Author Topic: Question on pop can mortar (Read 2316 times)

lv shooter · « **on:** September 10, 2004, 02:47:23 AM »

Hi, I'm new to cannon and mortar shooting, I want to buy a mortar, I'm thinking about one that shoots pop cans, the one I am looking at has a bore diameter of 2.75", would this have too much windage for a pop can?

Double D · « **Reply #1 on:** September 10, 2004, 03:00:12 AM »

That should be fine!

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #2 on:** September 11, 2004, 02:00:46 AM »

Let me draw a few comparisons. I make mine at 2.65" ID.

2.75 allows more room for fowling. 2.65 NEEDS to be swabbed between rounds.

2.75 is safer. There's nothing more fun than getting a can stuck half-way in when loading.

2.65 will get just a little more range for same powder charge IF the bore is VERY short. The bores on mine are just as long as the soda-can. If the bore is 1-1/2 to two soda cans long, you won't be able to tell the difference.

lv shooter · « **Reply #3 on:** September 11, 2004, 03:29:22 AM »

I haven't bought one yet but i'm looking at a couple different ones, one has a bore dia. of 2.75" and one is 2 5/8". I will mainly be shooting soda cans filled with concrete but I might want to shoot lead balls, does someone make a mold for the 2 5'8" bore. also one is machiened out of a solid piece of material and one has a liner and is cast i bronze. here are the two I'm looking at, what do you think?
http://www.wildimports.com/new_page_61.htm
http://www.brasswithclass.com/photogallery.php?dir=mortars
What do you use to swab the bore? Thanks for the help

Double D · « **Reply #4 on:** September 11, 2004, 05:00:28 AM »

I like both!

The Bronze mortar is neat looking. but ask questions. Steel liner, seamed or seamless. Seamed steer clear. I don't see mention of Powder chamber size, or that it even has a powder chamber. reccomend powder charges seem a little on the heavy side. Also you should ask what the carrige is made from. Looks like a soft wood that has been burned iwth a torch. I have some questions in my mind about strength or least durability of soft wood carriages at least in the dimensions shown.

The all steel tube appeals to me, simply becasue it avoids all the problems of a cast cannons. Questions to be asked. Is the bore reamed and polished. The website doesn't offer much in the way of dimensions of the mortar but he does sell moulds. The only down side that I can see is that he is in Canada. You need to ask how he handles exports from Canada and imports into the U.S.

lv shooter · « **Reply #5 on:** September 11, 2004, 05:58:06 AM »

I am leaning toward the steel one also. I talked to the guy from canada yesterday who sells em, he told me that the bore dia. was 2 5/8' and the powder chamber was 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 dia. (he wasn't sure). I will call him on monday to ask if any shipping problems. How far and high do you think this would shoot a pop can full of concrete? Thanks

Double D · « **Reply #6 on:** September 11, 2004, 06:18:04 AM »

High and far are boring! Low and close are exciting!!!!

Max charge is 300grs for 1 1/4

lv shooter · « **Reply #7 on:** September 11, 2004, 07:00:19 AM »

300 grns of what king of powder? thanks

Blaster · « **Reply #8 on:** September 11, 2004, 07:31:13 AM »

Just as information, since Wild Imports has been mentioned here, thought that I may mention here that they have advised me that they plan to be set up with their cannon/mortar items at the next big Wannamacher Tulsa Gun Show October 23 & 24th. I believe they had most of their models on hand and in stock at the last show and they sold quite a few of them. There was always a bunch of spectators/buyers surrounding their tables and was usually rather difficult to get close enough to see everything. I'm still kinda interested in their "coffee can" size mortar but certainly want to see if the liner is seamless or not. I have been totally impressed that the seamless liner is the ONLY way to go. Their carriages did look a little on the skimpy side but looks may be deceiving. Also, their cannon ball moulds did really seem on the lite side but they did sell them. I recently acquired a fishing sinker mould that will cast two pound round ball but these are just a tad too large for my largest cannon. However, they are a nice fit with ample windage for one of my mortars. Man, that aluminum mould does get HOT and stays hot for a long time. It's a double cavity mould and casting is quite slow. Blaster (Bob in CO)

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #9 on:** September 11, 2004, 03:20:49 PM »

Quote from: lv shooter

How far and high do you think this would shoot a pop can full of concrete? Thanks

Range is affected by LENGTH of the tube as much as amount of powder and windage. Longer tubes make very efficient use of powder.

Double D · « **Reply #10 on:** September 11, 2004, 06:02:35 PM »

Use FG or Cannon Grade nothing finer.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #11 on:** September 12, 2004, 02:13:06 AM »

Quote from: Double D

Use FG or Cannon Grade nothing finer.

Excellent advice.

Anyone RECOMMENDING anyting finer I consider the recommendation to be a parallel to Kadafi's remark about Sadam (just before the first war), "This guy is on his own."

To use a finer powder, YOU are doing two things: INCREASING both the pressure and risk.

lv shooter · « **Reply #12 on:** September 12, 2004, 10:49:28 AM »

I've been reading a lot about people putting concrete in pop or beer cans to shoot out of their mortar, Has anyone tried putting damp masonry sand , dry flour or lime, or even filling the pop can with lead? (Would pop can work as a lead mold?) This is getting exciting. Thanks for all the great responses so far. Buy the way I live in Las Vegas NV. does anyone know if they have any mortar or cannon shoots around here?

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #13 on:** September 12, 2004, 12:55:25 PM »

I've done sand and wet sand. Works ok. Cement is more convenient.

My first fillings were with water. As you increase the charge from very light to moderate the hydraulic pressure presses out the sides and you'll see scrape marks and split sides. Not recommended, but a good indicator of pressure. I wouldn't dare try a heavy charge under a can of water.

SLEEPY BEEPER · « **Reply #14 on:** September 13, 2004, 07:24:51 AM »

Forget about filling cans with lead. It produces projectiles that are to heavy. Unless you have a 300 lb. mortar. There is no benefit to lead over cement, other the breaking you mortar base. I tried.

Double D · « **Reply #15 on:** September 13, 2004, 07:52:09 AM »

I built a mould dimensioned from an airgun pellet for my pop can mortar. The slug weight 7 1/2 pounds. Result broke two 2x6 white oak side transoms completely in two from the 6 inch side.

Of course that was in the days before Ii knew you determined the powder charge from the diameter of the powder chamber in the mortar and not the bore. Using the old formula of 2 ozs per inch. Roughly 2300 grs of FG.

Max load should have been 230 grs.

Never did see that slug go or see where it went.

lv shooter · « **Reply #16 on:** September 13, 2004, 11:09:20 AM »

Good info thanks>

lv shooter · « **Reply #17 on:** September 18, 2004, 08:11:10 AM »

Should get my mortar by next weekend. I just got done filling some pop cans with mortar mix, In some of em I cast in 1 1/2" of road flare, and in a couple other I cast in (about 1 1/2") a firecracker (with the cannon fuse sticking out of the cast concrete). Do you think these will work?Am I pushing the limit? Thanks

Double D · « **Reply #18 on:** September 18, 2004, 08:22:30 AM »

I wouldn't stick either one of the cans in my mortar with out some serious pre tests.

First the road flare. My guess is it won't light in the cannon. But do this. Set a can out on the ground. pour powder equivalant to your charge on the can over the flare. Ad a long length of cannon fuse. light the fuse and get back. What happens?

2nd the firecracker. I think this is going to be a disappoint also. Set a can on the ground and light the fuse and get back.

I also think that both of these projectiles fall in a gray arrea and are getting pretty close to falling under the description of destructive devices. Partucularly if these things burst.

Make sure you report back to us the results.

lv shooter · « **Reply #19 on:** September 18, 2004, 08:34:50 AM »

Thanks for the great advise. I'll report back with my findings.

wallyW · « **Reply #20 on:** September 20, 2004, 03:09:26 PM »

heres how it works ,a loose fiting, Beercan dont make use good of the powder,so 2.625 is about the limit i would use , the pressure build dont happen if to loose ,the cans measure an average of 2.600,- 2.604, and some cans 2.595, most all come in at 2.600,, the barrels i use are dom seamless , I,D, is 2.620 + - .002 with app.250 wall thickness, and all have a powderchamber, the can has to have weight or it will just spit out of the tube ( the more weight the longer the can is in the barrel and the pressure build get greater, i use course builders sand and water the load is app 2 pounds, 150-160 grains RS pyrodex, the barrel length is 4 ft on one , and will shoot twice as far as the 26 inch barrel on the same charge, i use a windage gauge made from the barrel material, that has been sprayed with 10 or more coatings of plastic spray paint to reduce the ID, so what ever passes thru it will be a good fit in the mortar, just a tad to tight it will not be good for the tube ,the can hangs up in the middle of the bore and toooooooo much pressure is built to fast and can burst the barrel same as any other cannon, the tighter the can fits the barrel the more you have to swab tween shots,( iuse a 99cent bowl brush from walmart just the right size with a long piece of pvc for a handle) but less powder is spent and there are limits to just how far u can shoot anything , overloading a small thin wall mortar OR any Other CANNON will only lead to not having one, or as they say screw with the bull , get the horns, 16oz cans work well even with less powder, for the guy that wants a trail of smoke and fire from the tail of a beer can , you could try a bit of elmers carpenters glue in the hollow spot on the bottom of the can and coat it with some road flare, just dont get it wet, to make sure it ignites really well coat the flare with a lil dab of Bp, it may SET the woods on fire,, hope this answers a few q's

lv shooter · « **Reply #21 on:** September 25, 2004, 04:03:40 PM »

Should I bring some bore cleaning supplies with me when I go shoot, my mortar or clean it when I get home? How do you clean out the bore, Do you use some sort of solvent or soap and water? Thanks

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #22 on:** September 25, 2004, 04:23:59 PM »

I clean them by hosing them off outside, brushing with a bristle brush and hosing off again.

Hot soapy water works wonders. Heating the metal helps dry them off.

Use a small bore cleaning brush in the fuse vent hole.

On some (long bores) I use a 2 to 3" diameter brush with wire shaft and wooden handle (probably a radiator brush).

OIL immediately. Rust will be there in the morning or sooner if you don't.

(the 4.5" on the left is industrial hard chrome plated - I got lazy & I don't like moving the bore and trunion (103 lbs) around.)

At the range having a roll of paper towels around helps - and a trash bag. The soot, sulfer and grunge has a strong oder that normal people don't appreciate. Usually penetrates the hands enough to linger through a dozen washings over 2 days.

lv shooter · « **Reply #23 on:** September 29, 2004, 04:11:20 PM »

Got my mortar today. The powder chamber seems kind of small (1"dia ,1"deep) I can only fit about 200 grains of 1f powder in it. Is this ok? The bore dia. is 2 5/8", length is 5". thanks

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #24 on:** September 29, 2004, 04:18:18 PM »

I've made a few with just such a powder chamber - did it to limit powder and hence liability.

More powder, more pressure. What material is the tube made from? How thick are the walls & how much steel (or iron) around the powder chamber. These are the questions of design and hence strength that will give you the answer of how safe it will be.

Double D · « **Reply #25 on:** September 29, 2004, 05:08:10 PM »

Per the chart your MAX load is 180 gr.

lv shooter · « **Reply #26 on:** October 01, 2004, 04:37:28 PM »

Well the testing has begun, The pop cans full of concrete are great, one went about 200 yards out. The road flare did not lite, I haven't tried the firecracker ones yet. I really want a blank load thats loud like when i shoot a pop can full of concrete, I tried putting some home insulation in the barrel (I packed it in pretty good) but it only sounded like a gay fart. Any ideas, Thanks :lol:

Double D · « **Reply #27 on:** October 01, 2004, 05:25:17 PM »

Mortars have a short barrel and don't make great bangs, be saitisfied with a nice thump! A thump that you feel not hear!

Get a cannon for a nice bang!

lv shooter · « **Reply #28 on:** October 02, 2004, 01:59:56 AM »

I shot some plactic water bottele full of water last night , they worked pretty good.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #29 on:** October 02, 2004, 02:08:08 AM »

If you can find the ones you've fired, check the sides to see the effect of scraping. The more pressure underneith, the more hydraulic pressure presses the sides out to the tube. There is point where, with alluinum cans where the can will split. Don't know about plastic, but too much pressure to the outside would create a bunch of resistance and hence more pressure below the round.