Author Topic: Paper Cartriges? (Read 1779 times)

henry1 · « **on:** September 15, 2004, 03:33:46 AM »

Just wondering: I heard that you can make Paper Cartriges. How do you do this, is it hard. Do you have to buy other stuff to make them. I am totally new to this so hunmer me if you can. Thanks guys.

willysjeep134 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 15, 2004, 05:17:07 PM »

Yeah, you can sure make paper cartriges. You can use cigarette papers and something like a sharpie marker for a rolling form. Just roll up the paper in a tube around the ball, add your selected powder charge and fold the tail end over. Many people prefer to tear the cartriges open and load them separately. I have only made a few of them, so I'm no expert. I have shot them just by loading the whole cartrige and capping the cylinder, but the more experienced cartrige shooters tell me you have to pierce the paper after you load it to get it to go off more reliably.

If you want to make paper cartriges for single shooters you can even use regular grocery bag paper. Roll a tube of brown paper around a mould like a big magic marker and glue the edge shut. FOld one end over and glue it. Now slide the tube off the marker and drop a bullet, some buckshot, or birdshot in the tube. Depending on the projectile and gun you can add wadding here. Now add powder and fold the back end over. These cartriges must be torn open to load. You can keep the wadding and shot together with a little care in tearing open the paper. The paper can be used for wadding too, but be sure to stomp out smouldering paper wads ASAP. These are the type I load for my smoothbore .69 flintlock pistol.

henry1 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 15, 2004, 06:15:48 PM »

Cool man, thanks for the info, I am gona try it in my 50 cal cap lock trapper. That sounds like a neat thing to try. Thanks again.

Oh ya, Can i try this in a muzzle loader I have a TC Renegade caplock in 54 cal. I think that I will try the paper bag method.

willysjeep134 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 17, 2004, 06:26:52 AM »

The only problem you might run into with a rifle is the paper not being suficiently thick to patch the ball with. These cartriges were made usually to work with a) a cap and ball revolver wich sizes the ball when it is seated, b) a rifle shooting minie' bullets that expand to fit the bore when fired, or c) a smoothbore which doesn't depend only on a tight patch for accuracy.

What I would sugjest is that you get a caliper and figure out how thick the paper you will use is, and then select a ball big enough to make a descent fit with the paper as a patch, if you wanted them to shoot as accurately as a patched round ball. For instance; I have a .50 caplock. Normally I shoot .490 balls with a cloth patch. With a paper patch I would guess that the same .490 balls would be a little loose. I might try .495 balls if I could get them.

Also, you may also want to consider using something like a cotton ball soaked in bore butter or lard in the cartrige as a lubricant/wad. Without a lube, and with nothing but paper as a pacth I would think fouling would be more of a problem.

Then again they might work fine with a normal size ball and paper as a patch. Just to be safe I would recomend you start out with a lighter than normal load for your rifle and work it up to what you desire. I have no clue how the addition of wadding or diferent patching would change the pressure inside a rifle shooting a heavy charge.

Have fun and tell me how they turn out.

henry1 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 17, 2004, 11:15:24 AM »

Alright, i just might give that a try when i get time. thanks for all off your info, you were very helpful thanks again. Henry.

Naphtali · « **Reply #5 on:** September 19, 2004, 04:25:24 AM »

henry1:

Since you queried a revolver forum, are you asking about combustible paper cartridges?

henry1 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 20, 2004, 05:04:54 PM »

Um, Um, I dont know what queried or what that word is but I just wanted some info on the subject. Somday i would like to own a cap and ball revolver but all i got now is a muzzleloading pistol (traditions trapper) and a muzzleloading rifle (TC Renegade) Both are caplock and i was wondering if the paper type cartridge would work in them or if they would only work in cap and ball. like i said no knowlege goes to waste here cause some day I will own a cap and ball. but right now thats all i got. thanks. I hope that answard your question? but what is queried (SP) and combustable?

filmokentucky · « **Reply #7 on:** September 20, 2004, 06:11:13 PM »

"Queried" is just another way of saying you asked a question. Combustible
cartridges are paper cartridges that are consumed upon ignition of the powder charge. They work best in C&B revolvers and smooth bore pistols and long arms. I don't know of anyone who uses them in rifles as the rifling tends to tear them up when they are loaded. The paper doesn't work well as a patching medium in a muzzle-loading rifle for this reason. I
tried it years ago but quickly gave up on it as accuracy was unobtainable
with a ball.

henry1 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 27, 2004, 03:44:21 AM »

Oh, ok I understand now. Thanks for exlpaining. I dont think that I will mess with it either. I could probably load my bp just as fast without using a paper cartrige. Thanks a bunch for the info.

flamenblaster · « **Reply #9 on:** March 16, 2005, 03:40:01 AM »

Thanks Willys for the tip about the sharpies...i just recently tried making them and they work great..a lil rolling paper wrapped around a fine point sharpie..glue the ball in the end and let dry..first time i just forced them in and had delayed fire..tore the end off and poured the powder in then compressed the paper under the ball..(still smeared a lil grease on top though).. much easier out in the woods..got more shots off and only wished i'd made more!...I love to experiment and am having so much fun ive been out shooting 7 times in the last month or so since i got my first c&b....not so easy since i live in an apartment (not APART enough for me :x close to seattle and have to drive an hour to get out where i can shoot

Thanks All :grin:

Singing Bear · « **Reply #10 on:** March 16, 2005, 07:19:43 AM »

Just something to watch for when using paper cartridges without wads or lube out of a revolver. Some cylinder chambers may be out of round or the chamber mouths may not be true. When the ball is seated, this condition leaves gaps that light can be seen coming through. This also allows sparks in and chain fires can occur. Been there. The use of wads between the powder and paper/ball took care of that right quick.

I have 6 revolvers of various mfrs. that will shoot fine with plain paper cartridges. No light around seated balls coming through. 4 recently acquired revolvers of different makes had chainfires and chambers or chamber mouths that were not true. Big gaps around the seated balls.

I use 375 for the 36's and 454 for 44's. Larger balls will not work as the chamber mouths seem to be the culprit. No matter what size you use, the chamber mouths will size them down the same.

To check for this problem, remove the nipples, seat balls in each chamber, then while holding a pen light to the chamber mouths look into the chamber through the nipple end. If the chamber or mouth is not true, you will see light coming through the gaps between the ball and chamber walls.

You can get a smith to fix this easy, but the quickest and cheapest way is to use dry or lubed wads.

Dalton Masterson · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2005, 12:37:53 PM »

http://www.frontierspot.org/viewtopic.php?t=26413
Check this site out. I have personally seen his stuff and they are excellent. His instructions are top notch and will work. Good luck. DM

ribbonstone · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2005, 02:41:07 PM »

Am sure people in the past discovered this as well, but for me it was by suggestion of a friend watching me stuggle to load a paper cartridge in a cap-and-ball revolver. His suggestion was, "Why not make them tapered?..you look like you're fighting to put a square peg in a round hole."

So put the wooden down form in a drill and tapered the rear section down to .40".

The local tobacco shop owner must think I'm a big dope smoker...that could be a problem in a small town...but the rolling papers (esp. the double wide versions, but can put two normal ones togeter to get your width) are nitrated, thin, easily torn, and pre-glued. Once made and dry, will dip the ball in thick lube, but can build them with a wad under the ball if you've the urge.

Will just poke the end with a sharp point (some front sights work just fine for this), trickle in a few grains, and ram it on home.

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #13 on:** April 06, 2006, 04:54:30 PM »

The ones I make, and great instructions with illustrations, can be found at;

<www.thehighroad.org > Tools and Technologies > Blackpowder Shooting > Paper Cartridges, Step by Step photos..

The Author is "timuchin".

Third_Rail · « **Reply #14 on:** April 26, 2006, 02:31:41 PM »

I too make timuchin's paper cartridges - I use them in my 1861 revolver.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=144094