Nine Fingers Robert says Yes.

[Robert]

Last summer an old gunsmith and good freind was telling me how inherently more dangerous tube magazine .22's were than one that takes a clip, told me of all the countless stories he had heard over the years of accidental discharge in 'UNLOADED' rifles. With a tube magazine, you can not see what is in the magazine, and one could get stuck.  All it takes is a very small peice of dirt or something, and you can work the action to empty it, but there is still a round in the magazine that can pop up at any time.
.......Anyway 3 days later, I shot off my pinkey with an unloaded 30 Remington Pump.  I wasnt cleaning it, I wasnt intending to shoot it, I had emptied the magazine and put the antique on my Elk Rack for display.  I was showing it to P.J. and demonstrated how the action worked, went to put it back and boom.   P.J. found two more in the tube magazine. They could not be seen.  With a removeable clip, or even a normal bolt action, you can look into the receiver even while the clip is in, and see at a glance whether it is loaded or not.
  Sorry about going on for so long, but it is a bit of a sore subject.
Any firearm should be treated with respect and  ALWAYS as if it is LOADED.  But some are definately more prone to accident, and a 'blind' magazine that you cannot see the shells is on the top of the list.

{Edited}...by the way...my finger was a small price to pay for a valuable warning.  I could have shot P.J. or my girlfreind, and would rather that I blew my head off.   A .30 Remington with a 150 gr. softpoint is very lethal at close range.

[Siskiyou]

OL TOM,

I suspect we are on the same page when it comes to firearm safety.  I believe most accidental discharges in the field happen in the unloading/loading process.  Back when I was teaching hunter safety we had some dummy rounds to teach loading and unloading of levers, pumps, bolts, ect.  A lot of action is avoided with a removable magizane.

For those that have a pump shotgun, there is a shell retainer in the under barrel magzine.  With the bolt all the way back, push the spoon up into the chamber.  Find the retainer just inside the tube, push it in and release the shell.  That means you are not jacking a round into the chamber and extracting it.  Less likely to have an accidental discharge. (Do not go into bedroom and shoot a hole in wall now!)

In some well worn W97 shotguns the hammer will not lock back and it follows the bolt home.  Bang.

Robert you are right about the .22's with the under barrel tube.  You can dump the roungs out of the tube, empty the chamber but there will still be a round on the carrier.  The next time the bolt is worked a rounded with be chambered.  I learn that lesson on Jack Rabbit Hill.  That does not happen with clip.  Oop's mag.

Safety first, then there is no need to be sorry!

Siskiyou

[Mainspring]

I'd say that detachable mags are safer, no doubt about it.  I have a blind magazine Mauser straight pull bolt action, and it really bugs me that I can't just pop the clip out.  I have to cycle each round into the chamber to unload the thing.

[Advocate]

Clip magazine type rifles are no safer than any other.   My  late best friend swore by them and I'll never foreget his last, heartfelt words to me:  "Be careful with that thing! It's LOADED!"

[Siskiyou]

Clearly the Brain must be in gear when handling or being around firearms, cars, men. women, and children.  It's like saying a SUV is at fault when the little car crosses the centerline and hits the SUV.

No matter what safety device is created by man, another can over come it.  But with the Brain in gear along with good equipment, man, woman, and child may survive.

The basic motto of all firearms training and handling is the gun is loaded.  Now that is not to hard to understand.

Siskiyou

[Siskiyou]

Ol Tom:

You sure pointed out what came to my mind when reading Advocate's post.  As a trained investigator I sure would like to see the police report on the accident that Advocate refer's to.  I have witness the trauma of both accidental and intentional gunshot wounds.  And the trauma of those that are involved but not injured.  I have also testified in criminal trials relating to those incidents.

In the terms of an accident be it vehicle, falling trees or firearms I want to know what happen, and if a repeat of that accident can be prevented.  There was a time many years ago that I would have to refill my first aid kit two or three times a day on weekends from vehicle accidents, but only three times in thirty some years for firearm injuries. (What's more dangerous cars or guns?)

As a gunowner, former Hunter Safety Instructor, and investigator, I want to know the who, what, when, where, why, and how regarding Advocate's incident.  Was the accident human or mechanical failure?  I sure would like to review the Police Report made on the shooting that Advocate refers to.  Any documents if there was a civil case so that I could come to my own conclusion.

Hunter's and L.E. officers are alway dealing with loaded guns.  A deer is shot and the successful hunter hands a partner his load rifle so that he can gut the deer.  He hands off the rifle and says, It is Load.  Does this result in an accidential discharge?  Not normally!  A police officer finds a loaded weapon at a crime scene.  Does this result in an accidential discharge.  Not normally!  As I say, I sure would like to read the Police Report.

Siskiyou

[Advocate]

There was no police report. It was a joke.

[Mainspring]

My point was that loading a rifle 4 or more times to unload it can't be considered as safe as dumping a magazine and unchambering a round.  The repetition of loading/unloading increases exposure to mechanical failure and human error, not to mention the wear and tear on soft brass cartridges.

[Siskiyou]

I missed the point.  You are right.  I have seen guys jack rounds all over the place, rocks, mud, snow, without any regard.  Softpoint bullets are just that soft.  I have seen a few interesting dents in cases in the past.  Did not look like lube dents from reloading.  Maybe a rock dent?  

Normally those guys who jack rounds all over the place learn better or are not invited back.  They have seen to many movies and lack good arms training.

Siskiyou

[kevin.303]

even detachable clips are not always safe as i have a story much like roberts but not as serious.last summer i was putting a way my .303. dropped the clip and opened the bolt an when nothing ejected i was stupid enough to assume the chamber was empty. n in my second stupid move i decided i would just ease the hammer down and let of the pressure.well it's the same ole story and BANG a 180 grain ballistic tip plowed through the old beer fridge in my parents basement. lucky for me it was old ammo and had lost some of its power. the extractor had broken and i never thought to stick my pinkie in the chamber to check if it was loaded. every day i still thank god that no one was hurt. some times it takes an accident like this to make us more aware of how dangerous they really are.

[John Traveler]

You Canadians are something else! (smile)

That has to be the most unusual way I've ever heard of for killing a beer.

I've traveled throught Canada so much I feel like a Canadian, and haven't tried it that way yet!

[kevin.303]

it was an old dominon round.what hapened was the bullet went through the ceiling and left 2 inch entrace hole in side. it passed through a fruit crisper and some tupperware but it was a 4 litre milk jug that stopped the slug. we patched the holes with jb weld and the fridge still works!!

[John Traveler]

Hey!

What is the current status of the mandatory Federal gun registration?

Can i as a vistor to Canada still purchase antique firearms without an FAC?