ya like best, jacketed or cast?

[Lloyd Smale]

bout all i shoot is cast anymore. You have to keep in mind that trying one brand and size of cast bullet is like trying one jacket design its pot luck as to if your gun will like it or hate it. As far as accuaracy goes its a toss up both can be made to shoot exellent in any good gun. As far as hunting goes ill take a cast bullet any day.

[WD45]

Like Lloyd said ... You just have to find the right load and cast will be just as accurate as any jacketed bullet. Not all jacketed bullets are created equall either. I have seen some jacketed / plated bullets leave copper fouling almost as bad as leading. Once you learn how to deal with leading and how to minimize it , it's not that much of a problem.
You can cast your own also which makes them even cheaper along with the ability to custom fit a bullet to a particular gun if you wish.
And cast bullets are just as effective at killing as jacketed  :grin:

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I shoot both.  But now my hunting bullet looks like it might be paper-patched.  Paper patched is every bit as cheap as casting your own, and it performs like a jacketed bullet, perhaps better.  With paper patched I just use the very same mold as I do for my regular cast bullets except I cast from a pot of plumber's lead instead of wheel weights.  That plumber's lead will flatten out real nicely, but hangs together giving nearly 100% weight retention at any normal handgun magnum velocity.  Of course the paper prevents any lead fouling.

The drawback is the time spent rolling your own paper patched bullets.  It really isn't bad though.  I treat it kinda like a woman does her knitting or cross-stitch.  I sit and roll bullets while watching a movie with the family, or having coffee at the kitchen table or whatever.  Pretty soon I have a box or two worth of patched bullets.

On the paper-patched forum there is mention of a patching machine - I'd like to get my hands on one.  

Though the bullet is the same, I can't say that my "practice" loads are the same as my hunting loads.  Due to the leading thing, the charge I use for a regular, naked cast bullet is nowhere near the same as I use for the same bullet wrapped in paper.

[Steve P]

I tried switching to jacketed in my Dan Wessson.  Tried Speers and Noslers.  Went back to my own cast.  More accurate.  Gas checked.  NO leading.  

My Rugers have never heard of jacketed bullets.  I think I will keep them that way.

Good luck in your choice.  

Steve  

[volshooter]

Like some of yall I like to shoot alot and jacketed bullets get expensive quick. I finally went to to commercial hard cast, they are very reasonable and are guaranteed not to lead @ 1500 fps. I get them from Tennessee Valley Bullets. They are excellent bullets in many cal. and very good shooters. BTW I shoot mostly WFP's that are not gas checked in my .44 and .454. Both are pushed around 1550fps with no fouling, I use WW296 to push them. Kinda cool, I shot a few 290 WFP in my SBH @ 65 yards the other day, I hung a heavy skillet on an old freezer. All shots went completely through skillet, freezer and some passed through 4x4's 20 feet behind freezer. I knew my .454 RB would do that but was surprised by the .44. I buy direct from TVB when I go to west TN hunting, only 5 miles out of my way, and save shipping. can't exactly remember but seems that 500 hard cast .44's cost me about $17. Once you get a hard cast load worked out you'll never shoot jacketed again. These babies will punch holes all the way through three deer standing together and probaly the fence post behind them. I take shoulder shots and everything goes down.
Rick

[Questor]

Jacketed bullets are generally more accurate than cast bullets, but this comparison only makes sense when precision shooting is concerned, as in target matches. For hunting, the choice is whether to get more penetration or more expansion.  Any decent cast bullet will give good accuracy if the gun "likes it".  

As an example, in the precision shooting game of bullseye, most shooters use cast bullets. The top shooters use jacketed bullets because they're good enough to need the extra advantage that a jacketed bullet gives them.  For most shooters, that expense would be a waste because their lower scores are not caused by poor bullet performance.

There is a cast bullet society that specializes in obtaining maximum accuracy from cast bullets.

[Graybeard]

Properly made cast bullets will shoot as accurately as jacketed. In handguns this is especially so. Dunno about centerfire rifles tho as I've not messed with those that much using cast and certainly no precision rifles.

[Questor]

Hey GB, I think we need a disclaimer about what it takes to make "properly" cast bullets. It's a real pain in the neck to sort the bullets by weight and use only those in a particular weight range for shooting.  The commercially cast bullets I use just aren't that uniform.  One of the top bullseye shooters in Iowa does use cast bullets but he has a very hard alloy and says that they have to be cast very hard to get top accuracy-- harder than commercially cast bullets.  

I use swaged bullets in my 45 because they're cheaper and they're good. They wouldn't be any good for hunting though. Weight variation is only about a tenth of a grain between 200 grain bullets.

[Graybeard]

Wal Rudy, for darn shore I ain't talking about those mass produced bevel based wonders most professional casters turn out. They are OK if you're plinking and really don't care whether they all go down range or off to the side somewhere.

I've honestly not seen the need to do quite as much sorting as you mention. Once long ago (back in the '70s) me and my shooting pardner and best friend Billy Doss (now deceased) were working together casting  bullets to shoot. Billy hated the work need to do this and really hated to lose a bullet once we cast it. So he had me run a series of tests and I did.

I took three batches of bullets from our last casting session. Batch one was those visually perfect ones that weighted plus or minus 1% or less of each other. Batch two were those that were visually fine but the weight was more than plus or minus 1% of nominal. Batch three were the visual culls. These were in many cases seriously deformed and flawed. Things like base and areas between lube grooves not properly filled out, holes in bases, noses wrinkled and on and on.

Guess which batch shot best at 25 yards? Batch three. Yup I couldn't believe it. Floored me. Even at 50 yards using iron sights I wasn't able to see a noticeable difference in favor of the best bullets.

So from that day until we stopped casting together many many years latter we never threw away another bullet once it was cast. He sized and libed and gas checked them and used them. You'd be amazed how many NRA silhouette matches he won with cull bullets.

Once we shot a match at Crystal Springs Club. Billy didn't have enough of one kind of ammo to shoot all forth shots so he saved his best to use at 100 yards and used a mixture of .38 Special wadcutters and semiwadcutters and a few round nose factory loads tossed in and the .357 Mag stuff was saved for the rams. He was using a Python.

There was another guy shooting really good using his long barrel S&W in .41 mag. The guy really thought no one was even close to him he was doing so well.

At the end of the first half (we shot 20 and then came back and did it again rather than shooting 10 of each while we were up at that range) Billy was straight after his first 19 shots. He turned to me and commented that Herb didn't even realize he was on his @$$. I said to him, "ya best shut up and turn around and shoot and not worry about Herb". He turned and fired and missed the only shot of the first round. He broke his concentration and rythm.

The second round he ran out of the .357 Mags and had to use some of that mixture of junk he had on the turkeys and rams and still finished with a 34 or 35 second behind Herb's score which I think was a 37 or 38. I took third a target or two behind Billy. Remember this was all iron sighted revolvers we were shooting.

I have a ton of stories of mine and Billy's days shooting competition of all sorts with shotguns, handguns and rifles. We spent over 20 years as running buddies and shooting pardners in addition to being best friends. We got into and out of a bunch of things in those days.

[LAH]

I spend my time shooting bullets, not weighing them. I've shot jacketed and lead that shot very, very well. I shoot lead because I'm always casting and just shoot out of what I sell to customers.

[Lloyd Smale]

Like graybeard and creaker say i found that at least at under 50 yards weighting and sorting bullets is a total waste of time. My buddy proved it to me many years ago when he took my ugliest rejects and sat down and shot inch groups with them.

[LAH]

Here, here Lloyd. I shoot the rejects from our casting business with good results.

[Gallahad]

Well thanks guys! that spured a lot of discussion. I went and bought a box of xtps, and my first load produced 2 1/2 inch groups at 35 big paces. I figure thats prettty good for an iron sighted, 6 inch blackhawk. Now not to make you cast bullet boys  :cry: but as a taxidermist, any cast loads will have to wait a while. Bear and deer archery are in full swing here in WI.  I really appreciate all the good info, It will come in usefull when I do work on cast loads! Lord Bless!

[Gun Runner]

My NMBLK 41 mag isant aware they make jacketed bullets for it! :roll: Have been running a 215grgc swc with 9grs, unique wlp primer. Couple weekends ago was out with son in law and another guy.
they were shooting rifles at a 10" log at 110 yds. Decided I could hit it also, so started cranking rounds at it. Did better with the 41 mag than they were with the rifles. Only jacketed I shoot in hand guns are for my 40 & 9mm.

Gun Runner

[sgtt]

I think sometimes it depends on the gun.  I have a S&W 657 that refuses to cooperate with anything but jacketed bullets.  I have tried at least 8 different bullet molds and lots of different powders.  ANY combination w/jacketed is very accurate.  I had a Dan Wesson 357 Max that caused the same frustration.   I have resigned myself to the fact that this gun is only going to shoot jacketed.  It is a matter of acceptance.  Well.....now that I think about it......I do need to do some casting this week.  Anyone remember where those 410 molds are...........?