PLAINS RIFLES

[D.E.C]

I AM GOING TO BE BUILDING A GPR FLINT KIT SOON. DID MOST PLAINS RIFLES HAVE BLUE OR BROWN BARRELS?

[Bridger]

All of the original Hawkens and other Plains rifles I have seen have had brown barrels. It also looks a lot better in my opinion and its something you can do yourself and get good results. Not only the barrel but all other metal parts- trigger guard, trigger plate, buttplate and nose cap should be browned as well. While you're at it, I'd take off the case hardening and brown the lock as well.

[D.E.C]

THAT,S WHAT I THOUGHT. PLAN ON BROWNING ALL STEEL, HADN,T THOUGHT OF THE LOCK THOUGH. WHAT'S THE EASIST WAY TO REMOVE CASE HARDENING?

[Bridger]

The case hardening will come right off if you wipe it with some Birchwood Casey Blueing remover. The GPR kit is a nice kit to do and you end up with a very good rifle besides. I've used Laurel Mountain's browning solution and had good results.

[D.E.C]

I WAS JUST READING ABOUT BIRCH CASEY BLUING REMOVER IN THE DGW CATALOG. IS BIRCH PLUM BROWN ANY GOOD? I LIVE ABOUT A 1\2 MILE FROM CABELAS AND ITS REAL CONVIENENT. THANKS.

[Naphtali]

D.E.C.:

I hope I got to you before you bought the GPR kit.

Lyman's flintlock — the lock — is exceptionally poorly designed. Nothing you can do to the lock will render it satisfactory. Although the same design is basis for the cap lock, it function acceptably.

If you are left-hand shooter, there is no replacement lock available.

If you are right-handed, L & R Lock Company makes a first-quality replacement lock. It is remarkably similar to their "Late English" flintlock. The downside is the lock adds about $120 to the cost of your kit.

If you require particulars beyond what I've included, ask. I'll do my best to respond.

[Winter Hawk]

Ah Naphtali, you got burned, but that don't tar all the Lyman flintlocks black!  Mine has been real reliable.  It is a dead ringer for the one I had on my T-C Pennsylvania Hunter.  In fact, a lot of folks put the Lyman frizzen on their T-Cs to improve the spark.  I remember that you had a very bad experience with yours, and from what I have seen Lyman's customer service is terrible (I say this from personal experience).  But I am very satisfied with my GPR and would not hesitate to recommend it to anyone.

-WH-

[Naphtali]

Winter Hawk:

We must be discussing different "Lyman" business entities. I received excellent customer service. After cataloguing problems with the GPR flintlock, and having compared the lock work of the L-H GPR flintlock with my L & R "Late English" locks, and Durs Egg, and John Bailes flintlocks, I requested Lyman not bother to try repairing. Rather I requested a cap lock replacement albeit in different .54-caliber.

I received no feedback on the progress of the order. And that was unnerving. I thought I had fallen through the crack.

But I received a .54-caliber GPR L-H cap lock. The difference between the rifles in quality control is startling. The cap lock is as well assembled as the flintlock was not.

Assembly, though is only part of the problem. I reiterate: look at the design. It is the reverse of conventional designs. Cap locks were derived from flintlocks. Lyman's flintlock was derived from its cap lock. Design features needed for long-term durability and re lability are absent, absent because cap locks function without them. And so will flintlocks . . . for a while.

A friend bought a R-H flintlock kit, and an L & R replacement flintlock. His rifle -- he is a fine craftsman -- is yet an order of magnitude above my .54-caliber.

So the GPR R-H can be made into a beautiful flintlock rifle. But the out-of-pocket cost will bring the kit to about $650–700, including finishing items. What is not included in the price is your time. Since this is a hobby, you probably will not count this as "money." But if you aren't careful, the cost to fix your mediocre job must be counted -- either as "money" or as dissatisfaction.
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D.E.C. You can profit from my experience or not. Makes me no never mind.

[D.E.C]

GENTLEMEN, I THANK YOU FOR THE INFO. IF MY GPR,(I ORDERED IT LAST WEEK), HAS A BAD LOCK I AM CAPABLE OF REPLACING IT AND NOW I KNOW WHICH LOCK TO GET, IF NEEDED. ANY OPINIONS ON BIRCH WOOD CASEY PLUM BROWN SOLUTION? THIS IS A HOBBY, I DON'T MIND WORKING ON GUNS. CAN'T RIDE THE BIKE IN THE SNOW.

[Bridger]

Plum Brown is a "hot brown" and the problem is getting even heat on all the surfaces. Works good on small parts but barrels could be a problem. Something like Laurel Mountain is a cold brown solution and probably easier to use.

[clodbuster]

D. E. C.  Two things to share. I have tried to reblue casehardened parts without any good results.  It just turns a dull gray.  Don"t know how browning chemicals will react for sure but am going to venture a guess that you won't get good rusting.  Have used both cold and hot browning chemicals with consistent good results.  It depends on what color u like best.  The metal being browned has much to do with the results so don't get frustrated if it doesn"t turn out the first time.  Just card it off and start again.  The cold process takes much longer with many many treatments required for solid color but I think it's more durable than BC plum browning.  Has anyone ever tried logwood to finish gun metal.  I hear it gives a pleasing silvery gray like the finish on the new ruger super revolvers.  May just have to get a new kit to try it on.

[Birddog6]

I have had a .54 cal. GPR flintlock for years & have shot Thousands of shots thru it & it has never failed me, never been a problem & it is still on the original frizzen. In fact, the only thing I have changed on this rifle is flints when they wear out.

Lets keep in mind this is a $ 300 rifle & the Lock in it is not the quality you may get from a company that builds locks & sells them.  However, for a $300. rifle I don't think ya can beat it & IMHO it is the best buy for the money on a low priced RB rifle in percussion or flintlick.

As for putting a L&R replacement on it, no, I wouldn't.  First because L&R makes it & second because you probably won't need it so why put another 1/3 of the cost of the rifle in it.  It is a $300 rifle, accept it for what it is, learn to make it work & have fun with it.  There are thousands of them out there being shot & the locks are working fine.   No, the lock is not as smooth & fast as a Deluxe Chambers Siler, no the trigger is not as smooth as a Davis double set trigger, but again, it is what it is, a  low priced mass produced ML.  :-)

Oh, and I would brown it also.

[D.E.C]

GENTLEMEN, GOING TO BROWN IT WITH LAUREL MOUNTAIN COLD BROWN. GOING TO TRY BROWNING A LOCK ON A CABELA KENTUCKY PERCUSSION RIFLE, ( NOT REAL AUTHENTIC BUT A GOOD SHOOTER). ONLY GOING TO REPLACE GPR LOCK IF I HAVE PROBLEMS. THANKS

[filmokentucky]

True casehardening is a heat treatment process. To remove it you would have to follow a proper procedure to soften the metal. Long after the colors have disappeared the hard shell remains. Bluing won't work on this surface.
   To harden and soften steels in this fashion is a true art form and that is why folks like Doug Turnbull make a living at it. And if you've ever seen his work, you know that it is worth every penny-and some more as well.

[lostid]

Don't worry D.E.C.,,your doing just fine. LMF is a good easy to work with browning solution,,it does like lot's of moisture to work well/ or as fast as they say,,but you'll not ruin anything beyond having to "start again". lay off the steel wool, and just "card" with a damp cloth.. the lock won't take it the same because of that "case hardned" thing folks are talking of,,but practice and experiance is the best teacher,
 don't fret,,yer not going to "wreck" nothin,,we'er here ta help

luck too ya,best wishes